Bioware opening the door to "Hackers" with combat log

[ferroz]

The better question.

 

Why is the OP (who seems to be so internet savvy) worried about it?

 

If he was savvy he would know about ACT and be promoting that for people to use instead of websites.

Uh, so... people have to go to websites to find ACT; since you'll never actually reach every in game player, even if Bioware was actively spamming players with information about ACT, most people are going to find out about it by googling for it. That means that many of them are going to wind up bumping into other websites that are loading up on specific keywords to get people to come to their sites. Sites designed to trick people. Hence the increase in hacked accounts that the OP is predicting.

 

 

I have yet to see a website break down encounters.

 

I have yet to see a website break down each ability by hit/miss/crit%

 

I have yet to see a website break down ability usage percent (37% tracer 33% unload, etc..)

 

I have yet to see a website do all of that with damage taken either.

So... you've never seen world of logs, eh?

 

So again - tell me why people will be going to websites at all for parsing, when they can use ACT and get much better information?

Because not everyone is born with a section of thier brain already programmed with information about act, and how it parses swtor?

 

speaking of... can you provide a link to the swtor plugin for act?

Edited March 26, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

Wait, you are trying to hold BW responsible for people logging in to untrusted, possibly malicious websites? Seriously?.

I'm not sure how you're reading that from the text you quoted.

 

 

Bioware could prevent at least this one issue by making the data parse in game. Very simple solution since the data is already there.

 

Looks like he's clear: bioware can prevent it by having the data parsed by the game client.

[Iandayen]

Uh, so... people have to go to websites to find ACT; since you'll never actually reach every in game player, even if Bioware was actively spamming players with information about ACT, most people are going to find out about it by googling for it. That means that many of them are going to wind up bumping into other websites that are loading up on specific keywords to get people to come to their sites.

 

 

So... you've never seen world of logs, eh?

 

Because not everyone is born with a section of thier brain already programmed with information about act, and how it parses swtor?

 

speaking of... can you provide a link to the swtor plugin for act?

 

The people who go to websites to find ACT are going to go to websites to find any other parser - no matter what. Moot point. If they are dumb enough to go to websites they don't know or follow links from someone they don't trust then it's their own stupidity that caused it. Bioware has no fault in it whatsoever.

 

World of logs does not parse SWTOR data - and has no relevance to what I was talking about.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Swtor addon for ACT

 

How to use:

 

1) Download SwtorAddon (zip file): https://github.com/dafzal/SwtorAddon/zipball/master

2) Extract the zip file to c:\SwtorAddon

3) Download and install ACT: http://advancedcombattracker.com/

4) Run ACT

5) Go to the plugins tab

6) Click Browse

7) Add the plugin. Should be c:\SwtorAddon\SwtorAddon\bin\Debug\SwtorAddon.dll

8) Click Add/Enable Plugin

9) Go to the Import/Export tab

10) Click Select File

11) Combat logs should be in C:\Users\iota\Documents\Star Wars - The Old Republic\CombatLogs

12) Click YOU

 

You're done! Play around with the encounters in the main tab.

[Stupiddrummer]

It's about liability.

 

If Bioware had decided to put their own tool in game, there would be 0% chance to get a keylogger from trying to download a parser.

 

since Bioware decided that you are free to download your own parser, you now have a > 0% chance to download a keylogger.

 

I just don't understand why Bioware is comfortable passing the liability onto the player, when the liability should really be a non-issue.

[Iandayen]

It's about liability.

 

If Bioware had decided to put their own tool in game, there would be 0% chance to get a keylogger from trying to download a parser.

 

since Bioware decided that you are free to download your own parser, you now have a > 0% chance to download a keylogger.

 

I just don't understand why Bioware is comfortable passing the liability onto the player, when the liability should really be a non-issue.

 

Every other MMO game out there does the same thing.

 

It just sounds like someone got a virus or logger from an untrusted site and wants to place the blame on someone other than themselves.

 

Its the frigging internet people. You are trying to say bioware is liable for YOUR actions. They are not liable for YOUR actions in any way, shape or form. End of story.

[ferroz]

The people who go to websites to find ACT are going to go to websites to find any other parser - no matter what. Moot point.

No, that's not a moot point.

 

if the game has a parser built in, people will use that; if it doesn't people will go searching the internet.

 

Since the OP's point is that the lack of an in game parser will cause more hackers due to the increased number of people who will be looking for 3rd party solutions, that seems far from moot.

 

World of logs does not parse SWTOR data - and has no relevance to what I was talking about.

You said you've never seen anything do that... seems pretty relevant.

 

even with in game parsers for wow WoL was pretty popular; its' a good long term resource. I expect to see a similar product, especially withe gimpy way the logs are being implemented in this game; there are things you will only be able to do in a site like WoL and won't be able to do in ACT, since the info isn't available in the logs that you'll be able to get.

Edited March 26, 2012 by ferroz

[Lazzer]

Just as they caved with the dungeon finder, they'll cave with addons and full combat logs. Rift also didn't have addons in the beginning, they were against it. But now they have them. Why? Because mmorpg players enjoy them. Just as in that game there was a loud minority crowd that were against addons and all those goodies were eventually ignored, the same will happen in this game.

 

SWTOR will have addons and full combat logs within 1 year.

 

Seems like a niche in the market, catering for all of the minority voices in each MMO that agree with each other...

[Balrizangor]

I'm not sure how you're reading that from the text you quoted.

 

It is a response to the accumulation of the OPs posts, I just picked that one of his to quote ...

[Apache]

Ok, Im confused. Im not sure that I am fully understanding whats being discussed here in this thread.

 

Is the OP saying that people will flock to risky websites because BW doesnt have a combat log?

 

Is the OP also saying that if people do go to these websites, then it will be BWs fault if said people get malicious programs on thier computers Because BW doesnt have Combat Logs?

 

If the answer is Yes to these questions then...

 

1- Isnt there a Combat Log coming with 1.2? And if so, then why is this even being discussed?

 

2- How would BW be held liable, or responsible for people making a personal choice to go to risky websites? Shouldnt personal accountability be prevelant in this case?

 

3- What the heck is a Parser anyway? Some kind of home made combat log/number cruncher?

[Stupiddrummer]

Every other MMO game out there does the same thing.

 

It just sounds like someone got a virus or logger from an untrusted site and wants to place the blame on someone other than themselves.

 

Its the frigging internet people. You are trying to say bioware is liable for YOUR actions. They are not liable for YOUR actions in any way, shape or form. End of story.

 

Well, other MMOs you could download addons if you wanted to. Nothing required it.

 

however, if you want to parse your combat logs, you have no choice but to seek out a 3rd party site. That's a pretty big difference.

[lollermittens]

Yay! The usual fear-mongering drivel from the anti-combat log crowd.

 

Nothing to see here folks. Move along!

Edited March 26, 2012 by lollermittens

[OsarionRDM]

People getting their info stolen from a malicious web site is a scare tactic? Pretty sure that's a valid issue and something that happens to people every single day.

 

People get shot every single day while wearing shoes. Therefore, wearing shoes will get you shot. Round and round we go! Whee!

[Raansu]

It's called using anti-spyware and anti-virus programs to protect your pc.

 

Spybot-S&D

 

AVG Anti Virus program.

 

Problem solved.

 

I'm amazed this thread is still going btw.

[ferroz]

It is a response to the accumulation of the OPs posts, I just picked that one of his to quote ...

Personally, I suspect that it's just rhetoric/strawmanning.

[ferroz]

Ok, Im confused. Im not sure that I am fully understanding whats being discussed here in this thread.

 

Is the OP saying that people will flock to risky websites because BW doesnt have a combat log?

No, he's saying that an external combat log requires a 3rd party parser to be useful, so the addition of an external combat log means more people will be hacked than if the game was going to get an in game combat log.

 

Is the OP also saying that if people do go to these websites, then it will be BWs fault if said people get malicious programs on thier computers Because BW doesnt have Combat Logs?

Did he? I think the closest is an implied lack of due diligence.

 

If the answer is Yes to these questions then...

I'm pretty sure it's not.

 

3- What the heck is a Parser anyway? Some kind of home made combat log/number cruncher?

parser; in this context is a program that people can use to turn a raw, external combat log into useful information by parsing it (dps, heals per second, total damage per encounter by source, etc).

[crimsonsglory]

I blame the developers of the game.

 

There is no reason for them to have made such a half-baked version of the combat log. The in game only shows you what your killing blow was and what killed you. The rest goes to an offline log. There is no reason they could not have a parse in the game for us to look at at.

 

we get half baked version due to the half baked arguement from the anti logs crusaders

[ThiborF]

Yes I have seen the argument several times now. You are arguing people should be smart online, such a fatal flaw in that logic.

 

I'm also arguing your seeming logic that this one reason and one reason alone is the only thing that would drive somebody to potentially a malicious website, game related or otherwise.

 

Besides, some people, as you even allude out, aren't going to figure it out until they learn the hard way. You're using that as an excuse to get something you want out of BioWare. I say if people want to surf stupidly, let them. When they get hacked they'll realize they should have done something more.

 

And anyways, far better for someone to learn a lesson the hard way by having their game account hacked rather than their bank account.

[ferroz]

I'm also arguing your seeming logic that this one reason and one reason alone is the only thing that would drive somebody to potentially a malicious website, game related or otherwise.

seems pretty clear:

• with an in-game-parsed combat log = no reason to look for a dps parser on the internet.
  
• without an in-game-parsed combat log = there is a reason to look for a dps parser on the internet.
  

 

the latter situation clearly has more people browsing 3rd party websites, and there is more reason for someone to put up a malicious 3rd party website (since they get more bang for their buck in that situation).

[crimsonsglory]

It isn't BioWares job to play baby sitter, and honestly if you read what some of the devs have said about jerkish behavior that goes with logs..you are damn lucky to get what you got.=QUOTE]

 

contradiction in this statement, i sense much.

[crimsonsglory]

Having read the arguments, I do believe the OP to be either A. Paranoid due to having a bad experience on a malicious website, or B. Anti-combat log and trying to use scare tactics to keep combat logs out of the game.

 

If it's A, then I sympathize, but also say that a little prevention is a great thing. Get a good AV program that actively blocks spyware/adware and other viruses.

 

If it's B, then I have no sympathy whatsoever.

 

Also, seriously, EVE Online has had a combat log for years now, and Battleclinic has supported them for years as well. No problems with either game or site.

 

I do believe Anti logs bridgade A. Paranoid due to having bad experience with elitism/jerks.

[sempuken]

not really.

 

if you get hacked ur security is bad. it is not BW's fault

[ferroz]

not really.

 

if you get hacked ur security is bad. it is not BW's fault

can you quote someone saying that it is bioware's fault?

 

if you can't, then can you stop the strawman argument?

[sempuken]

can you quote someone saying that it is bioware's fault?

 

if you can't, then can you stop the strawman argument?

 

 

the title states: "bioware opening the door", implying their guilt, by neglecting to make an in-game parser. any security issues are on the user...

 

There is nothing wrong with the way they are doing things.

[Frostvein]

I realize the tool we are getting makes it very difficult for you to use it to ridicule those around you and reinforce your own self-worth, but that's no reason to go on a tirade about the evils of external websites.

 

I realize reading the entire thread might be too big of a stretch for you, but you'll notice that I specifically said that I didn't necessarily agree with his premise of getting hacked, only that if we had an internal real combat log he wouldn't need to go to an external 3rd party website.

 

With no combat log there wouldn't be such problems, so blame the pro combat log/meter brigade.

 

Yes, I am sorry that I expected the game to come with a combat log, a standard of the MMO genre since the mid to late 90's. Foolish me.

[ferroz]

the title states: "bioware opening the door", implying their guilt, by neglecting to make an in-game parser. any security issues are on the user...

So, you can't quote anyone saying that... perhaps you should quit with the strawman?

 

There is nothing wrong with the way they are doing things.

Sure there is; there are lots of things wrong with lots of the things that they're doing.