"Resolve is broken" challenge

[TUXs]

Never played WoW, DCUO, or Rift?

Nope. The rest of your reply was just excuse making for a crap system.

[Cruxe]

As I've stated earlier in this thread, something being "broken", doesn't mean it isn't working as intended, being "broken" can be as simple as something not being clear to understand by the people who will be impacted by it. Resolve, IMO, fits into the 'misunderstood so much that it's a failed/broken system' category.

 

 

I have this as a bookmark, but just to see how easy it is to find I googled 'swtor how does resolve work'. Took me all of 5 seconds to find.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/understanding-swtors-resolve-mechanic/

 

 

 

Again, resolve is only misunderstood by those who refuse to put in the incredibly small amount of time required to learn how it works. And you will notice that this information has been available since early January, less than a month after release.

 

And the definition of broken is 'not working properly.' You can't change the english language just to fit your argument.

[Kaarsa]

I've never played an MMO where CC's were THIS dominant in PvP.

 

 

Can I ask what MMOs have you played then? I am always looking for new experiences and my personal experience is that in every single MMO I have played there was a lot of CC, so I dont feel SW TOR as a game with abundance of CC, in fact I feel there is less CC here then in some other games (WoW, Requiem, L2 comes to mind). Basicaly only MMO I played that didnt have a lot of CC was Dekaron and it was not something I would call a best MMO ever;)

[Scoobings]

Nope. The rest of your reply was just excuse making for a crap system.

 

A "cap system" is your opinion. I like games that heavily punish mistakes because it makes for a challenge and better players.

 

I'm sorry you are having such a negative experience with the game. Maybe there is a better system out there but don't pretend like you know anything about the impact this system is having on the game. Unless you have access to data I don't, you know as little as I do about the numbers of subscribers and why they left.

 

You're basing your assumption off of forum whiners and if we are to believe them, this game died 2 months ago and EA is bankrupt. So, like the other person responding to you, it's all opinion.

 

The fact is, you are completely out of touch with modern MMOs as you yourself admitted to when you said you never played WoW or Rift. So if you don't like the direction MMOs are headed in that sucks but it is a direction that people like for the reasons I've mentioned. Er... excuse me, my "excuses."

[Hyfy]

How is it broken? Resolve accumulates through stuns until a point where it prevents further stuns until it drains. It is doing this right now, so how can it be broken?

 

How is it misleading? Resolve is affected by stuns, not snare or roots. This is what it is currently doing. How can it be misleading?

 

 

The only people mislead by Resolve are the people who never took the time to actually learn how it worked in the first place and assume that it should prevent snares and roots. It was never intended to, therefore when it doesn't it can't be said to be broken.

 

If you want resolve to be changed, fine. In your opinion it isn't doing enough, you have every right to ask it be changed. In my opinion you're wrong, but that doesn't mean you don't have the right to complain. To say that it is broken, however, is clearly false.

 

That would be well and fine if it was preventing the stuns after the fact and what a lot of people have been saying is it is NOT preventing the stuns as your resolve is still ticking down.

[Cruxe]

That would be well and fine if it was preventing the stuns after the fact and what a lot of people have been saying is it is NOT preventing the stuns as your resolve is still ticking down.

 

And those people are wrong. If such a thing was occurring it would be a problem, but it isn't, so it's not.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Cruxe

[TUXs]

Can I ask what MMOs have you played then?

 

Of course you can. CoH/V, lotro, APB, SWG, STO, AoC, as well as several others, some for longer than others.

 

I'm not arguing that some games are worse than this, but THIS is by far the WORST I have played.

 

I have this as a bookmark, but just to see how easy it is to find I googled 'swtor how does resolve work'. Took me all of 5 seconds to find.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/understanding-swtors-resolve-mechanic/

 

 

 

Again, resolve is only misunderstood by those who refuse to put in the incredibly small amount of time required to learn how it works. And you will notice that this information has been available since early January, less than a month after release.

 

And the definition of broken is 'not working properly.' You can't change the english language just to fit your argument.

 

Wait...you directed me to a PLAYER account of how it works? No lol. That's no different than you saying it works fine.

 

Please direct me to somewhere that BIOWARE has stated exactly what should and shouldn't be effected by Resolve. As I said, I'm sure it's easy to find, you seem so defensive of the current system that I'm sure you can provide me with a link detailing the developers intent. I just want to read what you have.

Not working properly is exactly how quite a few of us would describe Resolve.

[Hyfy]

And those people are wrong. If such a thing was occurring it would be a problem, but it isn't, so it's not.

 

Except for when it IS happening. I had this argument in another thread. I have seen it happen. I have had it happen to me on numerous occasions. I've had it fill, used my break, watched it start to tick down and again get stunned. And not just a oh look my feet can't move im rooted, but a "hey look my body is writhing with a purple lightning and I can't throw the ball move attack or anything else even remotely productive." So yes it is a problem.

[Kaarsa]

Of course you can. CoH/V, lotro, APB, SWG, STO, AoC, as well as several others, some for longer than others.

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong (especially since I have never played any of those you mentioned - to be honest I dont even recognize what STO mean) but those games are not famous for having a great pvp experience, am I right?

 

Not working properly is exactly how quite a few of us would describe Resolve.

 

Since you admit that you dont know developer intents on resolve system, how can you say it is working properly or not? I understand you dont like it, but using words like "broken" or "not working properly" or "not working as intented" (from your "show me developer post how resolve should work" standpoint, which I disagree with, in my opinion it is fairly obvious what are resolve purposes and how it is working) is not something that, IMO, should be done.

[TUXs]

A "cap system" is your opinion. I like games that heavily punish mistakes because it makes for a challenge and better players.

 

I'm sorry you are having such a negative experience with the game. Maybe there is a better system out there but don't pretend like you know anything about the impact this system is having on the game. Unless you have access to data I don't, you know as little as I do about the numbers of subscribers and why they left.

 

You're basing your assumption off of forum whiners and if we are to believe them, this game died 2 months ago and EA is bankrupt. So, like the other person responding to you, it's all opinion.

 

The fact is, you are completely out of touch with modern MMOs as you yourself admitted to when you said you never played WoW or Rift. So if you don't like the direction MMOs are headed in that sucks but it is a direction that people like for the reasons I've mentioned. Er... excuse me, my "excuses."

 

I'm basing my opinion on the players I play with. I have a very healthy sized and active guild - a number of the people in it have come from dying servers or other dying guilds.

 

Don't assume I give the trolls here any more credit than I do your own warped and arrogant attitude, I don't.

 

I'm sorry you feel I'm out of touch for not playing 2 MMOs of the exact same fantasy type that I despise, my kids played both however, does that make me credible?!

[Maladon]

The problem with CC in this game is the same problem that Rift had. CC isn't tactical, it's too "available". In a team setting there is no real penalty for casting CC at the wrong time unless it pushes the resolve bar to full. CC should always be tactical, it should make or break a fight. Right now we're missing the "break" part because poor use of CC isn't punished in most cases (huttball being the only real instance where a mis-timed CC has consequences).

 

As is stands now any drooling ****wit can CC a target as part of a standard rotation with no tactical considerations at all. I'd prefer a better system than that.

[TUXs]

Correct me if I am wrong (especially since I have never played any of those you mentioned - to be honest I dont even recognize what STO mean) but those games are not famous for having a great pvp experience, am I right?

 

 

 

Since you admit that you dont know developer intents on resolve system, how can you say it is working properly or not? I understand you dont like it, but using words like "broken" or "not working properly" or "not working as intented" (from your "show me developer post how resolve should work" standpoint, which I disagree with, in my opinion it is fairly obvious what are resolve purposes and how it is working) is not something that, IMO, should be done.

 

STO=Star Trek Online. Uh...all of those games had PvP, some were exclusively PvP. The majority of my time playing any of those games was spent PvPing. lotro actually had one of the worst, yet best, systems of them all.

 

 

So wait though...you want us to prove it's not broken, yet you can't even find a post or developer blog somewhere stating what YOU believe to be working is actually true!? So...how can you claim it's working, when you have no proof?! I'm lost...you really don't have a link to exactly how the system is intended to work??

 

If that's true...doesn't that mean that your "it's working as intended" is really nothing more than your assumptions?

 

Dude...really?!

[Scoobings]

I'm basing my opinion on the players I play with. I have a very healthy sized and active guild - a number of the people in it have come from dying servers or other dying guilds.

 

Don't assume I give the trolls here any more credit than I do your own warped and arrogant attitude, I don't.

 

I'm sorry you feel I'm out of touch for not playing 2 MMOs of the exact same fantasy type that I despise, my kids played both however, does that make me credible?!

 

I'm not attacking your credibility I'm saying your opinion is... opinion. You make claims like it's detrimental to the game and destroying the player base when there's no possible way you could know that.

 

I don't see how that's warped and arrogant. If you have any data at all that backs up what you're saying aside from anecdotal "my guild says so" then please do.

 

There are dying servers for sure and this game has it's fair share of issues I just don't think CC is one of them.

 

Also, on a side note, you mention SWG but that game had infinitely more CC than this one. Bounty hunter dizzy much? That didn't even have a cooldown.

 

In fairness, I did quit that game before the combat revamp but when I played pvp in that game was a fight for "who can apply dizzy first and make them change stances."

[Scoobings]

STO=Star Trek Online. Uh...all of those games had PvP, some were exclusively PvP. The majority of my time playing any of those games was spent PvPing. lotro actually had one of the worst, yet best, systems of them all.

 

 

So wait though...you want us to prove it's not broken, yet you can't even find a post or developer blog somewhere stating what YOU believe to be working is actually true!? So...how can you claim it's working, when you have no proof?! I'm lost...you really don't have a link to exactly how the system is intended to work??

 

If that's true...doesn't that mean that your "it's working as intended" is really nothing more than your assumptions?

 

Dude...really?!

 

Generally the way basic mechanics in games work is that we assume they are "working as intended" unless a developer says otherwise.

 

When we have a developer cite to us that "whoops roots and snares should have been affected by resolve this whole time." Then we will know the system isn't working as intended, but until that happens we have no choice but to make the assumption that this is what they intended.

 

As for being stunned while resolve is full, we can assume that is not working as intended if it's actually happening because it's in direct conflict with the way resolve functions in a very general way unless there is some kind of pattern to it or method to why it's failing.

 

So while, yes, most of us are making assumptions it's grounded in the rules and the mechanics of the game.

[Smashbrother]

Here is the Q&A about resolve from PAX. Now everyone can **** about resolve being broken. Snares and roots are also never going to be added to resolve so stop asking for it.

 

"Q: A lot of us that PvP have made adjustments to compensate for the resolve system right now. But do you have any plans to make adjustments to it in the future patches. For example in Huttball, we have to carefully learn how to control our stuns so we can keep them in a fire etc. It is also got to a point where even having a completely full resolve bar, I still get rooted or things like that.

 

A: We have two completely off the resolve system effects, those are immobilize and snare effects. The resolve system is designed as a visualized diminishing returns system so the idea is that you can actually see when people are able to be controlled, and that really is the design goal of it. The resolve system is designed to minimalize the amount of time you are stunned, put to sleep, and knocked back so it only provides immunity to knockback/sleep/stun. Snare/slow, root/immobilize are intentionally not using the resolve system because from a combat standpoint we designed these effects to be part of a kiting/anti-kiting game which is completely separate from resolve.

 

Some classes that don’t have the need to establish range or establish closeness requires these abilities as part of their rotation in order to do their damage and be effective. Root/immobilize – stop you from moving. Stun – stop you from acting. Don’t get confused between the two.

 

So to be clear, root/snare/immobilize/slow are not part of the resolve system. They do not build resolve and they are not stopped by resolve. That was by design. We are working on ways to improve the visualization of the resolve system and make it easier to understand."

Edited April 9, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Kaarsa]

 

So wait though...you want us to prove it's not broken, yet you can't even find a post or developer blog somewhere stating what YOU believe to be working is actually true!? So...how can you claim it's working, when you have no proof?! I'm lost...you really don't have a link to exactly how the system is intended to work??

 

If that's true...doesn't that mean that your "it's working as intended" is really nothing more than your assumptions?

 

Dude...really?!

 

Yea, really. First, I want you to prove it is broken, not otherwise (but I believe it is a typo in your post).

 

Then, you cannot prove that something is working well all the time, because someone can always say "but it is not working for me". Proving that it is not working is actually easy - single vid and case closed.

 

I do not base my knowledge about how resolve work on any dev posts, assumptions or whatever - I went and tested it (still havnt fisnished, few thing to do). I think I have a right to say how it is working currently and I claim that you cannot be stunned/mezzed/pulled or knocked back/down with white resolve bar. This is a statement I came to basing on my gameplay, videos I have seen and testing I have made. You can prove that I am not right with a single vid. I cannot prove I am right in any other way but by point out lack of vid that contradicts my statement.

 

Now, I am not the person that started with all this "we dont know how BW intend resolve to work" stuff. I dont think it is important at this point. Using this as an argument is laughable. I know how it is working now and I see a lot of posts claiming that I am wrong. Well, prove me wrong.

[Kaarsa]

Here is the Q&A about resolve from PAX. Now everyone can **** about resolve being broken. Snares and roots are also never going to be added to resolve so stop asking for it.

 

"Q: A lot of us that PvP have made adjustments to compensate for the resolve system right now. But do you have any plans to make adjustments to it in the future patches. For example in Huttball, we have to carefully learn how to control our stuns so we can keep them in a fire etc. It is also got to a point where even having a completely full resolve bar, I still get rooted or things like that.

 

A: We have two completely off the resolve system effects, those are immobilize and snare effects. The resolve system is designed as a visualized diminishing returns system so the idea is that you can actually see when people are able to be controlled, and that really is the design goal of it. The resolve system is designed to minimalize the amount of time you are stunned, put to sleep, and knocked back so it only provides immunity to knockback/sleep/stun. Snare/slow, root/immobilize are intentionally not using the resolve system because from a combat standpoint we designed these effects to be part of a kiting/anti-kiting game which is completely separate from resolve.

 

Some classes that don’t have the need to establish range or establish closeness requires these abilities as part of their rotation in order to do their damage and be effective. Root/immobilize – stop you from moving. Stun – stop you from acting. Don’t get confused between the two.

 

So to be clear, root/snare/immobilize/slow are not part of the resolve system. They do not build resolve and they are not stopped by resolve. That was by design. We are working on ways to improve the visualization of the resolve system and make it easier to understand."

 

Can you provide a link please? I would like to put it into my signature;)

 

PS. I thereby consider you a thread winner *hands a crown*. Keep it nice and shiny, because you will have to give it back when someone will post video with proof that resolve is actualy broken;)

[TUXs]

There are dying servers for sure and this game has it's fair share of issues I just don't think CC is one of them.

 

I do.

 

We both have our opinions on it. I feel mine is more credible because it's mine.

 

I wouldn't be arguing this topic as much as I do if I didn't strongly and passionately believe that the CC system in this game was truly hurting it. I don't just want this game to survive, I want it to THRIVE! I want PvP to be something the game is known for, not despised for.

 

I respect those of you who feel it works as it should, this isn't personal. PLEASE look at the frustration and confusion it causes.

[Smashbrother]

Can you provide a link please? I would like to put it into my signature;)

 

PS. I thereby consider you a thread winner *hands a crown*. Keep it nice and shiny, because you will have to give it back when someone will post video with proof that resolve is actualy broken;)

 

http://dulfy.net/2012/04/07/paxeast-q-a-day-2/

[Smashbrother]

I do.

 

We both have our opinions on it. I feel mine is more credible because it's mine.

 

I wouldn't be arguing this topic as much as I do if I didn't strongly and passionately believe that the CC system in this game was truly hurting it. I don't just want this game to survive, I want it to THRIVE! I want PvP to be something the game is known for, not despised for.

 

I respect those of you who feel it works as it should, this isn't personal. PLEASE look at the frustration and confusion it causes.

 

Only other MMO I played was WoW, and the CC in that game was a million times worse.

[TUXs]

http://dulfy.net/2012/04/07/paxeast-q-a-day-2/

 

Well that sucks.

 

You are correct Kaarsa, Resolve works as Bioware wants it to.

 

I strongly disagree with it and will continue to push for change, but you are correct.

[Kaarsa]

Well that sucks.

 

You are correct Kaarsa, Resolve works as Bioware wants it to.

 

I strongly disagree with it and will continue to push for change, but you are correct.

 

Thank you. I hope you will manage to find enjoyment in this game despite of how it handle CC. I do:)

[RefugeASSASSIN]

It still doesnt explain why pull increases and is affected by a full resolve bar when its neither a stun nor a root.

 

Do you think that is working as intended? If so why? This is a perfect example of why its a broken system. Just because it may be working as they intended, doesnt mean it was well thought out or implemented. Ilum PVP was a perfect example of poor decision making so to say they might have missed a couple of things is not a big stretch.

[Bocherel]

 

In fairness, I did quit that game before the combat revamp but when I played pvp in that game was a fight for "who can apply dizzy first and make them change stances."

 

Not if you knew what you were doing.

 

Fortunately this game was full of clueless PvPer you could KD/Dizzy all day long and watch them die while laughing because they had no clue what to do about it or didn't have proper templates.

 

In SWG there was 3 CC, delay / knock down / posture change. There was no snare, no root, no stun.

[Scoobings]

I do.

 

We both have our opinions on it. I feel mine is more credible because it's mine.

 

I wouldn't be arguing this topic as much as I do if I didn't strongly and passionately believe that the CC system in this game was truly hurting it. I don't just want this game to survive, I want it to THRIVE! I want PvP to be something the game is known for, not despised for.

 

I respect those of you who feel it works as it should, this isn't personal. PLEASE look at the frustration and confusion it causes.

 

That frustration never goes away though. That's what I meant by people always deflect the blame for their mistakes. If it's not CC it's gear. If it's not gear it's class. If it's not class it's hazards.

 

This isn't just in this game either. Any game I've ever played EVER. It's a weapon (FPS) or it's a hero (MOBAS) or it's some other mechanic that capitalizes on other people's mistakes. Doesn't matter what it is, people will always complain and this frustration will always exist because whenever someone is a winner, someone else is a loser. Whenever there's a loser, there's about a 25% chance that loser will make some kind of snide comment or be a poor sport and in video games that means coming on the forums.

 

I'm not trying to imply that's what you're doing, I'm just trying to say that's where a lot of the anger and confusion is coming from. Losing.

 

*edit*

On a side note, I'VE even cussed out the resolve system before but really it's just an outlet for me getting mad at myself for being caught out of position. That, and I don't think resolve should drain WHILE you're CCed, I think that's kind of fruity

Edited April 9, 2012 by Scoobings