Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[Blaac]

You exit combat in PvP 8 seconds after the last hostile action. DOTs do not refresh this status.

 

You're playing very unusual games of Huttball if you never drop out of combat. Especially given that the ball resets to the center after someone scores, moving the action quickly.

 

Sorry but this is completely wrong.

 

It takes MUCH longer than 8 seconds. I actually counted on my sniper yesterday and it took 18 seconds from the time I killed someone to drop combat.

 

I believe the game is counting a few things extra to keep you in combat. As far as I can tell 2 things seem to be keeping players in combat that shouldn't be.

• If any member of your group continues attacking someone you have done damage to within your personal range.
  
• If you have healed or have an active heal on any group member who continues attacking someone within your personal range.
  

 

If this is true, than it explains the ludicrous times it is taking to get out of combat. And if fixed than this medpac idea shouldn't affect pvp *too* much... except for the GOOD players who can consistantly go an entire WZ without dying. They will be affected the most.

[mcmonk]

pve medpacks once per fight.. pvp only medpacks the same.. problem solved. WZ can chug and raiders can ask for a heal.. i honestly don't see the problem with that considering i don't even carry medpacks when i'm on my assassin cuz the healers i hang with don't let me die unless i'm doing something i shouldn't be doing.

[Masturomenos]

You have a rather fatal flaw in your reasoning. You're painting it as if them having an easier time tuning an encounter somehow means they take the rest of the time off.

 

"This would have normally taken us a week, we did it in 2 days! Take the rest of the week off, see you all next Monday!"

 

If they have to spend less time tuning each encounter it means that they have MORE time to work on new content. The faster they can get content out, the BETTER for the players.

 

Ok bud what game u playing? They took half a decade nd 300 million to make busted ev and kp. Where do u think they r doing it to get us more content. 1.2 is what they owed us in decembr not some extra stuff we get cause we are owed it. They are doing it against u aswell ur fun will suffer. U keep thinking they need to take medpacks out so we can be more engaged. By doing it prves the opposite. I hope u like every next teir t hve the same fight just with more hp on the boss and more damage he puts out and without any mechanics that show creativity. Nme one thing bioware has touched that they did right? I can name everything the have done as the first 90% being good then the last 10% thy get their hands on ruined and what was good bing forgotten cause of it. Its not even easter and bioware has managed to make the worst ending in single player shooter history and alienate an entire playerbase with swtor patch 1.2.

[DaRoamer]

Ok bud what game u playing? They took half a decade nd 300 million to make busted ev and kp. Where do u think they r doing it to get us more content. 1.2 is what they owed us in decembr not some extra stuff we get cause we are owed it. They are doing it against u aswell ur fun will suffer. U keep thinking they need to take medpacks out so we can be more engaged. By doing it prves the opposite. I hope u like every next teir t hve the same fight just with more hp on the boss and more damage he puts out and without any mechanics that show creativity. Nme one thing bioware has touched that they did right? I can name everything the have done as the first 90% being good then the last 10% thy get their hands on ruined and what was good bing forgotten cause of it. Its not even easter and bioware has managed to make the worst ending in single player shooter history and alienate an entire playerbase with swtor patch 1.2.

 

You didn't address anything I said at all. All you are doing is ranting.

[Wayshuba]

The reasons stated for needing a change make sense, the change itself doesn't.

 

First, having med-packs work one way pre-50 and another at 50 is a no-no. Game mechanics should not be changing based on level. I won't even go in to the myriad of reasons that having two different mechanics is bad from a game design perspective.

 

Second, there are so-so many ways this could be done without the drastic change proposed. Lower amount of healing on packs or raise cooldown times. Even better, if the intent is to make hard and nightmare modes truly that way, then tie the one use per boss fight to those modes, rather than all modes.

 

As an aside, it seems BW is trying to adjust WAY to much at once with the 1.2 patch. I'd suggest these changes be made more incrementally to see the effect of changes before adding another one. With so many changes at once, balance will still be off and then more massive changes will undertake. Part of the reason balance never seems to be achieved in MMOs with classes is all these massive changes made at once, rather than incremental and measured ones to finally bring balance.

[Blaac]

If they have to spend less time tuning each encounter it means that they have MORE time to work on new content. The faster they can get content out, the BETTER for the players.

 

This is only true when the encounters are not flawed. As everyone saw at release with the large count of bugged encounters this will most likely not be the case.

 

There is something to be said about taking the time to do it right the first time. They lose more by adding a ton of shoddy content and having to waste time later fixing it over and over.

[Inayat]

You exit combat in PvP 8 seconds after the last hostile action. DOTs do not refresh this status.

 

You're playing very unusual games of Huttball if you never drop out of combat. Especially given that the ball resets to the center after someone scores, moving the action quickly.

 

This is utter nonsense...

 

You ever played the game yourself?

Getting out of combat after 8 secs...

 

At many occasions this does not happen, even when guarding a turret or door alone.

[Soluss]

I honestly wonder whether people simply do not understand the design benefits of this, or purposely ignore them and procceed to cry about the terrible offence BW is making in forcing them to think and tweak their gameplay.

 

I guess that when people "stalling cc till medpack is up" a strategy, one can see why most can't understand how allowing infinite medpacks limits the designers room to produce variety in fights WITHOUT making chugging medpacks mandatory in the end

 

You cannot stall CC boss fights. For weaker encounters, does it really matter? Thats a pretty poor arguement IMO. You can tune Boss fights around having medpacks just as easily as you can without them. MMOs have been doing it for a long time.

 

They werent mandatory either. It just made it easier on the healers. Healers are probably the most stressed class in game and now they get more stressed.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Soluss

[RavenMuse]

Normaly so far I've tended toward being the voice of reason pointing out that the players are over-reacting.... however in this case even I have to wonder what the heck the dev team have been smoking because this is stupidity incarnate and whatever is claimed is done because some people have QQ'ed so much about re-useable medpacks and 'its not fair'

 

This compleatly screws over many fights in situations where people are trying to solo/underman/underlevel an encounter.... the opposite of overgearing for it, seeing just how much they can make up for with skillful play.... many such encounters last more than one medpacks worth... with kiting/stunning/slowing the boss/champ/elite.

 

You have a 90 second cooldown for a reason! That is ENOUGH. This 'one per fight' is crazy, unwarranted, un-needed and just plain wrong. Hopefully this is one thing that will NOT make it into live.

[ntyzor]

can't see any problems with PvP. PvE ? Different story.

[Urkanan]

pve medpacks once per fight.. pvp only medpacks the same.. problem solved.

 

 

I do agree with you

 

yet, as a PvE'er who gets the short end of the stick 99% of the time pvp prompts a change in my class... I admit I find a sick satisfaction in watching pvp'ers scrood over a PvE-motivated change

 

 

You cannot stall CC boss fights. For weaker encounters, does it really matter? Thats a pretty poor arguement IMO. You can tune Boss fights around having medpacks just as easily as you can without them. MMOs have been doing it for a long time.

 

Yeah, that was my point... people do not get it and complain about stuff that doesn't even make a lot of sense.

 

About your second sentence, I agree, but the limitation sets a better canvas for devs to work on.

 

It really is no matter of laziness on the devs side. If you want to optimize, reducing the number of variables, and when impossible, reducing the variability, is a key point. MAking fights tighter is nothing but an exercise of optimization.

 

WoW did this and there was the same outcry (maybe not this much because of how long the game had been in the market), but it never made fights any easier or harder. Existing encounters were just different to play.

 

In 3 months people will not even remember they used to chug 10-20 medpacks per raid night.

 

Maybe I am just naive, but what GZ explains makes sense to me, and I have to agree that overperforming healers make for less challenging encounters. If healers are the most stressed it probably means that dps and tanks are not stressing themselves enough. Let's be honest... there really is not that much unavoidable damage in current fights. Future responders please distinguish between unavoidable damage and bugged mechanics (orbs with no nameplate, etc.)

Edited March 26, 2012 by Urkanan

[Drewser]

Terrible change. Seems like a Dev response to all the crying about reusable medpacks.

[Quinlynn]

So basically stealth classes can heal twice as much as any other ? :L rip snipers / guns

 

Very good point that the dev team probably did not even think of.

 

More proof that this idea is completely and utterly stupid.

 

Try again BW.

[Quinlynn]

Terrible change. Seems like a Dev response to all the crying about reusable medpacks.

 

It is and only again proves how stupid players are and the devs.

 

Re-usables are not more powerful and are the same as what can be purchased from a medic droid or the GTN.

 

Prototypes, that are also consumable, are actually more powerful than the reusable versions.

 

The only benefit of resusable med packs / stims is that they save you credits.

 

Also, nothing prevent other players from maxing Biochem and making their own resuables.

 

Stupid is what stupid does.

[ninjashadowdark]

Medpacs can now only be used once per fight. When a medpac is used during combat, another cannot be used until after combat has ended.

 

This is a huge mistake.

 

1- There exists no mechanic to determine when a fight over and the next mob begins for your character alone. Considering that there exists a bug where you companion agros mobs on it's own now.... this becomes even more problematic.

 

2- Group mechanics currently can not differentiate if you are out of combat if your party wanders off and attacks something while you yourself are trying to catch a second wind. This is clearly demonstrated by elevators that will not let you use them if you party is in combat, loot boxes that can not be opened and the like.

 

2a- Does anyone NOT see a problem when -1- member of a Operation is -stuck- in combat mode and no one can use a med pack????

 

3-This change was not asked for by the player community.

learn to adapt ... i dont see how this effects me ..Every one here to learn how to use there med pack when they needed ..

[Stoicraven]

At first I too thought this was a huge mistake. Then however I started playing within my spec Jedi Sentinel Watchmen. From there I started gearing with the correct mods based on the skills I was using i.e. crit hits for heals. Then from there I started using a rotation properly, with interrupts, saber ward etc. Medpacs are not needed 95% of the time. That other 5% is typically due to player error i.e. being to hasty, missing an interrupt, out using my burns, or something as simple as WAITING between combat.

[Quinlynn]

At first I too thought this was a huge mistake. Then however I started playing within my spec Jedi Sentinel Watchmen. From there I started gearing with the correct mods based on the skills I was using i.e. crit hits for heals. Then from there I started using a rotation properly, with interrupts, saber ward etc. Medpacs are not needed 95% of the time. That other 5% is typically due to player error i.e. being to hasty, missing an interrupt, out using my burns, or something as simple as WAITING between combat.

 

Your also wearing heavy or medium armor, not light.

 

Nothing about med packs is OP'd, period.

 

Just because you are so awesome that you don't need one does not mean by default that this is a good change to the game.

[Stoicraven]

Your also wearing heavy or medium armor, not light.

 

Nothing about med packs is OP'd, period.

 

Just because you are so awesome that you don't need one does not mean by default that this is a good change to the game.

 

So......you don't know what type of armor a Sentinel can wear.......seems very odd to me. Sentinel can ONLY wear medium armor and I don't have that snazzy force armor sages have. Saber Ward is comparable to the Shadow tank damage mitigation skill but not the same. It's not a matter of being awesome, it's simply a matter of learning to play within the class properly.

 

As others have pointed out reuseable medpacs are simply a credit save nothing more. They aren't on par with prototype medpacs at all. The asinine assumption that the medpac hit has something to do with reuseables is ridiculous.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Stoicraven

[Velnora]

So......you don't know what type of armor a Sentinel can wear.......seems very odd to me. Sentinel can ONLY wear medium armor and I don't have that snazzy force armor sages have. Saber Ward is comparable to the Shadow tank damage mitigation skill but not the same. It's not a matter of being awesome, it's simply a matter of learning to play within the class properly.

 

As others have pointed out reuseable medpacs are simply a credit save nothing more. They aren't on par with prototype medpacs at all. The asinine assumption that the medpac hit has something to do with reuseables is ridiculous.

 

snazzy force armor? Usually that stuff can be 1 or 2-hitted off of us if we do same-level pve. same with pvp. It's great if you don't rely on medpacs much, but this is certainly a blow for others.

 

I would like to point out that this is especially hard for those with characters on low population servers where it's darn near impossible to find groups for pve content in a LOT of cases.

[Raeln]

At first I too thought this was a huge mistake. Then however I started playing within my spec Jedi Sentinel Watchmen. From there I started gearing with the correct mods based on the skills I was using i.e. crit hits for heals. Then from there I started using a rotation properly, with interrupts, saber ward etc. Medpacs are not needed 95% of the time. That other 5% is typically due to player error i.e. being to hasty, missing an interrupt, out using my burns, or something as simple as WAITING between combat.

 

Non end-game content is a different beast from end-game content. That said, limiting medpacks to one per combat cycle is not going to kill the game but in my opinion, if Bioware thinks they need to go so far as to actually implement the limitation, then they are probably designing content to the difficulty level that will exclude too large a portion of their playerbase for their "raid" content to actually be profitable for them.

 

Just take a look at how active WoW's hardmode raids are these days. LFR is where it's at. Hardmodes are virtually untouched, compared to the total number of player accounts.

[Raeln]

So......you don't know what type of armor a Sentinel can wear.......seems very odd to me. Sentinel can ONLY wear medium armor and I don't have that snazzy force armor sages have. Saber Ward is comparable to the Shadow tank damage mitigation skill but not the same. It's not a matter of being awesome, it's simply a matter of learning to play within the class properly.

 

As others have pointed out reuseable medpacs are simply a credit save nothing more. They aren't on par with prototype medpacs at all. The asinine assumption that the medpac hit has something to do with reuseables is ridiculous.

 

You would have a point if the medpack change only applies to the reusable versions - yet it doesn't. It applies to all medpacks and it has very little impact on solo gameplay - except for the rare cases of extreme soloing.

[Moshpet]

learn to adapt ... i dont see how this effects me ..Every one here to learn how to use there med pack when they needed ..

 

I've been adapting since 1964, since I am still alive, I must be doing it right. /slap-u-with-an-old-fish.

 

 

 

 

The medpack issue, is that:

 

1- There are insufficient self heals in over half of the games classes, so that taking away the abilitiy to use the medpack one than one time a fight, is going to damage the survivability of many classes. Not to mention eat into the limited player funds we get currently.

 

2- There are instances of combat where there are no breaks in combat and that combat can

run -much- longer than the cool downs. Yes devs there are times you will be stuck, in combat, in pvp and pve well past the medpack cool-down timers, and have need to use them. (I hate pvp and even I know this to be true.)

 

3- The game mechanics are often flawed, to the point you are -stuck- in combat for no evident reason.

 

4- The group mechanics can not tell the difference if only one person is in combat or is not.

 

5-PVE is not PVP, and vise~versa.

 

6- Respawns happen, and it is possible in some maps to agro everything on the next floor up.

 

7- Breaking something that works, to fix something else, never turns out good.

 

8- There is always a new game looming on the horizon. If there is poor customer satisfaction in how a game is progression; the game with poor customer satisfaction, will lose customers to the 'next big thing.'

 

M.

[Urkanan]

[...]then they are probably designing content to the difficulty level that will exclude too large a portion of their playerbase for their "raid" content to actually be profitable for them.

 

Just take a look at how active WoW's hardmode raids are these days. LFR is where it's at. Hardmodes are virtually untouched, compared to the total number of player accounts.

 

As it has always been and should be. Is it a slip or are you purposefully equalling HardMode with "raiding content"?

 

I really do not know why there is a sudden feeling that everyone should be raiding if they want to, and if they can't then the difficulty needs to be brought down.

 

 

I am not a hardcore raider myself, so I know NmM is realisticly out of my reach. What I will never understand is why people who, like me, lack the skill or the time or the commitment, or several of them, demand that the endgame should be tuned to their level, leaving those more skilled, more commited, and with less real life things to take care of without a challenge in the game.

 

Seriously, what is people's motivation in this? The content is the same at NmM than you see in Story Mode, so it is not about content. Is it "purplez" then?

 

 

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I do understand your point, but this game design hardly qualifies as casual content, and pretending that max difficulty needs to be brought down to fit "the mayority of the player base", when there is extremely easy SAME content available for them makes little sense to me.

 

Catering NmM for the casual not only renders SM pointless, it also reduces your player base. The mayority that was already being catered for will stay and boost their epeen, and the hardcore will leave because the game has no challenge to offer to them.

 

People who call themselves "casual" need to understand that there is a downside to it: hardcore players will always look cooler, be stronger, play better and win more often than you. Casually live with it.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Urkanan

[Blattan]

That other 5% is typically due to player error i.e. being to hasty, missing an interrupt, out using my burns, or something as simple as WAITING between combat.

 

Oh? Really?

 

I could never have to do with a strong enemy "teleporting" into a combat that already had a strong patroller join the fight.

It could never have to do with a characters health bar being static, and then have the past 15-20 seconds worth of damage finally show up and wipe out all of the characters remaining health in one go.

It could never have to do with buggy combat that every so often attacks seems to do quadruple damage (both for players and mobs).

 

It has to be player error. No chance it could be the game at all, could there?

[Ahebish]

3.you dont need users feedback to make changes

 

and 1-2 try it before you complain, it might sound like its a bad change but TRY it before posting negative feedback. Lowering the reuse on pvp medpacks is a nice change, and the game does have systems inplace to track when your out of combat, if your group seems to be chain pulling try saying stop for 5 seconds its not like its a big deal really.

 

This is where L2P mechanic is applicable

 

Reuse is pointless if you can only use it 1 time per combat cycle.

 

Why even change the CD on it?