LeonBraun Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Lol! funny! You should come to Stormrage and then say that. Even in a static mode, WoW is still far ahead of any other MMO in terms of "paying" customers. Not saying this because I donot play or sub to TOR, I do and will continue to do so atleast until the middle of this summer. Great game. But the points you have made are very weak.....very very weak. You assume too much Padawan on your own limited experence. Stormrage in WoW is everyone FOTM to flock to, in order to raid... That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 This. It might be partially true (although I seriously doubt that one server from each game is a large enough sample size), but to be honest, most "new" characters in the starting zones are re-rolls. Especially after the announcement of the legacy system. Also, isn't this a free pass weekend, or whatever the **** they call it? A lot of those new characters are not paid subs nor will they actually be staying around. This is a really pessemistic point of view... Re-rolls in starter zones are not there for long, as it takes a few hours for a re-roll player to be through... I have 14 toons in SW:TOR over 2 server and have not seen a dead starting zone yet... Also, of those free passes, a healthy chunk will no doubt stick around at least to buy the game for another month... The free trial does not need to keep everyone in oreder for it to succeed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btsager Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I'm not complaining and not making assumptions, actually, you are lol I'm just asking what there is to do beside level an alt. And you're right, all games these days are boring and people are left with nothing to do, that's the whole point, that's my only complaint I hope you guys enjoy, that's all, but people like myself won't and are just biding time at the moment. Biding your time for what? The next MMO to come out were you will play for 3-4 months before completing all of the content and then start complaining there is nothing to do again? This is the nature of MMO's, None of them have constant new things for you to do. You do the same **** over and over until you give up and quit. Some people enjoy the social aspect of the game and play longer then others. Some people enjoy crafting and the market so that helps keep them occupied. Some of us like all aspects of the game and are content to play the same stuff over and over until new content/expansions come out. People like you though will never be satisfied and will always complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangefate Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) The key to MMORPG viability is "how many new players are coming to the game?" or "how many players are leveling new characters?" when the starting zones are empty, its over for an MMORPG. Why are starting zone numbers so important to MMORPG viability? Because without new players it is very difficult for guilds to recruit and form new guilds or replace losses due to attrition in existing guilds. New blood is the key to guild and MMORPG viability. Lets compare The number of players in WoW's Alliance starting zones on the Maelstrom RP-PvP server to the number of players in the Republic starting zones on the Ven Zallow RP-PvP server from levels 1-20 today, Sunday March 3/25/2012 at 11:00 AM CST. Both servers are medium population. Here are the numbers •Maelstrom Alliance: 1-20 - 28 characters •Ven Zallow Repuplic: 1-20 - 88 characters. The numbers speak for themselves. SWTOR is clearly growing twice as fast as wow by sufficient numbers more than replace any losses due to attrition while WoW is in maintenance mode at best or is slowly losing players. Neither game is dying but SWTOR is clearly more healthy than WoW. You will likely find similar results on most servers in WoW and SWTOR. ReplyQuoteEdit Feel free to post your results from your server(s). Almost a fair comparison. From what I can tell, Maelstrom is an average WoW server, it's pretty much in the middle as far as activity and population goes. Where as Ven Zallow is one of the more active TOR servers, upper 1/5 or so. Also, WoW has what... twice as many servers as TOR ? ...so incoming players will be more spread, you can't compare servers 1:1... that's no reliable data of any kind. And you also need to factor in the small detail that wow has been having new people join for 10 years... I'm actually surprised that it's still getting that many people after all these years. I looked up the meaning of statistics for you, so that in future we may have valid data to talk about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics Your opinion of SWTOR end game has nothing to do with the viability of the game. The viability of the game is determined by how many new players are coming to the game. I think that's wrong. This is not a movie theater where you get people's money upfront and you can count movie goers to gauge success. In the movie scenario, once you have their money it doesn't matter if the movie is terrible and people leave the theater before the movie is done. They paid, you win. An MMO is about retention and continual payments, how many come to the game based on promised fun or expectations or because it's new and shiny doesn't matter, every failed MMO starts the same, but viability is gauged by how many stay. How many lvl 10s there is is completely irrelevant, how many people of those are left at lvl 30 or 50, and how many of those 50s decide to keep paying, will determine the viability of TOR as an MMO, a type of game that's all about retention and continuos monthly payments to fund it's continued growth and expansion. Or... another analogy, lvl 10s tell you how good the marketing was, lvl 50s tell you how good the actual product is. It would tell us a lot more if you came back in 1-2 months and let us know how many of the lvl 10s you invited to your guild are still playing regularly. That at least would give us some data about retention rates that we can extrapolate from. Edited March 25, 2012 by Strangefate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graveside Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's not that I don't want to do any of it, it's that I all ready have....the only thing on that list that I can do still is dailies..fun..and pvp...better to wait since full bm and can't see myself having only that to do..like I said, it's not a hardcore game, I'm ok with that, I'll see what 1.2 brings and leave. Also. it's a free weekend, may explain some of your new players... I'm sorry Melacon, but you and your guild have no room to talk, about content. Any MMO player knows that if they burn through the content in 2 months there will be nothing to do besides basically alts. You have achieved your HIGH and MIGHTY altar...you can show off your armor, weapons and achievements, but you being here complaining or even remotely stating that this game is easy...would lead me to believe that if, BW made a FP so hard that you couldn't beat it in 1 month ... someone in your guild would complain it's to hard or there is no room for error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melacon Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Biding your time for what? The next MMO to come out were you will play for 3-4 months before completing all of the content and then start complaining there is nothing to do again? This is the nature of MMO's, None of them have constant new things for you to do. You do the same **** over and over until you give up and quit. Some people enjoy the social aspect of the game and play longer then others. Some people enjoy crafting and the market so that helps keep them occupied. Some of us like all aspects of the game and are content to play the same stuff over and over until new content/expansions come out. People like you though will never be satisfied and will always complain. Are all you people the same? Don't read words for their context, only for your blind rage for others? I wasn't complaining at all, just stating facts that I know are true for myself and my friends...... And No, this isn't the nature of MMO's, ask anyone that actually played a real MMO that wasn' wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishko Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 There is no research here. It's just one guys personal expereince, backed by nothing more than his personal opinion on who is dying and thriving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NasherUK Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Really? ok, it's Saturday, my Ops are done for the week...I'm in full Rakata, nothing to craft (which I wouldn't be doing anyway) no mats to gather (companions do that to), can pvp (if you can stomach it after valor 60), FP's have always been pointless (normal Ops are easier and better)..no point in doing dailies anymore, so many credits all ready and don't need tokens, and I'm not an alt guy....So what exactly is "too much to do?" If you say I'm too hardcore than you're right and that's why I cancelled unless 4 whole new bosses in 1.2 keep me and my guild occupied for longer than a month. But I had the same problems in WOW. My guild had done just about everything there is to do (including 25 man heroics raids) and I was paying a subscription just to watch the game slowly die as people left 1 after another. In the end both guilds I was in split up due to lack of active players. Also recent wow content patches were *********** terrible, which is only causing more people to leave. The kung fu panda expansion looks like a total joke as well. Right now in TOR I'm in a very active guild and I'm seeing new people around almost every day. Edited March 25, 2012 by NasherUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othehto Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Well, I have swapped servers at the behest of friends many times; I am still working on getting my first 50 due to a combination of being an altaholic and the fact I play multiple games online. To say the game is growing is arguable. The one observation I notice, with constantly going through the same first 30 levels, is the decline of the player base. 1. It is harder to get characters through lower level flash points; there simply are not as many people grouping. 2. It is harder to find people for lower level heroic content; the zones feel almost deserted. SWTORs basic design while helping maintaining the story driven feel has isolated players within pockets of their own stories and making the worlds feel empty in the process. When I go to Dromund Kaas, the seat of the Empire's power I should feel like I'm going to a major metropolitan city; instead I see the population is in the low to mid 20s; If I am lucky I "might" see 2 or 3 others running around in the streets. It gives the perception of a barren universe. Even going to the fleet nowadays you see throngs of 50s gathered at the PvP terminals and a less pod at the Bank Vaults and this is the most populated place in our known universe. On a PvP server after 30 levels I have seen ONE republic player.. ONE.. and at and viewing him at range, on the horizon, on his speeder going the opposite direction the chance to run him down before he would get to his destination was simply not worth the time it would take. There is no feeling of "conflict" between the factions other than those that are story driven; and becomes a negative aspect for the PvP community. Quests should overlap and force you to cross rival territory. Resources need to be competed over. Players should have a reason to gather; help each. Do not force conflict, simply provide the opportunity. Right now I have a companion, can ignore heroics, get to 50 and if I never see another player.. It doesn't matter. I can just trade in my overabundant commendations to get orange gear. So while I like to think the community is growing; I like many others already have friends who have tired of the game; are not logging in; and are definitely not re-rolling. Sure my observations are anecdotal but when the anecdotal are all you have to make a decision it definitely impacts how shiny the next new penny is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Speak for yourself, we are anything but bored. You must be anything but raiding or at the end of the game to say that imho. I recruited 20 new players in one 10-16 zone, Courscant yesterday. Only about 1/4 of them were alts. Today in Westfall there were only 3 characters from 10-15. Yesterday on Courscant there were 20-35 all day. You recruited a bunch of people from lowbie zones during free trial times? NO WAY! When the facts challenge your closely held assumptions and myths, you should reevaluate your assumptions in light of the facts. Oh you mean when your opinions you're pushing as facts challenge someone else doing the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) I have extensive experience as a guild leader. I have recruited thousands of MMO players across several games and many servers. I know when a game is dying and wow is a dying game. I also know when a game is growing and SWTOR is a growing game. Argument from authority without providing credentials. You know SWTOR is growing? Cool story bro. All my friends but one have already unsubbed and I know alot of people personally who anticipated it, and bought it on release. Edited March 25, 2012 by Vlaxitov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I would hope SW has more people leveling right now, its fairly new. When was the last expansion for WOW? Kinda like the new restaraunt in town compared to the one everyone has been eating at for years. Gotta try it for yourself to see if you might like it and make it your new favorite. Only time will tell if the customers will be back or not. Too early to tell if the food will keep people coming back for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 You must be anything but raiding or at the end of the game to say that imho. You recruited a bunch of people from lowbie zones during free trial times? NO WAY! Oh you mean when your opinions you're pushing as facts challenge someone else doing the same... I'm Raiding and playing the end game and having a blast, so is everyone I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I'm Raiding and playing the end game and having a blast, so is everyone I know. Yeah thats the deal for about the first month of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esproc Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Are all you people the same? Don't read words for their context, only for your blind rage for others? I wasn't complaining at all, just stating facts that I know are true for myself and my friends...... And No, this isn't the nature of MMO's, ask anyone that actually played a real MMO that wasn' wow. This is not Fact, but Opinion. Sorry to say, but no matter how you put it, there is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippiechick Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 You guys arent taking into account that there are way more places in WoW for a new/alt to be in. How about adding up all the zones that new chars to the same level can be in in WoW THEN come here and tell us the numbers (ie: starter areas for each race and places like durotar, elwyn forest, ghostlands, mulgore, etc.) Its not fair to pick one zone in WoW and pit it against the ONLY zone in SWTOR that people can be in. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 doubt wow gets to many new players these days, I think almost everyone that has played an mmo has had at least a short stay in wow..LOL, I do know a few people that have never played it, LOLI would think that most old mmo's get very few new players, I know once I leave a game I rarely return, I can't even be counted as a newly returning player..LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 doubt wow gets to many new players these days, I think almost everyone that has played an mmo has had at least a short stay in wow..LOL, I do know a few people that have never played it, LOL Theres fresh truckloads of 13-15 year old boys ready to play WoW with every passing year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samborino Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 The numbers speak for themselves. SWTOR is clearly growing twice as fast as wow by sufficient numbers more than replace any losses due to attrition while WoW is in maintenance mode at best or is slowly losing players. Neither game is dying but SWTOR is clearly more healthy than WoW. You will likely find similar results on most servers in WoW and SWTOR. ReplyQuoteEdit Feel free to post your results from your server(s). SWtor is not CLEARLY growing twice as fast as wow by comparing 1 server. Thats a bit of an overstatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangefate Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 SWtor is not CLEARLY growing twice as fast as wow by comparing 1 server. Thats a bit of an overstatement. As I already pointed out on page 3 I think... WoW has about twice the amount of servers so new people will be more spread anyway, plus the TOR server he picked is on the upper 1/5 as far as activity goes and the WoW server he picked is in about the middle as far as WoW servers go. His claim is useless. Also, an influx of new players says nothing about the viability of an MMO. WAR had large influx of people when it came out and died pretty quick, any average MMO will bring hordes of people at release. What matters is retention, how many of those lvl 10s will be still playing at lvl 30, and then 50 and how many of those lvl 50 will stay. The current planet populations give you an idea, if the starter areas have 60x lvl 10s and the lvl 30 area has 30x lvl 30s, half the people aren't making it for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 SWtor is not CLEARLY growing twice as fast as wow by comparing 1 server. Thats a bit of an overstatement. Feel free to post data from your own server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangefate Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Feel free to post data from your own server. you really don't realize or probably just ignore that your 'data' has no merit. Anyone could go to the deadest TOR server and compare that data against the strongest WoW server and prove you wrong, or rather just how useless your approach is to proving anything. Do some real work and come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 probably because the only other option other than leveling alts is to log off.....but I see what you're trying to say Yeah but he's saying it wrong. SWTOR is still so new people are creating alts, and bringing friends in. You'll need to wait until May - August to get an idea of what this game is going to do. So all the 60 game cards and 3 month subs finally run out from anyone who picked the game up in Dec - Jan with their free month. The wishful thinking is cute though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noodlehaus Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) the reason there are few people in starting zones in WoW is because they're mostly alts and they're enjoying the use of the DUNGEON FINDER from their capital cities. they've done the content pre-end game and are going for end-game on a new class as fast as they can. but yeah, i see what you're trying to do. Edited March 26, 2012 by noodlehaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Yeah thats the deal for about the first month of it. My god how jaded..... I have been doing that for nearly two and a half months thank you very much so has my guild and we are growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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