Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[Elyssandra]

if a raid isn't balanced around them? yes. medpacks are for those oh crap moments where you might have made a mistake, if you need more than 1 per fight then either your healers fail, or you do...

 

How did you decide that everyone in a raid is allowed one and only one "oh crap" moment per fight (or else they themselves, or their healers fail)?

 

Is this an arbitrary figure you just came up with?

 

My question to you is, why only one?

Why not none (medpacs cannot be used in combat)?

Or two (medpacs can only be used twice per fight)?

Or three (medpacs can only be used three times per fight)?

 

How did you come up with "this is a change I support because everyone should only have one "oh crap" moment per fight otherwise I deem them "fail""?

 

And how about adrenals or relics? What's your position on those?

[Solonius]

NiM Rancor and NiM Soa just became a lot harder to a lot of guilds out there.

 

Especially NiM Rancor.

[Trimag]

If you need harder content, buff the enemies. Don't nerf the players. It only sows discontent.

 

Exactly

[Edhelliel]

Well while lvl as a Biochemist I never used my Heroic skill.. Cause, a prototype medpack is twice as good. Lets review:

 

Health 10k

Medpack: 3700-4000 plus 1500 over 15s. Thats... half of my health. So stop trolling and crying

[ActosMagus]

I highly doubt it. Been playing enough mmo's to figure out unless the do both at the same time it ain't going to happen. Did they mention this officially? or is this another fanboi guess?

 

New content (such as Operation: Explosive Conflict and Flashpoint: The Lost Island) is significantly tighter balanced already, with this limitation in mind.

 

Unfortunately, no mention of existing content. Although, existing content would automatically become easier with access to new levels of gear.

[kuthroat]

Let me get this straight?

 

I can use my medpack once per fight and there is no cooldown mechanic????? How is this not a huge buff to medpack use in pvp? At least on a stealth class, I am in and out of fights pretty much after every encounter, or at least every death. I just have to wait 8 seconds after a fight??? This is a huge buff...sweet.

Edited March 22, 2012 by kuthroat

[MrHotter]

I highly doubt it. Been playing enough mmo's to figure out unless the do both at the same time it ain't going to happen. Did they mention this officially? or is this another fanboi guess?

 

No, it's just reading comprehension at work.

 

It got burried on page 3.

 

From George Z.

Making the medpacs variable more controllable for endgame content is a necessary precondition for the creation of tighter, more closely balanced fights.

 

We don't want medpacs to be as important as class abilities, and we feel they should not become part of rotations. On longer boss fights, this is a trend we've seen happening, and we've counteracted this. Obviously, where needed, boss mechanics would be adjusted to account for this, but we don't really anticipate much impact for that on existing content.

 

New content (such as Operation: Explosive Conflict and Flashpoint: The Lost Island) is significantly tighter balanced already, with this limitation in mind.

 

A positive side effect is that the cost of running endgame content is somewhat reduced by this change.

 

We are still in discussions to restore pre-level 50 medpacs to their previous condition to avoid negatively affecting the PvE game during the leveling process for people that heavily rely on medpacs.

Edited March 22, 2012 by MrHotter

[Padshar]

Why not just delete biochem all together now.. seriously.. nerf after nerf after nerf.. Give us some craftable Rakata Implants if your going to make everything else we craft pointless.

 

 

seriously only 1 med pack per fight is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Now people will just stop using them because they will just think "now's not the time, i may need it more later in the fight"

 

 

for fights like SOA where some damage is entirely out of the players control and caused by the environment this is a stupid change...

 

the platform falls on soa are one example.. say the healers are already down on long fall platform and a dps class with out heals is up above them with out enough life to survive the fall. so they have to use the med pack.

 

Now that med pack is not available, so when Soa tosses you up in the air and slams you against the pillars (another damage you have 100% no control over and no way to stop that's random) you now have no medpack avaliable to use.

 

or what about when you pop a lightening ball (that sometimes double/tripple ticks) and drop below 50% health and a healers mind trapped at the same time.. you now have no med pack and if you get tossed into the air you are coming back dead.

 

when you take fights like this where so much is completly out of the players hands and left to the random (RNG) gods and then remove our way of trying to counter balance some of randomness you dont make much sense.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[iceperson]

How did you decide that everyone in a raid is allowed one and only one "oh crap" moment per fight (or else they themselves, or their healers fail)?

 

i didn't, the devs did, and they explained on page 3 why.

[Lugosi]

It's different than any other cooldown in that it costs money and is a time sink to create/maintain. Most player don't like mandatory time/money sinks.

 

It has been stated many times by many different posters here, but I'll say it again: THE ENCOUNTERS WILL BE TUNED BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOU GET ONE MEDPACK PER ENCOUNTER.

 

Those that think this will make it harder on them and are ragequiting are not getting all the facts.

 

Fine throw the class cooldowns out the window because they don't categorically fit, whatever. But...rellics, stims, adrenals, etc are all mandatory time and money sinks. So my question remains the same, how are they any different than medpacs?

 

As far as tuning the encounter based off the use of medpacs. Are you serious? You believe that? lol.

 

Yeah, I'm not ragequitting, I won't take it that far.

 

edit: btw, if you don't like mandatory time and money sinks, you are playing the wrong game genre.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Lugosi

[Emperor_Troll]

Medpacs can now only be used once per fight. When a medpac is used during combat, another cannot be used until after combat has ended.

 

This is a huge mistake.

 

1- There exists no mechanic to determine when a fight over and the next mob begins for your character alone. Considering that there exists a bug where you companion agros mobs on it's own now.... this becomes even more problematic.

 

2- Group mechanics currently can not differentiate if you are out of combat if your party wanders off and attacks something while you yourself are trying to catch a second wind. This is clearly demonstrated by elevators that will not let you use them if you party is in combat, loot boxes that can not be opened and the like.

 

2a- Does anyone NOT see a problem when -1- member of a Operation is -stuck- in combat mode and no one can use a med pack????

 

3-This change was not asked for by the player community.

 

bioware promised us "heroic" and "just plain exciting" combat, so this is a step closer in that direction.

 

also, par for the course and another necessary rebalance to provide players with a richer combat experience.

[goldhtown]

First the nerfs to Sorcs, now this,...man...healers must be freaking out now, lol.

[VladMorbius]

We are still in discussions to restore pre-level 50 medpacs to their previous condition to avoid negatively affecting the PvE game during the leveling process for people that heavily rely on medpacs.

 

Like this shouldn't have been your first thought before putting it out there.

[AmorphousCro]

It probably would have been better to implement the change in NMOps only. That way the hardcores get what they want, and the middle isn't effected by the change.

 

I play with people i like playing with, some great, some decent, some just adequate. The point is, they're people i like playing with, and i'd hate to see them halted completely because the content is just too difficult for them as a group. Weak links will break the chain. Minor changes designed around PvP imbalances effect PvE, and then further changes double dip against PvE for the not so elite players. The majority wont learn to play better, they'll just quit.

 

It's about having fun. Hardcore is the direction WoW tried to take in Cata, and it netted them one million unsubs very quickly. I think SWTOR would be better off catering to 8 million carebears than to 450k hardcores. As long as hard content is a real challenge for amazing players, everyone wins, including BioWare.

[Blotter]

Soooo... medpacs are a crutch in a raid?

 

What else in your esteemed opinion is a crutch? Gear?

 

Oh, but don't worry...despite calling medpacks a "crutch," which is patently absurd, he'll be the first one crying for combat logs and a dps meter.

[Blotter]

It's different than any other cooldown in that it costs money and is a time sink to create/maintain. Most player don't like mandatory time/money sinks.

 

It has been stated many times by many different posters here, but I'll say it again: THE ENCOUNTERS WILL BE TUNED BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOU GET ONE MEDPACK PER ENCOUNTER.

 

Those that think this will make it harder on them and are ragequiting are not getting all the facts.

 

You know who loves mandatory money sinks? CRAFTERS WHOSE ITEMS ARE MANDATORY MONEY SINKS.

 

EVERY other crafting profession is getting a huge buff to the marketability of their products in 1.2 except Biochem. And now, I find out, not only is Biochem getting NOTHING to buff our participation in the in-game economy, BW is actually implementing an enormous NERF TO MEDPACK DEMAND that will significantly reduce the ability to make and sell medpacks for money. That's toatl crap any way you slice it. The fights can be tuned to atke multiple medpacks into account and still be just fine. Seriously. It's freekin 3rd grade math to factor them in based on th eenrage timer and the cooldowns.

[MrHotter]

Fine throw the class cooldowns out the window because they don't categorically fit, whatever. But...rellics, stims, adrenals, etc are all mandatory time and money sinks. So my question remains the same, how are they any different than medpacs?

 

As far as tuning the encounter based off the use of medpacs. Are you serious? You believe that? lol.

 

Yeah, I'm not ragequitting, I won't take it that far.

 

edit: btw, if you don't like mandatory time and money sinks, you are playing the wrong game genre.

 

Did you play UO? That was the game that showed the need for a longer cooldown on potions. People would sit with a bag of healing potions open and just right click as often as needed to stay 100% health. If you did not have your own bag of potions you were never going to compete with those guys.

 

Not every person wants to play like that. This change is good for me and all the players who have a similar idea of what reasonable preperation is. If you enjoy grinding so much you can grind for the others who still want to spend zero time crafting.

 

This is also another step to making it so everyone is not a biotech so they can use the reusables.

[Lugosi]

Oh, but don't worry...despite calling medpacks a "crutch," which is patently absurd, he'll be the first one crying for combat logs and a dps meter.

 

Don't forget threat meters.

[miglor]

All this nerfing and hate towards healers/biochem/whatever

 

D3 can't come soon enough

[iceperson]

WoW made this change 3-4 years ago. Made sense then, makes sense now.

 

Pro-tip: stop standing in the fire and you won't need so many pots...

[Pangscar]

WoW made this change 3-4 years ago. Made sense then, makes sense now.

 

Pro-tip: stop standing in the fire and you won't need so many pots...

 

/thread

 

Only mistake BioWare made is not having it this way from the start.

[Blotter]

bioware promised us "heroic" and "just plain exciting" combat, so this is a step closer in that direction.

 

also, par for the course and another necessary rebalance to provide players with a richer combat experience.

 

THose are what are called conclusory statements. They are not arguments, nor do they come with any supporting analysis whatsoever.

 

One medpack per fight is not par for the course. WoW apparently instituted that change after I quit that nonsense, but most games just leave you to your own devices with medpacks based on their cd.

 

Richer combat experience? How? "Richer combat experience" because they've nerfed healers to heck and forced you to be more reliant on them at the same time? How is that "richer"? I could swear that's the kind of meaningless talking opint blather you'd hear from a politician or marketing campaign. REALITY: this is just nerfing to make things more difficult and potentially frustrating....particularly for the nerfed healers, whose fun factor just went WAAAAAAY down.

 

Nerfed healing capacity and resource management + no more medpacks = a lot of peole yelling at healers and a lot of healers having a crappy time of it.

 

Moreover, this is starting to read to me like BW is just giving a big reward to guild who have completed the initial wave of content while it was easier by now making it harder for the rest of the people out there, who are probably more casual, to complete it. Gotta keep the elitist e-peeners happy, eh BW? After all, THEIR $15/month are the only ones that matter, right?

[Blotter]

Don't forget threat meters.

 

Oh yeah haha...because having meters means you iz "hardcore."

[Elyssandra]

i didn't, the devs did, and they explained on page 3 why.

 

No "the devs" decided that a medpac can only be used once per fight.

 

YOU decided that you support this change and that

<snip>... if you need more than 1 per fight then either your healers fail, or you do...

 

So my question to you from above remains unanswered.

 

 

"How did you decide that everyone in a raid is allowed one and only one "oh crap" moment per fight (or else they themselves, or their healers fail)?

 

Is this an arbitrary figure you just came up with?

 

My question to you is, why only one?

Why not none (medpacs cannot be used in combat)?

Or two (medpacs can only be used twice per fight)?

Or three (medpacs can only be used three times per fight)?

 

How did you come up with "this is a change I support because everyone should only have one "oh crap" moment per fight otherwise I deem them "fail""?

 

And how about adrenals or relics? What's your position on those?

 

 

I am NOT asking the devs why they decided this.

I am asking YOU why you decided that this is a good change and that anyone who needs more than one medpac per fight is "fail".

 

.

[SWImara]

/thread

 

Only mistake BioWare made is not having it this way from the start.

This is a good point, lots of the changes people are getting their panties in a knot over are things that should have been this way since the game went live.