Luochaz Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 You are wrong about PvP just being a side thing. It's clear to most people and even Bioware, that PvP is becoming just as large as a part of this game as PvE. The main reason PvP is becoming a huge part of this game is because ... well... it is just so much fun doing warzones in this game, Bioware listed that 60something% of players do Warzones daily. The devs may have originally thought that PvP was just going to be side thing in this game, but it is and even has become a major part in this game. This guy nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 PvP is a much larger part of the game than PvE will ever be. Just look at the forum posts. The PvP section has 1000% more(Yes 1000) number of posts than the flashpoint/ops forum does. PvP is this games bread and butter like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyleya Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Why don't you hardcore 1337 PvP-players don't go play a real PvP-MMO then? One where you can actually loose something upon death? People who tell me they're mainly interetsed in PvP should go play either a shooter or some real PvP-MMO like in EvE Online. I'm playing EvE since 2005 with some few month inbetween, where I need my PvE-fix. And I don't want you lookalike PvP-players to ruin my PvE-themeparks. Death to battlegrounds and arenas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrrd Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Why don't you hardcore 1337 PvP-players don't go play a real PvP-MMO then? One where you can actually loose something upon death? People who tell me they're mainly interetsed in PvP should go play either a shooter or some real PvP-MMO like in EvE Online. I'm playing EvE since 2005 with some few month inbetween, where I need my PvE-fix. And I don't want you lookalike PvP-players to ruin my PvE-themeparks. Death to battlegrounds and arenas! My 15$ a month say other wise, I HAVE as much right as you have to play both style be PvE PvP so leave this one alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pregzuel Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 This has been the same.. in every mmo i have played.. ALL the PVPers just CRY and act like total babies because either there player skill sucks or they dont have the right gear.. then they blame it on class balance i lost.. yeah its class balance issue its not Oh im not that. good or he was just a better player than myself no no.. its class balance. and then they balance the game which distorys us in PVE i have said this before and i will say it again IF YOU WANT A REAL PVP!!! GAME GO PLAY AN FPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pregzuel Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 PvP is a much larger part of the game than PvE will ever be. Just look at the forum posts. The PvP section has 1000% more(Yes 1000) number of posts than the flashpoint/ops forum does. PvP is this games bread and butter like it or not. the reason why that is.. because you guys are CRYING all the damn time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerodian Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I don't like PVP. I never have, so I don't want to deal with PVP. If you like more power to you, but it's not my thing. One thing I don't want is to have to re-learn all or some of my class because some change in PVP royally messed up my character. I've had to go through this way too often in other games and I'm more than a little sick of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlakrar Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 PvE doesn't feel "balance" the way PvP does. If a boss dies faster becuase you have some stupid hard hitting move that does 347861347896134 damage, you don't mind as you still get your loots and your kills. However, if another player has said damage, and can 1-shot everyone in a WZ, then it isn't fun for anyone. That is why /not-signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiranK Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 the reason why that is.. because you guys are CRYING all the damn time! And what were you doing just now? Uh huh. Pot... Kettle... Oh, I see you two have already met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apokelypse Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Yeah I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on PVP "being just a side thing", it actually is refreshing that an mmo (SWTOR) focuses on the pvp content. Good luck with this game when only pvp remains then. I already can't find a reason to log in anymore...only a matter of time until I give up and cancel my sub if that keeps up. I was hoping for 1.2 to breathe some life back into the server population for pve, but instead I get my pve spec (concealment op) destroyed for pvp balance. I've actually been spending the time that I would have been playing swtor looking for a new game to play instead. I keep coming back to these forums looking for some reason to stay with this game..but clearly I'm fooling myself if I don't plan to pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporin Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 You want PvP? >>>BF3 is that way! Cya!>>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrobot Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I disagree. PvE crybabies aren't going to be enough to keep the game alive, as once you finish the new op, and are done rolling all your alts, the only thing left for you to do is RP or quit. Hardcore PVPers and hardcore PVEers could keep the game alive if Bioware just gave us more content. Maybe 2 raids in 1.2 instead of one? or just make explosive conflict a 15 raid boss op, that would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotbox Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's the PVP player that keeps a game alive long term because eventually the PVE player runs out of content, whereas the PVP player doesn't. Every MMO that has died has catered to the carebears and nerfed PVP over and over. I can list them here but as everyone here are gamers you've probably all played them from SWG to Pirates of the Burning Sea. There are even stories now on PVP servers that staff has interceded on behalf on someone who got ganked on a PVP server and got help or had their toon banned for killing people on an open world server. Bioware swore they would never do that, claiming they would never stop or solve any problem that had PVP as a solution. Catering to PVE players over the PVP community is a surefire way to send your MMO the way of the Dodo bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZORG Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 yah PvP is the major focus of SWTOR..that's why they spent all that extra money and time on voice actors and cutscenes...rite? amirite? a lot of that "60%" doing warzones daily are doing so for the cash/exp/etc..not necessarily because it's PvP. give me the statistic of ACTIVE PvP server players vs PvE..add to that a list of ACTIVE people participating in PvP stuff vs PvE... even with that..PvP is still a second to PvE...a lot do it because of the rewards and it GIVES SOMETHING TO DO... but whatever. that said; PvE mechanics are nothing like PvP mechanics..so why are so many devs stupid enough to balance things towards PvP?? Then you end up borking PvE.... PvP stats should be TOTALLY SEPERATE from PvE... add more stats solely for PvP (like expertise) that the game uses to calculate attacks/defense/etc whenever you're fighting other players. sure it takes more coding, but the game already doesn't take your expertise into account while fighting in PvE so why not do the SMART thing and just totally seperate PvE and PvP stat mechanics. make EVERYONE happy. but then again, I'm all for common sense and not one to take the idiots path like most devs do by balancing a PvE centered game based off the whining of PvP'ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotbox Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Statistics like 'expertise' are PVP killers. Why? Because it discourages the PVE player from PVP. The guy that hits hard in a raid hits like a wet noodle in a BG and gets frustrated. Or worse, the tank in grinding their dailies on a PVP server and gets one shot by a guy in full PVP gear. That's when the PVE guy goes 'PVP sucks and needs to be nerfed' Almost every guy I know who is a hardcore carebear now is someone who got beat up bad in PVP and won't go back, and almost always that is a result of split gear trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZORG Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 PvE doesn't feel "balance" the way PvP does. If a boss dies faster becuase you have some stupid hard hitting move that does 347861347896134 damage, you don't mind as you still get your loots and your kills. However, if another player has said damage, and can 1-shot everyone in a WZ, then it isn't fun for anyone. That is why /not-signed BUT..... If there was separate skill trees with different stats. Then you caould have your PVP skill attack buttons and you PVE attack buttons. All with the SAME abilities on it but only work for PVP or PVE respectivly. So a skill like tracer missle thats OP in PVP could be altered with out touching the PVE tracer missle this way the PVErs arent affected by PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Statistics like 'expertise' are PVP killers. Why? Because it discourages the PVE player from PVP. The guy that hits hard in a raid hits like a wet noodle in a BG and gets frustrated. Or worse, the tank in grinding their dailies on a PVP server and gets one shot by a guy in full PVP gear. That's when the PVE guy goes 'PVP sucks and needs to be nerfed' Almost every guy I know who is a hardcore carebear now is someone who got beat up bad in PVP and won't go back, and almost always that is a result of split gear trees. but if PvP was as important as the e-peen criers want us to think then this wouldn't be an issue now would it? everyone would get that gear to PvP. and basically what' you're saying is...it's ok to discourage or upset the PvE'er but god forbid they do something to the pvp'ers right? amirite? whatever. the stats need to be seperated...PvP and PvE should not have any connecting stats and should be balanced solely to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayceJa Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 You are wrong about PvP just being a side thing. It's clear to most people and even Bioware, that PvP is becoming just as large as a part of this game as PvE. The main reason PvP is becoming a huge part of this game is because ... well... it is just so much fun doing warzones in this game, Bioware listed that 60something% of players do Warzones daily. The devs may have originally thought that PvP was just going to be side thing in this game, but it is and even has become a major part in this game. the question is, how many of those 60% ONLY do the dailies, simply cause its very quick and very easy xp, and do not do warzones otherwise, im guessing quite a lot, at least enough to put it less than 50% not to say pvp is unimportant or anything, just pointing out the flaw in that statistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Rathus Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Get rid of pvp. Reallocate the resources to other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotbox Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 but if PvP was as important as the e-peen criers want us to think then this wouldn't be an issue now would it? everyone would get that gear to PvP. and basically what' you're saying is...it's ok to discourage or upset the PvE'er but god forbid they do something to the pvp'ers right? amirite? whatever. the stats need to be seperated...PvP and PvE should not have any connecting stats and should be balanced solely to themselves. Do that and you cause more division between the two camps. By making PVP and PVE two different paths but ultimately the same end goal you make a player want to do both, and make a more immersive MMO experience for all. A 5000 point hit to a boss should be the same as 5000 point hit to another player. All you have to do is put in a damage reduction across the board for PVP. MMO's used to do that. Putting in a separate stat accomplishes nothing except dividing the community over the issue and making it harder for the casual PVE to do BG's and the hardcore PVP guy to raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboro Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Nobody has ever succeeded to please the pvp crowd, so i dont understand why they even try. All they do is annoy the pve crowd. This approach seemed to have worked for wow, but it didnt go so well in Rift and AoC. Remains to be seen how it will go here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Do that and you cause more division between the two camps. By making PVP and PVE two different paths but ultimately the same end goal you make a player want to do both, and make a more immersive MMO experience for all. A 5000 point hit to a boss should be the same as 5000 point hit to another player. All you have to do is put in a damage reduction across the board for PVP. MMO's used to do that. Putting in a separate stat accomplishes nothing except dividing the community over the issue and making it harder for the casual PVE to do BG's and the hardcore PVP guy to raid. then there should also either be no different rewards or the rewards are just as hard to get. which they're not. want to PvP in a warzone? same server only just like us "carebears"...oh and you have to stand around and LFG-warzone like us also. want a reward? better win the fight..lose? tough...oh and deal with repair costs as well. PvE and PvP work completely different. to balance one off the other is complete stupidity. oh and..there already is an expertise stat in SWTOR..already seperating the players somewhat. no if someone wants to PvP they'll PvP. or would you PvP'ers also like the "elitists" to only take you on their PvP team if you have a certain build or gear level like PvE'ers have to deal with? mechanics and approach are totally different...I'll say it again...since the mechanics and approach differ..the stats and balancing need too as well. anything else is just plain dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotbox Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 then there should also either be no different rewards or the rewards are just as hard to get. which they're not. want to PvP in a warzone? same server only just like us "carebears"...oh and you have to stand around and LFG-warzone like us also. want a reward? better win the fight..lose? tough...oh and deal with repair costs as well. PvE and PvP work completely different. to balance one off the other is complete stupidity. oh and..there already is an expertise stat in SWTOR..already seperating the players somewhat. no if someone wants to PvP they'll PvP. or would you PvP'ers also like the "elitists" to only take you on their PvP team if you have a certain build or gear level like PvE'ers have to deal with? mechanics and approach are totally different...I'll say it again...since the mechanics and approach differ..the stats and balancing need too as well. anything else is just plain dumb. Now you're just getting nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsheraII Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) *sigh* When will the kids stop saying nonsense like "Aspect X is only a side note (and I think that's not exactly a correct term) of this game, developers should focus more on Aspect Y". Like it or not, EVERYTHING is there as a main course. YOU may not like Aspect X, but plenty of others do! For EVERY aspect of this game, and the same goes for any other AAA MMO, there are MORE people who are desinterrested than there are people who are interrested. You like OPS? Sorry, but there are more people interrested in doing solo content, flashpoints, PvP, Space Combat and rerolling. You like solo content? Sorry, but there are more people interrested in doing flashpoints, PvP, Space Combat, rerolling and OPS. You like flashpoints? Sorry, but there are more people interrested in doing PvP, Space Combat, rerolling, OPS and solo content. You like PvP? Sorry, but there are more people interrested in doing Space Combat, rerolling, OPS, solo content and flashpoints. You like Space Combat? Sorry, but there are more people interrested in doing rerolling, OPS, solo content, flashpoints and PvP. You like rerolling? Sorry, but there are more people interrested in doing Space OPS, solo content, flashpoints, PvP and Space Combat. What you're demanding is basically one of the things that made WoW such a lousy game since halfway TBC: ALL developer resources being put into one or two aspects of the game, which the majority of players actually doesn't even CARE about. ALL aspects of the game being funneled into content that the majority of players isn't interrested in. Too maintain an AAA MMO means offering a variety of aspects to the game, and to support ALL these aspects. Each time a developer relegates any one of those aspects to a sidetrack, the MMO basically looses one of those A's. Sure, the minority raiding community needs its support, ballancing and updates, but so do all the other minorities. Edited March 25, 2012 by AsheraII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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