Tattum Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Before I start, I'll just type in the fact that I'm almost pure PVP players so this comes from PVP perspective.. Well looking at the talent tree, enraged defence skill etc, I must say it might be worth going vengeance tree.. I myself am a rage spec jugg but I'm also pissed off from 1.2 changes but what can we do.. I'm thinking instead of stacking str/power/surge to stack str/power/crit/and a bit of surge Entire rage tree is based on smash and force scream (in a way) and since they get lets say 30% nerf (overally overlooking damage because of the cooldowns and additional 10% smash damage redution) I guess going vengeance and learning new tree is the only solution.. I mean, you can still hit like a truck with rage, since most of the battles (except for Voidstar , not sure about new Warzone) don't last entire duration of the match , you can hit hard once in a while and assuming that average fight lasts from 30 sec to 1,5 minute (assuming that not all the time WZ is filled up with healers - although in ranked Warzones, this might be tricky), even withouth CD nerf on force abilities, you don't get to use smash like 20 times, not to mention that half skilled enemy player can anticipate smash comming from you (and aswell can see the freakishly long animation before it actually hits), you can easily get pushed away , stunned or enemies can just run away from the smash and your smash becomes useless... I might be wrong .. I'm making this thread because up until now I was fully focused on rage tree, stacking stats , skills etc to let my jug do the highest damage outcome that Rage Jugg can possibly do and I never thought that this day would come for me to think about Vengeance and I'd like to see some intel from others (skilled with vengeance or not, doesn't matter, I wanna see opinions) I was looking for Vengeance threads on forums, maybe I just wasn't looking enough but I didn't find any such thread... /discuss.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reli_BOON Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Welcome the True Dark Side brother. Glad you will join us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevorlohr Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Never again will you have to worry about your main damage dealer hitting because of server lag, knock backs, random stuns, and other stuff that can piss a guy off. That being said, you won't see those huge crits. You will see impale crits hit for roughly 2-3k(just champ gear). Follow that with you, basically, auto crit scream which I have gotten 2.5k medals off of. Shatter feels lame but still has some oomph behind it. Oh, and laughable dots that are free damage and only there for damage buffers. And what that other guy said about the true Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godagun Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I played rage but wasnt my thing. I switched to veng to give it a shot and I loved it. I may not do huge spikes anymore but you still deal close to what you do with rage except in chunks. whats even better is the survivability. When I was playing rage if my smash doesnt finish offmy opponents on 2v1 I was toast. im sure its not the case for some players but like I said rage wasn't my thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattum Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 i`m doing unbuffed class calculations with top WH gear (mods,ench choosen for rage and vengeance separatly) and looking for the differences those caultulations are w/o couting talents (basicly they show your pure unbuffed untalented dmg,crti chance/dmg,armor reduction,hp etc ) i`ll post in my excel soon.. already got math done for rage, but still tryin to figure out what ench/mods to choose for vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattum Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) http://uploading.com/files/a9ed82ee/War%2BHero%2Bgear%2B-%2BSTATS%2B-%2BVinndex%2B%2528Legions%2BOf%2BLettow%2529.xls/ Here they are... Shouldn't be problem to open in any version of excel.. If you want to compare rage and vengeance, simply switch Worksheets, there is one for each spec. Didn't count in the augments (Don't know what are going to be top stats for augments, but I guess for highest dmg outcome we'd all choose strenght onces) If you scroll down a bit you have forumals and completed calculations of all stats you need to know (For the curret gear) - keep in mind this excludes talent points, buffs, adrenals etc. There is also the amount of WZ AND ranked WZ commendations that you need to get that gear considering that you just hitted lvl 50 and have no battlemaster gear (counted on prices of the gear as of today the 24th March) If you have any suggestions how to improve that file OR any of my calculations, feel free to post, I'm awaiting criticism anyway.. Also , if you have any idea which mods/ench would be better for VENGEACE spec, also I'd like to hear that. EDIT : There is a mistake in crit chance and crit damage formulas (both specs) Edited March 24, 2012 by Tattum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordVilos Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Do not listen to what nubs say about Juggers. I love my Jugger and yes I have a 50 Marauder also. My Jugger will always be my main. I play DPS spec of Vengeance. I LOVE it. to be honest it is a bit like a feral druid in wow. Vengeance has a higher skill cap than Rage. in 1.2 Venge will be even better. With Vengeance spec much like a Feral druid in wow you have to stack you bleeds correctly and use Shatter and Impale correctly. ALL I do is PvP so I have no clue how it is in PvE except it was easy as hell to level as Venge. After playing a Feral druid for around 5years in wow ever since BC, Vengeance spec just fits my playstyle more. What I love about it is I dont NOT have to stay on top of someone like I do my marauder. I stack my DOTs one one guy turn to the next than rinse repeat. I live 70% longer on my Jugger too. What good is a marauders damage if you die too fast to use it. In premade WZ you get focused as a Marauder as much a the healer. Those double sabers just scream KILL ME NOW. In PvP if played correctly a Vengeance Jugger can me one of the most useful tools in the shed. Like I said that spec has a higher skill cap than Rage spec so the random nubs do not play it. If you are good at PvP, did well in pvp in 5s in WoW you will love it. PS... I fully agree with the "binds comment" I use the Razer Nagga one of the best investments I ever made. I have about 30+ keys bound to that mouse by using shift+alt and whatnot it is well worth the money. Much like in wow you can spot keyboard turners a mile away and they are just bad... just bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) You live longer because most people ignore venge juggs. they are more concerned about that marauder that can kill them much faster. BTW, marauders can throws their dots on someone and then attack someone else. Their dots will also do more damage and heal them, along with snaring them. They do it better. 1.2 they will also smash bomb better. Edited April 5, 2012 by Noth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 After 1.2, Jugs should all go Rage Mara! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Sookie Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Duel a well known rage juggernaut as vengeance and come back and tell me it's "good". Or duel any healer for that matter. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokithevicious Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I played vengeance for a bit, and I was pretty let down. Do you have a bit more survivability? Of course, but as a single target dps that dots you're much better off as an anni mara. I also didn't like that I practically had to be on top of my opponent to be able use my abilities. I'll give rage a try post 1.2, then switch to vengeance and if I don't like either I'll retire him. I could go immortal spec but lets face it, if you want to tank assassins or powertechs do it so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I wouldn't mind Vengeance if it wasn't such a damn boring spec to play. It's quite literally Jump target -> rotate 1,2,3,4 until dead. Toss in a few Master Strikes for good measure. Rise, repeat. I could play it with a game-pad. At least Rage requires smart positioning and good proc-management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmanIncognito Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I wouldn't mind Vengeance if it wasn't such a damn boring spec to play. It's quite literally Jump target -> rotate 1,2,3,4 until dead. Toss in a few Master Strikes for good measure. Rise, repeat. I could play it with a game-pad. At least Rage requires smart positioning and good proc-management. Hahaha, I feel the same way. I spend a few hundred thousand credits a week respeccing back and forth on my BM Jugg. I have played each spec over and over again and no matter what I do I just cant get the numbers and feel as usefull in vengeance. Being a single target class they should usually try and stick to enemy healers and take them out of the game. Problem is, they can usually ignore you because with some skills or a little cross healing you cant burst them down nearly fast enough for a kill. As a rage jugg you can greatly slow the movement speed of the opposing ball carrier and then take out a large chunk of the entire teams life leaving their healers frustrated trying to replenish all that lost Hp. Also, rage juggs CAN burst a healer down fast enough to be an effective healer hunter. The patch will bring rage damage down a bit but will keep dps around the same level when adding in those well timed buffed ravages and vicious slashes. Overall the jugg is very fun and allthough lacking good defensive cds like maras, we get skills like intercede, taunts, and FORCE PUSH! Rage > Vengeance pre and post 1.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Vengeance has always been strong and rage has been as well. I hate shoveling out the ad hominem, but people that don't succeed with it obviously aren't trying to min-max it enough or just aren't very interested in shifting their paradigm. Ravage hits insanely hard now, too hard in my personal opinion (I've seen vengeance juggs streaming from the PTR get 7k+ crits on dummies with the third tick and 3-5k on the other two). With the change to vicious throw, we have a MUCH larger threat window now to work with and to kill players off with which is quite nice. That being said, hybrid juggernaut specs like 16/23/2 or 18/23/0 look to be the true kings of the patch. Access to unstoppable, invincible, force grip, impale AND force rush? Good luck peeling me... or trying to kill me if I'm headed to cap the ball... or if I'm defending my allies. My worry is that with how absurdly good ravage is, bioware might pull a blizzard and nerf unrelated things which would make life a lot harder for us juggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) After 1.2, Jugs should all go Rage Mara! With the buff to Ravage i dont see why. Vengence is gonna hurt more than it already does. I wouldn't mind Vengeance if it wasn't such a damn boring spec to play. It's quite literally Jump target -> rotate 1,2,3,4 until dead. Toss in a few Master Strikes for good measure. Rise, repeat. I could play it with a game-pad. At least Rage requires smart positioning and good proc-management. It really isnt that simple. If thats how you're doing it you're beeing too slow. There is no rotation, only priorities. And after the patch Ravage is probably gonna go up top in the priority list forcing you to react to the cd reset proc. Edited April 6, 2012 by Nemmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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