Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Jenovan]

This was from a post that got locked because apparently I'm supposed to think that my voice will get heard in this monster of a thread:

 

I keep seeing talks about same gender relationships, in game (gen chat, guild, etc.) And I just wanted to put my opinion out there.

 

A character is made up of a few things. Their personal history. Their personality. How they react to certain situations. Their sexuality.

 

I say this, because I think it's kind of insulting to a character, and the people who created him or her, to simply slap "Bisexual" onto every character with romance-able options. Sexuality is part of who a person is.

 

Mass Effect kind of addressed this in the last game. Instead of making it so a guy could go get it on with Garrus or Kaiden, or a lady to go strip Tally of her exo-suit, they gave same-sex options instead. There was a gay man, a lesbian woman, and a bisexual woman. In the first two games, women could have relationships with Liara, but that's because she is bisexual. Most people in her species are.

 

I think that changing a characters sexuality, or even making it more fluid, changes who they are. And I know it would be easier for game designers to assuage concerns by simply making the characters they already have be the same-sex options, but I don't think that gives well-established characters justice. If you're going to make same-sex romance options, I think it should be introduced in the form of whole new characters. I know that would be incredibly difficult, and could change the story-lines, but if you're going to do something like that, atleast do it all the way instead of half-a**ing it.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Time to dredge up the relevant dev quote again! Here's Daniel Erickson at the Guild Summit in March:

 

This is an interesting one because it sort of lit up, and we didn't honestly -- if we should give an update on it every single time -- We've always said the same thing with it, which is that it's coming, and it's coming with story updates. And we totally understand when people hear "soon", um, maybe I should have put the TM next to it that, "writer Soon"? The writers have a much, much larger lead time than you would expect, and we wanna do any of this stuff right. We heard suggestions, and we do read the stuff, and let's talk a little about the stuff we were not willing to do. We were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling.

 

When we do this, we wanna do it right, we wanna do it with the characters that make sense, that we always knew that we wanted to do it for those, so you guys know and we've talked about it before, it ended up being a budget and scheduling issue. There are romance arcs that we wanted to do that didn't make it in the game, we knew which characters (I'm not gonna tell you)... [some audience joking about characters] So the short answer is, it's never changed, it's still coming, it's coming when full story comes, and when is full story coming? This year. So we are still on track.

 

So it seems to be that they don't want to "just make everyone bi" (his mention of swapping the dialogue). Whether that means that not all current LIs will be made available, or if they all will but it will be done very carefully, we don't know yet, but it seems like they want to make SGRs work in a meaningful, sensible way. Not by "half-***ing" it.

[JediElf]

So it seems to be that they don't want to "just make everyone bi" (his mention of swapping the dialogue). Whether that means that not all current LIs will be made available, or if they all will but it will be done very carefully, we don't know yet, but it seems like they want to make SGRs work in a meaningful, sensible way. Not by "half-***ing" it.

 

It''ll be worth the wait when it comes. *nods*

 

I know for myself I'm trying not to become to impatient, it's not easy (I've had bouts of frustration, and feeling like it'll never happen), but I'm confident we'll see them eventually....and when they do arrive I want to hold a huge dance party on my Fleet, all are invited. ^_^

Edited May 23, 2012 by JediElf

[chimunga]

I disagree. Being introvert or extravert is part of someone's personality. Who they like to have sex with, is not.

 

Firstly, it'd be nice if the word "bisexual" wasn't tossed so lightly everytime. In DA2, for example, Isabela was "bi". Was Merrill bi ? Really ? She was just available as a romance option for both genders.

And how, exactly, being bisexual is insulting to a character ?

 

I knew this argument would pop up the second I posted it. I'm pretty obvious in my post that I have no problem with non-heteroes. So please don't take it out of context to make it seem like I do. The word bisexual is not being thrown around. It's the word for someone who is willing, and happy, to have sex with both male and female gender. Which is what BW would be doing if they made the current companions romance-able by both genders.

 

And I disagree fully. I think who someone wants to have sex with greatly impacts their personality. I'm probably going to get reamed for this, but do you think flamboyant gay men would be that flamboyant if they weren't gay? Because I've met very very few flamboyant straight men in my life. That's a really obvious one. Another one would be that I'm attracted to chivalrous men who are willing to take care of me. That in turn makes me more accepting to society's gender roles and being a stay at home wife.

 

And if a character isn't bisexual, it certainly is insulting to just turn 'em around on a dime. Frankly, it's insulting to the sexuality considered "bisexual" too. That's not how it works in real life. If you're going to turn someone bisexual, or gay, or bring it out in them. then that should be part of the story as well. It shouldn't just be a cut and paste of the hetero storyline.

 

True, but a person's sexuality can change. While some of the companions may clearly be bisexual (I think Kaliyo is confirmed, not sure about others), other companions may simply not have seen fit to mention that they swing both ways. Still others might consider themselves heterosexual but find themselves developing feelings toward the PC, regardless of the PC's gender. Kira, for example, seems infatuated with the JK no matter what.

 

I agree with you. Kira is in love with you no matter what gender. And Kaliyo has many indicators that she'll sleep with anyone and erryone. But like it's been said before, it's just too silly to think of every romance-able option in-game currently playing both sides of their field. Some companions already have it established with no follow through, but certainly not all of them

 

Time to dredge up the relevant dev quote again! Here's Daniel Erickson at the Guild Summit in March:

 

So it seems to be that they don't want to "just make everyone bi" (his mention of swapping the dialogue). Whether that means that not all current LIs will be made available, or if they all will but it will be done very carefully, we don't know yet, but it seems like they want to make SGRs work in a meaningful, sensible way. Not by "half-***ing" it.

 

Thank you for that. I hadn't read that.

[stuffystuffs]

From my point of view i don't look at the game as a whole in regards to what others are doing with their companions because when you look at it from that perspective the fact that every JK has a Kira makes it rather obsurd, so the point about the wrongness of making all the romancable companions bi to me is equally pointless.

 

Yeah, and the fact that you can customize your own companion's looks so another person's Kira can look totally different from yours.

 

Not sure why that's fine but sexuality is the hangup for some.

 

Also, I've noticed the framework appears to be in place already, but the rest of it hasn't been completely developed yet. There is a video on youtube where a female SW goes to buy Vette's sisters freedom, and the sister says "No women, no couples." The SW gets the option to say "Hold on. I want to explore this 'no women' thing. I mean, we ARE all open-minded people here."

 

This got me thinking: I am hoping they'll add in new companion quest content (for all companions) and include the SGRA's as a part of that (so lvl 50s can still do one if desired) instead of tweaking the existing dialog to include them. That way, no matter how far along you are with the toon, you can start the SGRA.

 

So...yeah, even though my agent just finished all her conversations with Kaliyo yesterday, she won't miss out b/c the new romance will be part of a new set of companion dialog. I just really hope they do that instead of simply changing around the old dialog. They'd also add on new convos for the OGRA too, ofc, b/c they all need more.

 

But I think your point about the framework shows that it was probably intended but cut.

Edited May 23, 2012 by stuffystuffs

[Rayla_Felana]

Honestly I am sick to death of getting jumped on and torn apart whenever I mention SGRA content in a general discussion thread, apparently it isn't 'a priority' and we should just never bother to mention it ever again.

 

Sick of these forums.

[tolaf]

I wonder if they will include how each faction feels about SG relationships, because it seems like it would be punishable by death within the Stih Empire.

[Lurkz]

I wonder if they will include how each faction feels about SG relationships, because it seems like it would be punishable by death within the Stih Empire.

 

Not really sure why it would be. Sure, they're big on procreation and such but it's not like they don't have the medical capabilities to get around that.

[tolaf]

Not really sure why it would be. Sure, they're big on procreation and such but it's not like they don't have the medical capabilities to get around that.

 

Just the racism emitting from the Empire makes me feel like most imperial citiznes would be homophobic.

[Lurkz]

Just the racism emitting from the Empire makes me feel like most imperial citiznes would be homophobic.

 

Definitely possible. Of course the Empire's so weird about stuff sometimes I could totally see them hating aliens but being just fine with two guys or two girls sleeping with each other.

[tolaf]

Definitely possible. Of course the Empire's so weird about stuff sometimes I could totally see them hating aliens but being just fine with two guys or two girls sleeping with each other.

 

Well they are British!

[Rayla_Felana]

I wonder if they will include how each faction feels about SG relationships, because it seems like it would be punishable by death within the Stih Empire.

 

They have never ever made any suggestions towards that, they are extremely xenophobic, but homophobic? no suggestion or hint has ever been made and even further, a Female Sith Warrior can allude to being at least Bisexual in the Vette questline.

 

And I hear the Fem IA can outright flirt with Kaliyo.

[tolaf]

They have never ever made any suggestions towards that, they are extremely xenophobic, but homophobic? no suggestion or hint has ever been made and even further, a Female Sith Warrior can allude to being at least Bisexual in the Vette questline.

 

And I hear the Fem IA can outright flirt with Kaliyo.

Yes but those are girls, and we all know what Bioware thinks about girls.

[Rayla_Felana]

Well they are British!

 

Honestly none of that ever made any sense.

 

In the Original Trilogy the place they shot the scenes for the Imperials just happened to be England and then Lucas for some reason seemed to decide to make it a recurring theme in the Galactic Empire to give it more difference.

 

But further along, what sense does it make for an entirely different Empire from 3650 years before hand with entirely different roots to have that accent to?

[Rayla_Felana]

Yes but those are girls, and we all know what Bioware thinks about girls.

 

No, we don't.

[tolaf]

Honestly none of that ever made any sense.

 

In the Original Trilogy the place they shot the scenes for the Imperials just happened to be England and then Lucas for some reason seemed to decide to make it a recurring theme in the Galactic Empire to give it more difference.

 

But further along, what sense does it make for an entirely different Empire from 3650 years before hand with entirely different roots to have that accent to?

 

Evil=British.

You see every imperial is born sounding Amurrikan, and as they become evil they grow english accents.

Because you remember how evil those Brit's were to good'Ol Amurrika.

But i like the accent, it sounds so sexy.

[JediElf]

BioWare has said they want to do SGRs right, so I think it's very safe to say that they'll be handling them with the respect for character and personality they always have. It's a good bet that some of the SGR romances will feature a companion first realizing that they have feelings for someone of the same gender. And I trust BW to do that right.

 

Same here.

 

I recon we'll have longer to wait, but it'll be worth it.

[Rayla_Felana]

Evil=British.

You see every imperial is born sounding Amurrikan, and as they become evil they grow english accents.

Because you remember how evil those Brit's were to good'Ol Amurrika.

But i like the accent, it sounds so sexy.

 

Again that makes no sense, one difference between Americans and Brits, they have different accents, that's it.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[tolaf]

Again that makes no sense, one difference between Americans and British people, they have different accents, that's it.

The accents make them sound more formal, but it doesn'tmake sense otherwise

Why these imperials have the accent as well as the original trilogy ones, i'm not sure. i can only assume that ex-Imperial citizens remained on former imperial controlled planets after the war, so the accent was preserved.

But i have no idea where the accent would have originally come from, i guess a hybrid of sith language and english?

Edited May 23, 2012 by tolaf

[WushuDragon_]

Honestly I am sick to death of getting jumped on and torn apart whenever I mention SGRA content in a general discussion thread, apparently it isn't 'a priority' and we should just never bother to mention it ever again.

 

Sick of these forums.

 

Then log off and uninstall is all I can recommend. Receiving "flak" from any opinion is the nature of controversial subjects.

[Rayla_Felana]

Then log off and uninstall is all I can recommend. Receiving "flak" from any opinion is the nature of controversial subjects.

 

Debate=!Never allowed to express an opinion.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[JediElf]

This got me thinking: I am hoping they'll add in new companion quest content (for all companions) and include the SGRA's as a part of that (so lvl 50s can still do one if desired) instead of tweaking the existing dialog to include them. That way, no matter how far along you are with the toon, you can start the SGRA.

 

So...yeah, even though my agent just finished all her conversations with Kaliyo yesterday, she won't miss out b/c the new romance will be part of a new set of companion dialog. I just really hope they do that instead of simply changing around the old dialog. They'd also add on new convos for the OGRA too, ofc, b/c they all need more.

 

But I think your point about the framework shows that it was probably intended but cut.

 

Oh i'd love it if I had a whole new set of conversations, and love quests, to complete when the SGRA finally arrive.

 

If I have to re-roll all my characters, then I will...but if I don't have to then that would be all the better.

 

Oh if only we could get a little sneak peek, that would be awesome.

Edited May 24, 2012 by JediElf

[Crezelle]

Oh i'd love it if I had a whole new set of conversations, and love quests, to complete when the SGRA finally arrive.

 

If I have to re-roll all my characters, then I will...but if I don't have to then that would be all the better.

 

Oh if only we could get a little sneak peek, that would be awesome.

 

ohh a sneak peek would be epic

[Eanelinea]

The only thing I'm hoping is if we don't want a same sex relationship with current or future companions, that all we have to do is be sure not to flirt with them but still be able to finish their quest line. I just don't want a companion to get hurt and pissed at me because my characters don't feel the same way about them as they do about me.

 

Or to wind up in a love triangle, especially if your character is already married.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Eanelinea

[Oremund]

It seems that there may be an easy way to allow for anyone to choose their available companions for romance, opposite OR same sex. Why not make it so that you after a certain level of affection with your companion, you have to deliberately present some more-than-one number of courtship gifts (which are rejected before that point and by all non-romanceable characters) to whoever you want to romance and then after that have the character ASK whether you are trying to start a relationship and you can say YES or NO or NO WAY and proceed accordingly. Thus all the romanceable characters could be bisexual in principle, but would have to have any type of romance, gay or straight, initiated at the players will. Seems like nobody could complain that any type of sexuality was "forced" on them that way, and if you made it so that you deliberately had to do "courting gifts", perhaps as a side bar line initiated that you had to move forward to a certain point to "score". Companions would then only flirt or respond romantically at different levels depending on this romance bar. Just a thought from one gay man waiting for the change.

[Crezelle]

The only thing I'm hoping is if we don't want a same sex relationship with current or future companions, that all we have to do is be sure not to flirt with them but still be able to finish their quest line. I just don't want a companion to get hurt and pissed at me because my characters don't feel the same way about them as they do about me.

 

Or to wind up in a love triangle, especially if your character is already married.

 

iuno..i know a LOT of male players with femwars will want to dump quinn for jaesa. me i'd leave corso for akavi any day