Hitting stealthers once just to keep them in combat?

[Agemnon]

Hey im a stealth class so i want to be able to press 1 button to dissapear whenever i want. I also want this button to have no cooldown whatsoever, so that I can open up on the same person as many times i like. Please give me a button that refills 75% of my health instantly aswell. Oh and come on, don't we deserve gear that gives us 500% surge?

 

That's a strawman. I said nothing about stealthing whenever we want just having a reasonably reduced CD on disappearing act and being allowed to do our job. We could stay in combat if we're actually being attacked and the combat mechanics aren't being exploited as an anti-stealth mechanism.

[JonJW]

I know that most of your damage comes from stealth but i would not call popping you out of stealth an exploit. By that logic making a soc/sage move so they cant cast their channeled ability is an exploit. Stuns stop people from doing damage/healing so that is an exploit. Knockbacks on a melee class is exploiting. sniper entering cover so he can't be interupted is an exploit. As a Bh i use my taunts/gaurd to mitigate damage against a friendly player so that must be exploiting too.

 

Like I said, when certain people come up against others who know how combat works and play with skill they want to call it an exploit.

[Mofotrey]

"If you had to have an intention to fight to be in combat, no new 50's would ever die to BM geared PVP'ers because they'd decline. Warzones aren't duels where you have to accept combat; if you're in a warzone, your intention IS to fight already."

 

No one said anything about declining a duel, if the new 50s are being hit then of course they should stay in combat even if they aren't fighting back because they are still actually being damaged.

 

...Which is exactly the case with stealth classes. Even if you're not fighting back, you're getting damaged, and thus you stay in combat.

[Kabaal]

we want just having a reasonably reduced CD on disappearing act and being allowed to do our job.

 

What's the cooldown on it, 3 minutes? If so then i'd concede that it could do with being shorter as could many other defensive cooldowns. 1.5 - 2mins would be reasonable, if it's already that then.. well.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Kabaal

[Bocherel]

TS is right in a way.

 

The dot stuff is a legitimate mechanics to Break stealth since it should unstealth as the dot tick

 

However hitting once and or landing anything to prevent stealth is a game mechanic EXPLOIT. Goerg Zoeller stated :

 

"Stealth is available 8sec AFTER the last hostile action from the stealther"

 

But those who use that cheap exploit makes the mechanic bugs and we are stuck in combat for 1min or until they die.

 

This issue needs to be addressed asap

Edited March 24, 2012 by Bocherel

[JonJW]

Seems you don't want people keeping you from going into stealth and doing your "job"

So essentially the same could be said for me on my sorcerer when i'm stunned etc and kept from doing my "job"

 

The point of combat is to win the objective and the way to do that is to render the opposite team ineffective by killing their healer and keeping their stealth classes from using stealth.

I'll admit it's annoying as hell when i'm constantly interrupted while healing but hey it's pvp.

[Agemnon]

Popping someone out of stealth isn't an exploit, there are skills specifically designed for it, but hitting someone just to keep them out of stealth without actually going to fight them is. Maybe you can hit them once to bring them out, but after a few seconds of not being attacked then they should be able to stealth again.

[Agemnon]

Seems you don't want people keeping you from going into stealth and doing your "job"

So essentially the same could be said for me on my sorcerer when i'm stunned etc and kept from doing my "job"

 

The point of combat is to win the objective and the way to do that is to render the opposite team ineffective by killing their healer and keeping their stealth classes from using stealth.

I'll admit it's annoying as hell when i'm constantly interrupted while healing but hey it's pvp.

 

You can be stunned to be kept from doing your job, I can be stunned from doing my job and do so just by staying in combat without getting the opener in.

[JonJW]

Popping someone out of stealth isn't an exploit, there are skills specifically designed for it, but hitting someone just to keep them out of stealth without actually going to fight them is. Maybe you can hit them once to bring them out, but after a few seconds of not being attacked then they should be able to stealth again.

 

So is someone interrupting my heal and then running away an exploit?

[DarthMikesta]

Haha, this is funny. Ops may or may not have been overly nerfed, but every single one of those changes in OP is absolutely ridiculous. I have never really had a big problem getting back into stealth on my Op... I hate to say this is a l2p issue, but it definitely is.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Read the first page.

 

I don't think the OP has any idea what an exploit is.

 

LOL hitting a stealther to put them in combat is an exploit.

[Albaatros]

If you dont want people to hit you when your out of combat to prevent you from stealthing, just stealth in the first place.

[dirtyboxer]

Stealthers arent a stand and deliver type class, no matter how bad you may want them to be.

[Grubfist]

I have seen and experienced this many times, a person would hit my character then just run off to fight someone else. I feel that this is a flagrant exploitation of game mechanics as well as DoTing just as an anti-stealth instead of a HoT mitigation. Here are some suggestions for stealth classes and undoing exploits:

 

1. DoTs and time spent in combat reduce the (really, really long 2 minute) CD on skills such as disappearing act.

 

2. Reduce the CD of DA to 1:30, and remove talenting into it all together.

 

3. Give smugglers sprint (if gunslingers/snipers don't have one already) equal to force speed. Still won't be competitive with sages in Huttball (which is what devs want, amirite?), but would at least have some utility.

 

4. Give a shadowstep ability.

 

5. An out of stealth delay.

 

6. An increased cone for behind attacks, since many players walk backwards which is just as fast as stealth speed a spring can be used to run through the player and shoot first then backblast them to get around their exploit.

 

7 Since scoundrel/operative damage is dependent on the position of the player said damage needs a buff. If maras/knights can do obscene damage from anywhere within 4 meters (and even beyond with their throw lightsaber move) then operatives/scoundrels should do even more since we have a more restricted positional requirement, and one that's easy enough to avoid.

 

8. BHs/troopers have an anti-stealth probe. Knowing about this hurts our DPS as we have to wait for it to drop before committing ourselves to an attack or wait for their GCD to activate (a very short window).

 

9. Reduce stealth's CD to 2 seconds, 1 with a talent point.

 

10. Buff stealth speed to normal. Then sprint wouldn't be needed to walk through and get in back attacks.

 

11. Improve targeting, but this applies to all classes.

 

No matter what class I'm playing or role I'm performing, if I see you in stealth, I'ma hit you with my basic attack and go back to what I was doing.

 

Stealth classes, especially scoundrel/operatives, rely on their opening, so keeping them from using it is similar to interrupting a class that relies on long casts.

 

Do you think it's supposed to be some grand secret that you can't stealth unless in combat? The good players will know the likely reactions to most events and be prepared to counter them. They will know nearly all of your abilities either by fighting your class or playing an alt. Knowledge is power. If you're predictable, you get squashed.

 

As an example, my vanguard has an ability called "Hold the Line"

For 8 seconds, he becomes immune to slows, snares, grapples, pulls, and knockbacks.

Since most people are hilariously predictable, I will walk precariously close to an edge and turn on my Hold The Line. Then I will laugh as I see them and sometimes 1-2 nearby friends all run over and waste their knockbacks trying to shove me off the ledge or into fire/acid, etc.

Had they known anything about my class, they would have known that the red energy cell means I will likely have this ability, and they will know when it's up by the orange circle under my feet for its duration. They would then use their knockbacks in a more careful way and negate my strategy for making them waste it when it won't affect me.

 

PvP is entirely about anticipating enemy responses and countering them. Endlessly.

 

If you're mad you got countered, you're missing the point. Think of it like chess. You do something, they counter, you counter their counter, they counter your counter for their counter, etc. You need to have this mapped out in your head as you engage a target. Stay a few moves ahead. This "few moves ahead" thing will also have branches. If you use an ability and he uses Counter A, you use Follow-Up A, but if he uses Counter B, you use Follow-Up B.

 

Knowledge is everything in PvP. As someone who finds human behavior extremely fascinating, this is what makes PvP so much fun for me.

 

Also, you have an ability that increases your stealth level by like 15. Use it when you need to close on an enemy. Stealth isn't too hard to spot at close range.

[Ich_Bin]

Haha, this is funny. Ops may or may not have been overly nerfed, but every single one of those changes in OP is absolutely ridiculous. I have never really had a big problem getting back into stealth on my Op... I hate to say this is a l2p issue, but it definitely is.

 

This is nonsense.

 

Even though I disagree with the OP: if you have no problem getting back into stealth with your Operative it doesn't mean that you play better than the OP. It only means that your opponents play worse than his.

[Xinika]

I have seen and experienced this many times, a person would hit my character then just run off to fight someone else. I feel that this is a flagrant exploitation of game mechanics as well as DoTing just as an anti-stealth instead of a HoT mitigation. Here are some suggestions for stealth classes and undoing exploits:

 

1. DoTs and time spent in combat reduce the (really, really long 2 minute) CD on skills such as disappearing act.

 

2. Reduce the CD of DA to 1:30, and remove talenting into it all together.

 

3. Give smugglers sprint (if gunslingers/snipers don't have one already) equal to force speed. Still won't be competitive with sages in Huttball (which is what devs want, amirite?), but would at least have some utility.

 

4. Give a shadowstep ability.

 

5. An out of stealth delay.

 

6. An increased cone for behind attacks, since many players walk backwards which is just as fast as stealth speed a spring can be used to run through the player and shoot first then backblast them to get around their exploit.

 

7 Since scoundrel/operative damage is dependent on the position of the player said damage needs a buff. If maras/knights can do obscene damage from anywhere within 4 meters (and even beyond with their throw lightsaber move) then operatives/scoundrels should do even more since we have a more restricted positional requirement, and one that's easy enough to avoid.

 

8. BHs/troopers have an anti-stealth probe. Knowing about this hurts our DPS as we have to wait for it to drop before committing ourselves to an attack or wait for their GCD to activate (a very short window).

 

9. Reduce stealth's CD to 2 seconds, 1 with a talent point.

 

10. Buff stealth speed to normal. Then sprint wouldn't be needed to walk through and get in back attacks.

 

11. Improve targeting, but this applies to all classes.

 

Absolutely not.

[Bocherel]

Read the first page.

 

I don't think the OP has any idea what an exploit is.

 

LOL hitting a stealther to put them in combat is an exploit.

 

It is in this case since that game mechanic is broken, but its not the players fault its bioware fault for having so many combat bugs.

[Grubfist]

It is in this case since that game mechanic is broken, but its not the players fault its bioware fault for having so many combat bugs.

 

Except that hitting people to keep them in combat is working as intended. The mechanic isn't broken at all.

[ImpressiveSir]

Dev's please ignore the OP. I hate the L2P thing, but it's warrented in this case.

 

Whenever someone is stupid enough to attack me and not finish the job, I kill them, then re-enter stealth.

 

Simple!

[Ryotknife]

can only speak for myself, but hitting a stealther with a dot is a force of habit from wow.

 

although in this game its a bit hard to single out a stealther, attack him once, and then go back to your main target due to the horrendous targeting system.

[Grubfist]

Dev's please ignore the OP. I hate the L2P thing, but it's warrented in this case.

 

Whenever someone is stupid enough to attack me and not finish the job, I kill them, then re-enter stealth.

 

Simple!

 

Not to be mean, but if you think the Dev's listen to mindless forum QQ, I'm sad about how much you pay attention.

 

The only issues they've changed that have been on the forums are carefully discussed ones. Just because some idiots also whined about it doesn't mean it's the whines they listen to. OP is hilarious. The dev's have common sense. Dun worry, be happy.

[Philelectric]

I play an assassin and idc if some1 use a DoT on me or hit me once to keep my in combat, its part of the game and those people are smart player supporting their own team well.

 

Next time are you going to QQ because a healer use a shield and some heal? Or because an equaly geared trooper/bounty hunter kill you with the 1 key spam? (if you die to the one key spam, you are terrible if the other player do NOT outgear you hard)

[ImpressiveSir]

Not to be mean, but if you think the Dev's listen to mindless forum QQ, I'm sad about how much you pay attention.

 

The only issues they've changed that have been on the forums are carefully discussed ones. Just because some idiots also whined about it doesn't mean it's the whines they listen to. OP is hilarious. The dev's have common sense. Dun worry, be happy.

 

Tell that to the incoming heal nerf because of all the whining done about it in pvp. Now all the pve healers are getting screwed because of it.

 

Sorry guy, but every, repeat EVERY, mmo to date has changed the game too many times in mostly bad ways because of pvp QQ.

[Grubfist]

I play an assassin and idc if some1 use a DoT on me or hit me once to keep my in combat, its part of the game and those people are smart player supporting their own team well.

 

Next time are you going to QQ because a healer use a shield and some heal? Or because an equaly geared trooper/bounty hunter kill you with the 1 key spam? (if you die to the one key spam, you are terrible if the other player do NOT outgear you hard)

 

Considering I got a tracer-spammer 11 levels higher than me to 5% in a fight while questing on Tatooine, I wouldn't say gear is an excuse either.

[Turn-XGundam]

Popping someone out of stealth isn't an exploit, there are skills specifically designed for it, but hitting someone just to keep them out of stealth without actually going to fight them is. Maybe you can hit them once to bring them out, but after a few seconds of not being attacked then they should be able to stealth again.

 

keep your poncho on, hitting a stealth to keep them from stealthing without battling them is not an exploit. i called it teamplay, maybe that stealthy was gonna open up on my team's healer. healer disturbed = dead team. maybe he was gonna kill the gunslinger/sniping providing support dps.