taishartrueblood Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 We used to be one of the top DPSers with the best AE in the game. Now, even full spec, we are good DPS but not top tier and we have no real AE anymore. We have no burst. We do have longevity (we can cast forever), but if the fight is less then 20 minutes (being generous), that doesnt come int o play. Seriously. PvP or PvE, what is our role? Why should any group take us above another DPSer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meanerr Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Cuz we carry a light saber and use the force? This is a Star Wars MMO after all. If you're looking to just max your numbers may I suggest a text based game instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khadroth Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) We used to be one of the top DPSers with the best AE in the game. Now, even full spec, we are good DPS but not top tier and we have no real AE anymore. We have no burst. We do have longevity (we can cast forever), but if the fight is less then 20 minutes (being generous), that doesnt come int o play. Seriously. PvP or PvE, what is our role? Why should any group take us above another DPSer? We still have the best AE in the game. We still can be a top tier dps. We still can have burst. We just can't do it all in one spec and while on the move anymore. I think a lot of us knew a hybrid nerf was coming, we were simply outperforming all expectations, so while this nerf might be harsher than we anticipated it was mostly deserved. If you want a reason for a group to take you, just tell them: Great DPS with Bubble, Rescue, and Force Speed. If you're looking to just max your numbers may I suggest a text based game instead? There's so many things wrong with this statement I can't even begin to comment on it. Edited March 24, 2012 by Khadroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtwozero Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) We still have the best AE in the game. We still can be a top tier dps. We still can have burst. We just can't do it all in one spec and while on the move anymore. I think a lot of us knew a hybrid nerf was coming, we were simply outperforming all expectations, so while this nerf might be harsher than we anticipated it was mostly deserved. If you want a reason for a group to take you, just tell them: Great DPS with Bubble, Rescue, and Force Speed. There's so many things wrong with this statement I can't even begin to comment on it. ThIs. And There Is Still A Viable Ae Spec 4 Sage Edited March 24, 2012 by Rtwozero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NogbadAC Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I think most of us knew the hybrid spec would be nerfed, you just have to roll with the punches. I'll still be raiding, it's not that big a deal imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taishartrueblood Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 PvEers, /sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NogbadAC Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 lol I'm ranked 77 valor full bm. I'll still be warzoning just fine as well. It's really not that big a deal. Sage healing will be crappy in warzones I figure. But like any other game the good players will adapt, the bad ones will qq and reroll. Either way, I'll be on my sage makin kids cry and crushing pve content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrikestalker Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) If you're talking PvE, when I'm tanking I will always pick a sage> Juggernaut or most otherr melee classes because of the CC factor. Also, they can throw out an emergency heal or two if needed for themselves (or someone else) which is nice. They also don't have to stand in AoE damage which makes them easier to heal and they don't do stupid forceleaps into the wrong mobs and hit the oops AoE button. If you are talking PvP, I can't help you there but I'll take any class with CC over the ones that don't or get hit by too much collateral damage usually. ESPECIALLY when pugging. Edited March 24, 2012 by Shrikestalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBloom Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Frankly, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoax Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 PvEers, /sigh Because this is a pvp game? What makes it a pvp game? The massive 3 whole warzones ? or the complete lack of world pvp? or is it the poorly designed pvp gear. Or is it that the dev's are making changes that remove any pvp gear progression and making it so that grinding pvp warzones is no longer a viable cashcow? This is primarily a pve game, this has been obvious to me since my beta experiences on a pvp server. To balance classes based on pvp qq is absolute bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visue Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 The role of a DPS sage is DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visue Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Because this is a pvp game? What makes it a pvp game? The massive 3 whole warzones ? or the complete lack of world pvp? or is it the poorly designed pvp gear. Or is it that the dev's are making changes that remove any pvp gear progression and making it so that grinding pvp warzones is no longer a viable cashcow? This is primarily a pve game, this has been obvious to me since my beta experiences on a pvp server. To balance classes based on pvp qq is absolute bs. This is a fresh and original argument to see on MMO forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuSStyBottoms Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I asked this question a few weeks back and it's even more obvious now. Whose spot can we take in a Team Rated WZ? The ONLY thing we bring to the table is Rescue. And to the person saying we have the best AE skill in the game, you've never had a Focus Spec jug hit your whole team for 6-7k before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjensen Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Cuz we carry a light saber and use the force? This is a Star Wars MMO after all. If you're looking to just max your numbers may I suggest a text based game instead? he can make a free game all he need is blender = free gimp = free Unity 3d = free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taishartrueblood Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Exactly Dusty. Those who think this isnt a big deal are carebears or idiots, thier choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Because this is a pvp game? What makes it a pvp game? The massive 3 whole warzones ? or the complete lack of world pvp? or is it the poorly designed pvp gear. Or is it that the dev's are making changes that remove any pvp gear progression and making it so that grinding pvp warzones is no longer a viable cashcow? This is primarily a pve game, this has been obvious to me since my beta experiences on a pvp server. To balance classes based on pvp qq is absolute bs. Fyi, you might wanna look on to polls as to what people I've been looking forward to/wanting in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) We just can't do it all in one spec and while on the move anymore. I think a lot of us knew a hybrid nerf was coming, we were simply outperforming all expectations, so while this nerf might be harsher than we anticipated it was mostly deserved. I think sage can still play a hybrid they just lose Telekinetic wave. Mind Crush get +20% if cast following PoM, so dmg overall isn't bad at all. In fact very good for what we do, maybe even better Force management than before. I think of it as being different, but still recognisable from before. Edited March 25, 2012 by Ewgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Exactly Dusty. Those who think this isnt a big deal are carebears or idiots, thier choice. why do people use 'carebears' term for pve'ers?? I personally don't do pvp, because its too predictable and the fact is, in pve, the AI doesn't complain or rub it in your face when you win or lose, while pvp, tends to be full of that, if you win, you used an overpowered spec or class, if they win, they gloat, rub it in your face and say you suck. What is the common statement in pvp? if you win, your class is overpowered and if you lose, you suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshla Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) And to the person saying we have the best AE skill in the game, you've never had a Focus Spec jug hit your whole team for 6-7k before. Force Choke is a ~1 minute cooldown and LoLSlam is so easy to see coming/avoid/interrupt. In rated WZs, a spec so transparent and easily nuetralized will be trash. Sages have the best constant AoE ability in the game. Snipers are probably behind them if specced right. DPS Sages still bring nice CC, respectable damage, and the best off heal (Force Armor). Edited March 25, 2012 by Soshla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonKS Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I asked this question a few weeks back and it's even more obvious now. Whose spot can we take in a Team Rated WZ? We actually bring a whole hell of a lot to a WZ. We have plenty of tools at our disposal, most of us just don't use all of our tools because it's facerollingly easy to just spam TK throw till PoM procs and cast TK wave to crit 5 people for 3K plus. Truth is Sage is more of a support class, not to say we can't do good by ourselves. Sustained damage is our specially, especially as a Balanced sage. We can put a lot of pressure on a target that needs to go down, especially healers. Our CC can be very useful, even as a clutch interrupt of a heal. I fell in love with the snare on Sever Force. If my healer is getting wrecked, especially by melee, I will pull them to me shield them if they aren't already, snare, stun, and/or cc the attackers, and use my knock back when they close in. Gives the healer a bit of time to stitch themselves up again and keeps everything going. We can also throw out a few dots to help out an ally without having to completely change targets. Best of all, as a geared DPS sage, I can still crit a heal at 6.5k. Yeah there is a long cast, but when I'm on a node or door, there are no healers, and I have a tank with me using guard, I can use my utility to give me the time to get that crit off and keep that tank up till help arrives. None of this is gonna change with the minute balancing we are getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taishartrueblood Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 The fact that you think PvP is more stagnant then PvE, /boggle. That says enough right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khadroth Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Exactly Dusty. Those who think this isnt a big deal are carebears or idiots, thier choice. It's a nerf, no doubt about it. Is it a big deal? No not really. The only way you were getting massive aoe dmg was on Voidstar, which can still be similarly achieved by dotting everyone. BUT DOTS CAN BE CLEANSED! Yea but splash dmg can be healed. BUT THE HEALERS HAVE TO TAKE THE TIME TO HEAL THEM! Only another Sage/Sorc can cleanse our dots, or the target itself has to burn a valuable cooldown. So you're either forcing a healer to waste time cleansing while he dies, or you're racking up crazy dmg. If you're deep TK you still have the best aoe dps in the game. If you're balance, you can still make a living dotting others. Deal with it instead of whining imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufy Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 If you're deep TK you still have the best aoe dps in the game. If you're balance, you can still make a living dotting others. Deal with it instead of whining imo. This. Previously, there was no reason whatsoever to spec anything but 0/13/28. In 1.2, you can choose between full Balance (control), full TK (AoE, burst) or hybrid (mobile) while still doing pretty much the same single target (read: boss time) dps. What's more, all three specs will have their dedicated spot in pvp teams. More variation = good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruuprect Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I am not as concerned with the dps nerfs, I still think we will be very decent dps just not a jack of all dps. You will have to choose not what kind of dps you will be. I am concerned that seer will not be able to raid heal on HM/NiM any more. On some HM fights I am already force starved and that is with being able to NS for free. I am hoping it will not be as bad as I think it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuSStyBottoms Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Force Choke is a ~1 minute cooldown and LoLSlam is so easy to see coming/avoid/interrupt. In rated WZs, a spec so transparent and easily nuetralized will be trash. Sages have the best constant AoE ability in the game. Snipers are probably behind them if specced right. DPS Sages still bring nice CC, respectable damage, and the best off heal (Force Armor). It might be easy to interrupt someone you're 1 v 1 with but when someone comes backside and slams you for 6k it's not easy. Also when the masses of Marauders start specing for this you'll never be able to interrupt it. It's a nerf, no doubt about it. Is it a big deal? No not really. The only way you were getting massive aoe dmg was on Voidstar, which can still be similarly achieved by dotting everyone. BUT DOTS CAN BE CLEANSED! Yea but splash dmg can be healed. BUT THE HEALERS HAVE TO TAKE THE TIME TO HEAL THEM! Only another Sage/Sorc can cleanse our dots, or the target itself has to burn a valuable cooldown. So you're either forcing a healer to waste time cleansing while he dies, or you're racking up crazy dmg. If you're deep TK you still have the best aoe dps in the game. If you're balance, you can still make a living dotting others. Deal with it instead of whining imo. His agreement was to my original point concerning rated warzones. I'm not sure what numbers padding in a Voidstar has to do with anything. I don't trait TK wave for the AOE or the numbers it gets me in a Voidstar. I trait it for that extra burst to take down the healer. Burst is King and we're going to be severely lacking come 1.2. This. Previously, there was no reason whatsoever to spec anything but 0/13/28. In 1.2, you can choose between full Balance (control), full TK (AoE, burst) or hybrid (mobile) while still doing pretty much the same single target (read: boss time) dps. What's more, all three specs will have their dedicated spot in pvp teams. More variation = good. You act as if this nerf suddenly makes our other specs viable. There's a reason people were using 13/28, our full trees suck. More bad variation = bad. Edited April 4, 2012 by DuSStyBottoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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