Jedis vs Ultramarines. Siths vs Ultramarines. Who´d won ?

[ProfessorWalsh]

No, the Forces of Chaos are merely the minions to the Chaos Gods, the eternal enemy that just one of wiped out an entire galaxy spanning Empire, the type of Empire that could do basically anything you can imagine, they were called the Eldar empire, but their excessive lust and passions brought about the birth of the Chaos God Slaanesh, the prince of excess, the princess of desires and in a moment, that Empire was practically wiped out.

 

Ahem, once again, the Jedi, in FotJ the newest series fought a Chaos God. Not a minion. A GOD. Abeloth.

 

We have a precedent of Jedi taking on, and defeating, something on par with the Chaos Gods of Warhammer. Multiple times.

 

Note:

The coming of Abeloth, she had the power to, and had previously, wiped out all life in the Star Wars Galaxy. She was the literal harbinger of the apocalypse and the Jedi defeated her. This is a feat the Ultramarines have never even come close to accomplishing.

Edited March 23, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[Rayla_Felana]

Ahem, once again, the Jedi, in FotJ the newest series fought a Chaos God. Not a minion. A GOD. Abeloth.

 

We have a precedent of Jedi taking on, and defeating, something on par with the Chaos Gods of Warhammer. Multiple times.

 

You do realise what a Chaos God is right? completely omnipotent power that rules it's own realm in an eternal game of war that never ends, in the dimension known as the warp, Abeloth isn't even close to a Chaos God, a Minor god perhaps, but not on the great pantheon level.

 

They are the rulers of four different versions of hell, the embodiment of emotions, Khorne is the God of war, rage, Hate and fury. Nurgle is the god of pestilence, disease, death and life. Tzeentch is the god of magics, time and fate. I have already told you what Slaanesh is, these guys literally ate other omnipotents for breakfast, namely the Eldar Gods and the C'tan, they may have even eaten the Old Ones.

[Ivanblood]

I don't see how The Force can be overpowered, when there hasn't been any limits on what it can do. Its just there.

 

Well. Maybe the Force is not overpowered. But not all jedis posses Luke Skywalker power.

Simply let´s not shape a super jedi who incorporates all powers mentioned in the books, but those shared mostly by all jedis.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ivanblood

[Rayla_Felana]

Note:

The coming of Abeloth, she had the power to, and had previously, wiped out all life in the Star Wars Galaxy. She was the literal harbinger of the apocalypse and the Jedi defeated her. This is a feat the Ultramarines have never even come close to accomplishing.

 

The Jedi, namely Luke has never defeated Abeloth's fullpower, ever, he beat her in some duels here and there but he never faced her full might before, not once, he beat her in a few forms sure, but not wipe out all life level Abeloth, I have read Fate of the Jedi myself.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well. Maybe the Force is not overpowered. But not all jedis posses Luke Skywalker power.

Simply let´s not shape a super jedi who incorporates all powers mentioned in the books, but those shared mostly by all jedis.

 

True not all jedi have Luke's power, but that doesn't mean they still can't gain more power over time in some way they may not be able to get as strong as Luke but even so its not impossible to gain more knowledge.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Ivanblood]

None of the abilities were solely used by Luke Skywalker that I demonstrated. Barv, Jaina Solo, Jacen Solo, Ganner, and many more.

 

We can't really exclude Jedi powers from a fight where Jedi are present. Unless you want to get to how unrealistic and impossible the powers presented in Warhammer are. Warhammer is all about the power creep and each book and supplement they come up with just jacks that even further out of the realm of reality.

 

So long as you are going to use the Ultramarines at full power then we have the right to use Jedi at full power.

 

It´s just a suggestion. The idea is to to pit a standard powerful jedi against an ultramarine and not force masters against a simple ultramarine. In the latter case, we should search a match between the champions/heroes in the ultramarine universe.

Equally, it is just a suggestion.

 

The same rules for the ultramarines. Don´t cite the emperor and other champions powers.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ivanblood

[KorinHyvek]

Couple of key points that need to be discussed;

 

1) Do anti-psyker Defenses affect the force? If they do, the sudden irregularity of their force powers while in range of a Librarian would be crippling, simply because of the surprise factor. As far as the psyker vs. force user question goes, it's no contest. Psykers are capable of brainwashing someone if they hear a single word from their mouth, reducing someone to their constituent atoms with a thought, etc. Now, these are the upper limits here, but then people get to throw those around for jedi, too. Your average Librarian is probably at least on par with a Jedi Master.

 

2) How effective is the Marine's armor? How would Ceramite interact with a lightsaber? I'd hesitantly assign lightsaber's power-weapon status, but certainly nothing more than that. On the other hand, I can totally see reducing them to just regular close combat weapons, too. Chainswords are, and they're even more destructive than they sound. I think most people will agree, though, that Iron Halos, Storm Shields, and the Energy Shields on Terminator armor are effective against a lightsaber. I think it's also safe to say that the energy field of a power weapon would protect it from a lightsaber, which makes it the superior weapon (The extra mass, combined with the sheer strength of a space marine, would leave any jedi hard pressed to avoid having the saber knocked out of their hands).

 

3) Scale: Are we talking the entire 1300 or so Ultramarines in the chapter*, their dreadnaughts, and all their armored support? If that's the case, you're going to need like... over two thousand jedi to even the scales. And an army won't cut it. Marines shrug off lasgun fire like they where being targeted by a flashlight, and the imperial Lasgun makes a blaster look like a musket. Are we talking a single company? Which one? (keep in mind that the Ultramarine's 1st and 2nd Companies are some of the finest fighting forces in a galaxy that has dedicated itself to grinding out the most ******, over the top super soldiers for over 10 thousand years)

 

4) Are these random extras, or named Jedi.

 

 

*The first nine companies have 10 squads of 10 Battle Brothers, but that doesn't count the command squad, the chaplain, dreadnaughts, 2 marines to each Rhino, the techmarines, the librarians, 3 marines to the 1st company's landraider, or the marines in the actual tanks. Also, the tenth company doesn't actually have a set size, and since, like crusading chapters such as the Blood Ravens, Imperial Fists, and Black Templars, the Ultramarines have a much larger pool of recruits**, the Ultramarine's 10th company actually runs well over 200 most of the time.

** They recruit from every planet in the realm of Ultramar.

 

TLDR: Too many variables in the current scenario. Better scenario would be, say, Marneus Calgar vs. Darth Malgus.

 

EDIT: Chaos gods... Look, you're making the mistake of assuming what the Chaos Gods do in the stories we read is all they can do. The reason the Chaos Gods haven't wiped out all life in the galaxy is a) That's suicidal, given that mortal emotion and worship fuels their existence, and b) They really don't give a piece of dog crap about what goes on in the physical world beyond their limited scope. That's part of the reason Chaos Cultists do such extreme things; It's their only hope of catching their god's attention for about half a second, in the hopes that their god will make them a demon before they're reduced to a gibbering chaos spawn. If the Chaos Gods could actually motivate themselves to use their full power, they could probably spontaneously turn a planet into delicious cake. I don't think LotF's eldritch abomination is in that league.

Edited March 23, 2012 by KorinHyvek

[STD_Skindancer]

Force crush, force storm. Just saying...........

 

opening video to dawn of war 2, lightning tosser took a chain sword to the gut. just saying

 

 

Jedi can be much further away than 4 meters while using their Force abilities. Jedi would also sense the air drop and be prepared. Both of these factors would allow Jedi to either rip the weapons right out of the Marines hands or simply cause them to malfunction. And the jetpacks...those can be detonated using Force powers.

 

There is also the fact that Jedi will use ranged weapons of their own. With the Force on their side they are deadly accurate. Don't restrict the Force users to just their sabers, you are trying to stack the deck against them otherwise. Since this is an opinion thread...Force Users for the win.

 

i doubt that jedi would be able to rip the weapon out of a space marine's hand regardless of how strong he is with the force and even IF they caused a chain sword to malfunction it is still a really big and heavy club. as for sensing an air drop of assault marines...not really since jedi would be engaged with one squad already as a distraction, THEN they would be trampled to death by assault marines.

 

 

pound for pound jedi (even with the republic backing them up) lose pretty handily at any range.

 

First Company Ultramarines, nuff said.

[ProfessorWalsh]

First Company Ultramarines, nuff said.

 

Jaina Sword of the Jedi Solo would kill the First Company no problem. Alone. Without backup. 'nuff Said.

[Rayla_Felana]

Jaina Sword of the Jedi Solo would kill the First Company no problem. Alone. Without backup. 'nuff Said.

 

Are you kidding? You may want to do some serious lore digging about the First Company and realise why they would laugh at Solo, First Company are widely regarded as the best Space Marines company in the galaxy, they are ALL veterans, they are best of the best Space Marines, they make other Space Marines look like Cadian Guard.

[DeathShadoww]

So lets just say this is a Chapter of your average Space Marines versus an equal force of your average Jedi. Ill just bullet off a few points and facts.

 

1.) Psyker versus Force: Both probally cant really affect the other to a degree but both would be extremely deadly. They operate off of differant principles the warp and well the force. A lone Pysker is most likely more deadly to a mass of soldiers than a force user due to the fact that he just has to mutter a word and they will break down mumbling and brainwashed. I highly doubt a force user could use any mind effect on a Marine due to their immense willpower and fanatical devotion to the Imperium. A force user also can not rip out a weapon from a marines hand as has been seen in the movies the more force required the more you will have to focus and these weapons and marines are extremely heavy and the marine is frankly brutally (Superhuman) strong. He could bludgeon a Jedi to death with his fists alone.

 

2.) Light Sabers: Yes they would cut through many materials. Power weapons would be a no as they are sheathed in energy. Power armour yes and no it would take time theres now way its going through that like butter.

 

3.) Blasters versus War 40k weaponry: As stated earlier a blaster is a musket compared to an imperial soldiers lasgun. A Bolter with all the differant ammo types and the foremost being explosive causes problems for the jedi deflecting the shots as well.

 

4.) Jedi Sense: This is were all theyre close combat advantage pretty much comes from. Its what allows them to deal with the super human speed of a Marine however due to them not being as fast this balances out and it really comes down to sheer skill. Marines in most cases have the upper hand. Id love to see a Jedi force push a marine but thats like force pushing a boulder takes some effort and it would also leave them open.

 

5.) Vehicles: No contest war 40k, for example vindicators would rip apart the enemy's

 

6.) Strategy: Ill include battle meld here however the average jedi is most likely incapable of using battle meditation as well as the fact even normal marines are on that morale level that they could be boosted to anyway. Battle meld would allow the Jedi to react faster to changing situations in the battle field however the marines have better tactics due to their decades fighting hundred of differant enemies across the galaxy.

 

7.) Raw unmodified power: without the force a Jedi (or Sith) is nothing. A marine without his armour and even his weapons could kill a armed Jedi if he was cut off from the force. A space marine is a super soldier they would pull a jedis arms off like a wookie does for entertainment.

 

I dont think I missed anything, feel free to point out flaws in this logic but to me it is clear to me that in a LAND battle between ordinary foe from each side the Space Marines would win, with heavy losses of course. So no Jedi master or Luke Skywalker referances here unless an equal Warhammer 40k Champion is used in comparison. For instance the Emperor or a Primarch.

[STD_Skindancer]

Jaina Sword of the Jedi Solo would kill the First Company no problem. Alone. Without backup. 'nuff Said.

 

it wouldnt even be a fight vs the first company's captain.

[Aximand]

40k is literally war and nothing else, no other fictional universe has the same intensity of battle, Jedi and/or Sith would be a vacation compared to their regular opponents.

 

Pretty much this. Every Space Marine except for scout initiates (in Ultramarine ranks, anyway) is at least a twenty year veteran of the the most hellish, mind breaking, disgusting and insanity inducing war that you could possibly imagine. They fight aliens that make the Vong look nice and reasonable on an almost constant basis, and we haven't even gotten to the demons yet.

 

As it stands, a Jedi or Sith just wouldn't be able to comprehend the amount of violence that the average Marine sees in their first fifty years of service.

 

And lets not forget that the average Warhammer 40K psyker literally destroys reality in their immediate vicinity every time they use their powers, and the higher end of them (not getting into the Emperor's level yet) are able to rip planets in half with their brains. On accident.

 

The imperium has no hyperdrive technology. Republic forces could simply attack undefended planets with impunity and jump out without retaliation. They have no planetary shields either. A hyperspace fleet could jump into the sol system, bombard earth with asteroids, then jump to mars and then repeat while imperial crusiers take hours to reposition. Also it would take centuries for reionforcements to arrive...i think entire galactic armies have been mobilized in as little as two years in star wars

 

That's the thing with 40K, there are no undefended systems. Every star system in the galaxy has dedicated patrols and a planetary defense force with orbital strike capabilities. And if you want to attack Sol, you better bring every ship ever made by whichever government (Republic or Empire) is attacking it to even get past Saturn, because you won't get much further than that.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Aximand

[Aximand]

The fall of the Ultramarines:

 

Preface:

I will be using the full might of the Jedi on this one. I'll be using the Force Powers as depicted by the novels and the EU. I will assume that the wizards on the side of the Ultramarines can stop any "direct" wipe out attack used by the Jedi like a thought bomb or simply mind-melting the entire Ultramarine forces.

 

Force Powers that the Ultramarines cannot counter however are three very big ones. The first being Battle Meditation and the second being Battle Meld and the third being Surrender to the Force.

 

Battle Meditation affects the probabilities and the morale of people in combat. It would be much weaker against the Ultramarines because the negative effects on the marines would be mitigated by their wizards. The morale of the Jedi, however, would be highly raised.

 

Space Marines can't feel fear. At all. Its genetically and physiologically impossible for them to feel fear or be demoralized.

 

Another power that would swing this is the Battle Meld. This is when Jedi enter into a hive mind state. Jedi combat efficiency continues to raise the more people who are part of the meld. It gives the Jedi, who already possess an incredible battle sense, even more capabilities to detect to, and react to, threats. On top of this they can coordinate attacks and movements at the speed of thought.

 

This one won't really be as much of an issue as you seem to think it is, Ultramarines repelled an invasion from an absolutely massive (it would have devoured the entire Star Wars Galaxy massive) force of Hive Mind linked super alien bugs that are more horrendous than anything the Jedi could ever come up with. In short, they've seen it before.

 

Surrender to the Force is another nasty ability. This particular ability is the trump card. A Jedi who fully surrenders to the Force becomes virtually unstoppable. By this we mean all aspects of the Jedi are magnified to frightening levels. We have witnessed lone Jedi defeating entire armies of Yuuzahn Vong, including artillery and tanks, while in this state, personally killing over a thousand enemies in one skirmish.

 

As it stands, a Space Marine Librarian could do exactly the same thing if they wanted to, and in fact they have before. The Ultramarine head Librarian is considered one of the most powerful psykers in the galaxy.

 

Some of the feats demonstrated while in this state:

 

• Superhuman speed. (Luke Skywalker was able to move so fast he appeared to vanish. We are talking DBZ levels of speed here.)
  
• Superhuman strength. (In this state both Luke, Ganner, and Jacen Solo exhibited extreme amounts of strength.)
  
• Superhuman stamina. (Jedi in this state do not become tired.)
  
• Superhuman Force abilities. (Ganner was throwing tanks and huge statues in his state.)
  
• Immunity to pain and injury. (Jedi who perform this technique are immune to any pain, or the effects of any injury for the duration. Examples include: Functioning rationally and without a drop in combat prowess after losing part of the brain, immunity to poison, fatal wounds such as pierced vital organs such as hearts and lungs, removed limbs, and more.)
  

 

Half of this list is what the average Space Marine possesses just as a matter of course. They have superhuman speed, they have superhuman strength, they don't need to sleep for weeks on end, they literally can not feel pain unless half of their chest is blasted open and they're missing most of their major organs, to which they have backup organs that will keep them alive and fighting. In fact, the only one that the average Space Marine doesn't have is the super mind powers.

 

So when the Ultramarines are attacked by battle melded Jedi who are moving so fast that they are theoretically operating faster than light who can predict attacks and can see/sense through every other Jedi there and the Jedi are bolstered by an immunity to fear and all other Jedi abilities are bolstered to insane levels there is nothing they can do. Ultramarines don't possess anything that lets them realistically fight enemies with those capabilities. They won't even have a range advantage because the Jedi can move and close the distance before the Marines can even register with their eyes where they are. On top of that, even if a Marine got lucky enough to blow half of a Jedi's head off we saw in Barv's case that losing half of his brain did not effect him until his body was literally vaped.

 

The Ultramarines fight enemies with those capabilities every day, its their job to do so, its exactly what they were created to do.

 

Edit:

 

To add - Luke Skywalker, using the Force, was capable of defeating a full on Celestial (a God) in single combat. I am pretty sure that a Force User could give a Psyker a run for their money. Note that Jedi can also instantaneously teleport (it is an Aiing Tii monk technique) over any distance and theoretically can travel backwards through time to witness events of the distant past.

 

The God Emperor of Mankind (because that's what Luke is comparable to) has been holding back the corrupting influence of three deities that would, if they were allowed by him, destroy the very fabric of reality and remake existence in their own image. For ten thousand years. While dying. Without using his full attention. While he was watching over billions of individual lives across the galaxy. And he was still coherent enough to give instructions to his attendants at the Golden Throne. On top of all this, he still had the strength left over to stop time for a while to talk to Inquisitor Draco uninterrupted.

 

I hate to do this to you, Walsh, but I'll do it because I don't think you understand the 40K universe as well as you do the Star Wars universe. Answers are in green.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Aximand

[Belarrasus]

This thread is redundant.

TROLL FACE vs. EPIC FACE

JERSEY SHORE vs. HARRY POTTER

CAPTAIN AMERICA vs. WHATEVER BULLSH*T SUPERHERO I CREATED IN MY MIND

 

^BULLSH*T SUPERHERO WINS!! I gave him all powerz!!

[Aximand]

This thread is redundant.

TROLL FACE vs. EPIC FACE

JERSEY SHORE vs. HARRY POTTER

CAPTAIN AMERICA vs. WHATEVER BULLSH*T SUPERHERO I CREATED IN MY MIND

 

^BULLSH*T SUPERHERO WINS!! I gave him all powerz!!

 

If you don't like it don't read it. I for one actually enjoy debating these things from time to time.

 

The neckbeard is strong with this one.

[Ivanblood]

So lets just say this is a Chapter of your average Space Marines versus an equal force of your average Jedi. Ill just bullet off a few points and facts.

 

1.) Psyker versus Force: Both probally cant really affect the other to a degree but both would be extremely deadly. They operate off of differant principles the warp and well the force. A lone Pysker is most likely more deadly to a mass of soldiers than a force user due to the fact that he just has to mutter a word and they will break down mumbling and brainwashed. I highly doubt a force user could use any mind effect on a Marine due to their immense willpower and fanatical devotion to the Imperium. A force user also can not rip out a weapon from a marines hand as has been seen in the movies the more force required the more you will have to focus and these weapons and marines are extremely heavy and the marine is frankly brutally (Superhuman) strong. He could bludgeon a Jedi to death with his fists alone.

 

2.) Light Sabers: Yes they would cut through many materials. Power weapons would be a no as they are sheathed in energy. Power armour yes and no it would take time theres now way its going through that like butter.

 

3.) Blasters versus War 40k weaponry: As stated earlier a blaster is a musket compared to an imperial soldiers lasgun. A Bolter with all the differant ammo types and the foremost being explosive causes problems for the jedi deflecting the shots as well.

 

4.) Jedi Sense: This is were all theyre close combat advantage pretty much comes from. Its what allows them to deal with the super human speed of a Marine however due to them not being as fast this balances out and it really comes down to sheer skill. Marines in most cases have the upper hand. Id love to see a Jedi force push a marine but thats like force pushing a boulder takes some effort and it would also leave them open.

 

5.) Vehicles: No contest war 40k, for example vindicators would rip apart the enemy's

 

6.) Strategy: Ill include battle meld here however the average jedi is most likely incapable of using battle meditation as well as the fact even normal marines are on that morale level that they could be boosted to anyway. Battle meld would allow the Jedi to react faster to changing situations in the battle field however the marines have better tactics due to their decades fighting hundred of differant enemies across the galaxy.

 

7.) Raw unmodified power: without the force a Jedi (or Sith) is nothing. A marine without his armour and even his weapons could kill a armed Jedi if he was cut off from the force. A space marine is a super soldier they would pull a jedis arms off like a wookie does for entertainment.

 

I dont think I missed anything, feel free to point out flaws in this logic but to me it is clear to me that in a LAND battle between ordinary foe from each side the Space Marines would win, with heavy losses of course. So no Jedi master or Luke Skywalker referances here unless an equal Warhammer 40k Champion is used in comparison. For instance the Emperor or a Primarch.

 

Pretty good comparing. Very sound. With this and Aximand´s post I think ultramarines are gaining an upper hand.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Ivanblood

[Aximand]

Pretty good comparing. Very sound. With this I think ultramarines are gaining an upper hand.

 

Hey, since you're the OP I got a question. Are you talking about end of the 41st Millennium Ultramarines or Great Crusade Ultramarines? This is pretty important because the end of the 41st Millennium Ultramarines have a fraction of the numbers they did during the Great Crusade.

[Ivanblood]

Hey, since you're the OP I got a question. Are you talking about end of the 41st Millennium Ultramarines or Great Crusade Ultramarines? This is pretty important because the end of the 41st Millennium Ultramarines have a fraction of the numbers they did during the Great Crusade.

 

This is a good question. I think as we pit ultramarines against the Old Republic jedis, the golden age of jedis, then we should take Great Crusade Ultramarines.

 

Equally we can consider both of them and see which ones withstand the clash.

[Aximand]

This is a good question. I think as we pit ultramarines against the Old Republic jedis, the golden age of jedis, then we should take Great Crusade Ultramarines.

 

Equally we can consider both of them and see which ones withstand the clash.

 

If you go Great Crusade then the Jedi are even more boned. There were hundreds of thousands of Ultramarines when the Great Crusade was happening. But since we're going golden age vs golden age you can't cripple one over the other.

 

Not only are the Ultramarines way more numerous during the Great Crusade, they're also being led by their Primarch, who is basically a living demi-god.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ok I don't really know anything bout WK40, but thanks for making me hate ultramarines now...they sound stupidly overpowered I would choose bigger words cause stupidly overpowered doesn't seem to cut it. Edited March 24, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aximand]

Ok I don't really know anything bout WK40, but thanks for making me hate ultramarines now...they sound stupidly overpowered I would choose bigger words cause stupidly overpowered doesn't seem to cut it.

 

The Ultramarines are basically the Mary-Sue's of the Space Marine Chapters. But if you're talking about the whole Great Crusade numbers thing, you need to remember they were just one legion of Space Marines that were fighting to take back an entire galaxy from aliens, demons and deviant humans. They needed the numbers because they were literally Humanities' first line of offense against the forces that were keeping them from galactic domination.

 

If you're talking about what Space Marines are capable of in general, you need to realize the setting. 40K takes place in a time where, basically, everything is dying. Constantly.

 

There are the Orks that, the more conflict they take part in, the bigger and stronger they get. They have the "WAAAAGH!", which is basically a gestalt psychic phenomena that, if they want something to happen, and enough Orks believe it to be true, then it will happen. As an example, all Orks believe that red paint makes vehicles move faster. If an Ork paints a vehicle red, and another Ork paints one green, and everything else is exactly identical, the red one will go faster. This isn't even touching on their reproductive cycle. They're a fungus/mammal hybrid that was created by an ancient super-advanced race in order to protect them from the Necrons and the Eldar, the only problem is that this race died out before the Orks were perfected. When an Ork dies, spores are released from their body that float away and plant themselves in dank, wooded dark forests or mountainous regions. The spores from just one Ork dying are enough to completely restart an infestation.

 

After them you have the Eldar who are a hyper advanced race of what are basically space elves that live on floating planets that make the Death Stars seem tiny in comparison. These guys are led by Fareseers that, if given the chance, would sacrifice a billion Human lives to save just two Eldar from death, without hesitation or remorse.

 

Now you have the Necrons who are an ancient race of robotic automatons that up until the most recent codex were basically machine slaves of old Gods hell bent on the complete and utter destruction of all living things in the galaxy. All of them, no exceptions. Now they're the former slaves of the Star Gods that rebelled after being turned into said automatons and imprisoned their old Gods in vast machines to use as they see fit. And they usually see fit by destroying other races.

 

As if the Necrons and Orks weren't bad enough you have Tyranid Hive Fleets (here's a picture, that's the Milky Way and that's just one Hive Fleet) that have consumed an estimated twelve galaxies worth of matter before making it to the Milky Way. The Tyranid's are basically evolution on crack with some speed, cocaine and Ritalin thrown in for good measure. The reason Tyranid Close Combat and Ranged units can breach Space Marine armor so easily, is because they were evolved specifically to breach said armor after the first Hive Fleet, Behemoth, was repelled by the Ultramarines at the Battle for Macragge. And it wasn't a change that took place after the fleet was repelled, it was happening during the entire campaign.

 

Finally, after all of that, you have the Forces of Chaos who are basically the most vile, degenerate scum that this sort of Galaxy could produce, given super demonic powers (sometimes immortality in the form of Demonhood) and their only goal at all is the complete and utter destruction of the Imperium of Man. They're basically Space Marines and Guardsmen that defected, only tougher because the Gods that they worship like to screw with their biology and mutate them into horrific killing machines that can tear a man in half with their bare hands. And that's just the regular mutants, not even the Chaos Space Marines.

 

I haven't even touched on the Dark Eldar (Chaos worshiping Eldar) or the Tau yet. In this nightmarish mish mash of races all vying for either Galactic domination or the extermination of any and all life, the Imperium of Man and, by association, the Space Marines are actually the under dogs. There's a reason that 40K fans come out of the woodwork when threads like this are started, because unless you grasp the whole scope of the setting, you'll never understand just why Space Marines are so overpowered when compared to other fandoms. They need to be Overpowered just to survive day in and day out, and by the time they get to Veteran status (one hundred years of constant never ending service), they are pretty much some of the most perfect killing machines in the entire Science Fiction/Fantasy genre.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Aximand

[Rayla_Felana]

Ok I don't really know anything bout WK40, but thanks for making me hate ultramarines now...they sound stupidly overpowered I would choose bigger words cause stupidly overpowered doesn't seem to cut it.

 

No, against other galaxies they may seem that way, within the boundaries of their galaxy, they are perfectly plausible, they were born to repel any invaders, battle is what they were created for, they are made from the gene-seed of their Primarchs, whom in turn are the twenty sons of the God Emperor.

[Wolfninjajedi]

No, against other galaxies they may seem that way, within the boundaries of their galaxy, they are perfectly plausible, they were born to repel any invaders, battle is what they were created for, they are made from the gene-seed of their Primarchs, whom in turn are the twenty sons of the God Emperor.

 

Stupidly...overpowered still. Which is why I stated before, don't understand why this thread needed to be brought up again if its heavily one sided anyway. This is why there should be VS threads within this universe and never any crossovers, because crossover threads never work and in this universe you could judge it more fairly seeing as both sides are from the same work. Therefore, you know what the technology does to one another on both ends.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[nachoman_randy]

Jedi were exterminated by clone troopers.

 

Space Marines own clone troopers.

 

Space Marines will own jedi or at very least: a single Space Marine will be a real match for a single Jedi.

Edited March 24, 2012 by nachoman_randy