1.2 changes to expertise, old pvp gear obsolete

[Wildcat]

I don't understand why they wouldn't make the new pvp gear with like 25 Expertise on each piece.

 

This way, people who have Cent and Champ gear will have more expertise, and the fresh 50's would have some expertise. It makes no sense, but then again, most of this company's actions have not made any sense..

 

I am mind boggled here...

 

They are really showing inexperience. Bioware post launch has been like watching amateur hour. Seriously, they are showing SOE like incompetence vis a vie SWG...

[Lithium-]

For madness spec assassins all the pvp gear is garbage so we are forced to remod the BM gear to fit our needs.

 

We don't need alacracity but need all the surge, crit and power mods that come in other sets. I guess I will just tell my guild to hold off on modding BM to see if they will adjust it.

[scootle]

Let's face it. PvP equip is going to be very easy to get, for EVERYONE. Including the top equip.

 

This means this game is going towards a non-equip driven PvP. How is that bad? I like the Guild Wars approach. Give everyone the same tools and let them melt each other with skills, tactics, teamwork, and a bit of builds and minmaxing. That is PvP.

 

Itemization over Players in PvP? Bad thing.

 

So while it hurts for a moment to know that all the stuff I earned so hardly over the past three months is going to be pretty useless as in about 30 days (top) everyone will be wearing full WAr Hero gear, I think this is good for real PvPers and bad only for achievers with a PvE mindset. They can still play the "epic loot" game against AI. But PvP? Levele the field please and let Players, not items, rule the field.

 

After thinking about this a bit, I agree with the above. The L50 gear-gap is what ruins PvP for a lot of people... so hopefully this new system will come as close as they can to eliminating it while still giving the epeeners some semblance of "progression" with their PvP.

 

Maybe this is why I love the L10-49 bracket so much... it's not gear that wins the day...

[ChronicZA]

Well i have been chasing valor lvl 60 and im almost there, this news is terrible and i feel like i have wasted my time, I cancelled my sub and i definately wont be renewing it. BW is making the same stupid mistakes WOW did by voiding peoples time and efforts, you make the bed bioware u can sleep in it i aint gonna!

[Boarg]

For madness spec assassins all the pvp gear is garbage so we are forced to remod the BM gear to fit our needs.

 

We don't need alacracity but need all the surge, crit and power mods that come in other sets. I guess I will just tell my guild to hold off on modding BM to see if they will adjust it.

 

There is zero alacrity on any standard Assassin items. Anything with alacrity is Sorcerer gear.

[Deridia]

This is a quote from the PTS forum regarding what happens to champion gear in 1.2. It was confirmed by people on the PTS that champion gear got no stat changes in 1.2 and this dev post further adds to that. It seems that this was intentional on Bioware's part and not simply a bug.

 

Now I'm going to address what David Hunt said and why this screws over probably 90% of the pvp community unfairly. The first is that they try not to change gear stats when possible. This makes total sense it wouldn't be fair to change stats from build to build and screw players over, however by not changing stats in 1.2 they are in fact changing the gear as it goes from great to completely worthless.

 

The current champion gear gets +46 expertise per piece. Champion gear was highly competitive with Battlemaster gear stats wise and earning champ gear was an accomplishment in itself. Now in 1.2 they are keeping the BM tier but removing Centurion and Champion tiers for the new recruit tier.

 

Here is how the new pvp gear system breaks down compared to the old.

 

Old:

 

Centurion-39 expertise per piece

Champion-46 expertise per piece

Battlemaster-50 expertise per piece

 

From this you can see that champion gear was a big step up from centurion and that the gap between champ and BM gear is relatively small, now lets look at the new gear system in 1.2

 

Recruit- I think I saw a pic with 76 per piece

BM-100

War Hero- 110

 

Now the issue is if they don't adjust ANY stat values on champion gear it is going to stay locked at that 46 per piece value. This means it basically become trash because it is going to be half of what it previously was under the new expertise stat distribution.

 

Another major issue is that BM gear will only be converted over if it has all of the original mods in it as in the new BM gear expertise is no longer tied to just the armoring value but spread out across the mod and enhancement slots as well. If you modded your BM gear at all those old mods will stay stat locked in 1.2 and they will NOT get the expertise bonus.

 

Credit to Dulfy for this pic

 

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/battlemasterptrlive.jpg

 

So if you changed the mods on your BM gear that previously had no expertise stats you are potentially losing out on 50 expertise, the +25 on mod and +25 on enhance under the new system. This effectively halves your expertise rating.

 

So basically if you have any champ gear or any modded BM gear in 1.2 you might as well throw it away because it will be useless unless they alter the old stats to fit the new expertise system.

 

Not only is it bad enough that your gear loses half its effectiveness but this also means you would have to actually PAY to buy the new Blue Recruit gear that is better than your old gear and then get the new BM gear AGAIN by playing warzones.

 

From everything the Devs have said the only way your gear will retain its full functional use in PVP is if you have full BM gear that has not been modded in any way. I imagine the number of players meeting that condition are relatively few. For everyone else their time and money investments up to this point in the game are worthless unless Bioware does something to address this issue and retroactively increases expertise stats on old gear to fit the new formula.

 

I kept my old mods - if I put them back in do you know if it'll auto convert?

[DTW_Ravens]

Ok guys I have read a bunch of the posts but am still fairly confused. Currently I am sitting at 58 valor and have 3 champion pieces the chest legs and offhand saber. I do ok against most players and skill comes into play a lot. I am just confused is the update making champions gear worse!!!! is there even a point in getting it or should I just grind out the 60 valor and wait for update??? Can somebody just clearly explain what the pvp update will do to the gear. Cause I have seen many different arguments. Thanks for listening.

[LefteyeFalconeer]

I am assuming that we can have over 1000 WZ comms after 1.2.

 

Correct. You can now hoard up to 2000 WZ commendations.

 

 

 

 

I kept my old mods - if I put them back in do you know if it'll auto convert?

 

Yes. This is official. Combat Dev Georg Zoeller stated that in a post.

 

 

 

 

Well i have been chasing valor lvl 60 and im almost there, this news is terrible and i feel like i have wasted my time, I cancelled my sub and i definately wont be renewing it. BW is making the same stupid mistakes WOW did by voiding peoples time and efforts, you make the bed bioware u can sleep in it i aint gonna!

 

I disagree. Sure, it feels unfair that people we "worked" to put behind us in the evolutionary food chain are now so easily on par with us, but you didn't waste your time as you had about 3 months of fun in PvP while being at the top of said chain. Unless you play for the constant item dominance over other players, which you can still pursue in PvE, I think it's only fair that they level the field a bit and give everyone a fresh start to prove who is good at PvP from who just had more time to catass his/her way up to best equipment and perform better than their skill only due to more time invested/available.

 

I am sure some here will disagree, but I personally prefer PvP to be about human skills and tactics than the time spent to get better items. Time should only give titles and looks, not power. See Guild Wars or any FPS, or Ultima Online, or DAoC. That's what PvP is.

[LenrocNewDawn]

Champion gear will stay the same but since they are going to buff BM gear, everybody screams "NERF". Champ/cent gear won't be available for buying once 1.2 hits. Instead they are going to introduce blue "Recruit" gear which will have worse stats but better expertise then champion. Best for you is to keep having fun until 1.2 hits and when that happens mix w/e champ gear you have with recruit pieces (which will be available for credits) to min/max your char. Since valor will hold no real value (other then e-peen and unlocking titles) you'll be able to start buying BM pieces for war-zone commendations at a far/far better rate that it's possible now. If you keep your pants on, not like most of these guys here , you'll be in BM gear in a very short time.

 

For everyone that is raging, threatening with unsub or with killing a kitten, guys relax, BM will be easy to get. Min/maxing with champ+recruit gear might be a source of fun and diversity and you are 10 war-zones short of your first BM piece.

 

Pause for a moment and think, for crying out loud!

Edited March 27, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[LefteyeFalconeer]

Yes, the good part is that everyone will reach the max level of PvP equip very quickly. The PvP playing field will be leveled in no time equip wise. So no reason to cry about equipment nerfs. What took 3 months to get before 1.2 will now took a week or so.

 

The bad part is that the PvP players that love to have an equipment edge rather than a skill edge over their opponents are very unhappy about it, since newcomers will have their same equip and stats in no time (hence threatening their equipment-inflated win ratio).

 

While I understand these unghappy players' reasoning, which is tied to their playstyle, I am surprised and quite surprised that Bioware took such a u-turn and decided to go for skill-driven PvP over Euip-driven PvP for their ranked/competitive portion of the game.

Edited March 27, 2012 by LefteyeFalconeer

[ShavedEwok]

On a related sidenote (apologies for the slight OT), does anyone know or have any suggestions about what to do with the truckloads of Centurion commendations I think many (including myself) are sitting on?

 

From the information I've seen so far, they will be completely worthless after 1.2, or am I wrong?

[ataborik]

To OP: this was one of the reason why I unsubscribe :-) (I am still playing:-) But I need a break to see how BW will continue with SWTOR)

 

There is a lot of great things in 1.2 (UI change, legacy etc.)

And for me also lot of things which I really dont expect

 

Instead of making game more skill based they make it gear based, because difference between war hero and recruit is too big. (even between recruit and BM).

 

Playing WZ wont be fun at all if difference is so big. If recruit gear will be similar to current champions gear with increased expertise. I think that it will be fine. I even thing that BM gear should be maximum 4 item level difference but its 6 ...

 

etc...

[Steele_dk]

Definitely a sucky move on the bm gear youve modded not receiving the bonus.

 

I can see your point with champion gear becoming over the top sucky after 1.2 but tbh im used to this from wow seasons with old gear becoming a joke.

And tbh we only get 1 new tier set and no valor requirement. Ppl will get this fast.

 

On the no bonus to modded bm gear, well 1.2 is still a few weeks away and this just gives me something to pvp for until it comes out. Ive got 1 full bm set atm unmodded (force-mystic) and im using the Force-master to mod after my need.

 

But i will for sure warn my fellow guildies about this penalty, many ppl are still just in the midst of getting their first bm set.

[LefteyeFalconeer]

Instead of making game more skill based they make it gear based, because difference between war hero and recruit is too big. (even between recruit and BM).

 

You clearly read the whole gear upgrade wrong. The PvP is becoming MORE skill based and LESS gear based. The difference between Recruit and BM is big but earning a full set of Battlemaster gear now is about 25 times faster than before. I mean it, it's about 25 times faster and easier. So in a few weeks everyone will be Battlemaster, and we'll finally be able to mind the PvP, not the gear grind.

 

Seriously, do your research before posting. Or ask.

[FarizAA]

It is amazing how many people complain just basing of their assumptions.

 

Also, "gear or skill" is a classic "to have or to be" dilemma. If you are "to be" person, you do not mind those changes a little bit. Invest your time in learning, and you will actually enjoy tougher competitions.

 

BTW, I am full BM and I love recent gear progression changes.

[Swaggz]

To OP: this was one of the reason why I unsubscribe :-) (I am still playing:-) But I need a break to see how BW will continue with SWTOR)

 

There is a lot of great things in 1.2 (UI change, legacy etc.)

And for me also lot of things which I really dont expect

 

Instead of making game more skill based they make it gear based, because difference between war hero and recruit is too big. (even between recruit and BM).

 

Playing WZ wont be fun at all if difference is so big. If recruit gear will be similar to current champions gear with increased expertise. I think that it will be fine. I even thing that BM gear should be maximum 4 item level difference but its 6 ...

 

etc...

 

Considering you can go from Recruit to BM gear in a week and a half of casual play, so I really don't see a problem here. Even now I see people do just fine in Full Cent or Full Cent/Champ compared to people in full BM. Guess it just comes down to the person I suppose.

[Lithium-]

There is zero alacrity on any standard Assassin items. Anything with alacrity is Sorcerer gear.

 

If you actually played my spec you would understand what I mean. Look again at the set bonuses given and what skills we actually use.

 

Stalker gear ===> Deception build

 

Survivor gear ===> Tank build

 

Force Master gear => Madness build

[Keypek]

Expertise, and pvp centric stats in general, is an old and tired idea that has ruined pvp in past games. Really can't believe no one in the mmo industry researches past mmo blunders and then tries to avoid them. Heck games like Rift are still trying to dig themselves out of the gear gap hole they dug their pvp into. And pvp gear gap was one of (many) reasons Warhammer's pvp became a joke.

 

So far the relative expertise gap remains small between the new tiers but what happens in three months when the next tier comes out... and then after that... suddenly fresh 50s are just meat shields with no real purpose.

[Trayeth]

We need a response from the devs as to how the translation of the mods/enhancements with 1.2 will work.

 

-Will only untouched BM gear be affected with the changes? (Unlikely, but most disappointing if true)

 

-Will BM gear pieces have their stats changed to what they show in PTR now, regardless of how they have been modded previously (This would suck and open up alot of abuse opportunity, but still better than option 1 I guess)

 

-Will mods/enhancements that were originally taken out of BM gear be recognised as such and have the stats they'd have if they were still slotted in the post-patch BM gear regardless of where they are now? (This is how it should work imo)

 

-Will BM gear be updated although it has previously been modded, but only if the original conditions have been restored before the patch hits, e.g. all the original mods are being put back where they were? (lolweird, but still... tell us!)

 

I personally modded 4 out of 5 pieces of BM gear, and I could care less about spending a few credits on reslotting them after 1.2, I obviously kept all the stuff I took out of them. However, the risk of players like me missing the 1.2v BM gear simply because we tried to optimize our gear, investing time and credits, is something I expect the devs to anticipate and prevent from happening.

 

I think what thay should do is upgrade the battlemaster gear with the new mods and take your existing champion/rakata mods you may already have in there and put them in your inventory. If you dont have room, then they are trashed. At least that's my opinion.

[Kyuuu]

This is a quote from the PTS forum regarding what happens to champion gear in 1.2. It was confirmed by people on the PTS that champion gear got no stat changes in 1.2 and this dev post further adds to that. It seems that this was intentional on Bioware's part and not simply a bug.

 

Now I'm going to address what David Hunt said and why this screws over probably 90% of the pvp community unfairly. The first is that they try not to change gear stats when possible. This makes total sense it wouldn't be fair to change stats from build to build and screw players over, however by not changing stats in 1.2 they are in fact changing the gear as it goes from great to completely worthless.

 

The current champion gear gets +46 expertise per piece. Champion gear was highly competitive with Battlemaster gear stats wise and earning champ gear was an accomplishment in itself. Now in 1.2 they are keeping the BM tier but removing Centurion and Champion tiers for the new recruit tier.

 

Here is how the new pvp gear system breaks down compared to the old.

 

Old:

 

Centurion-39 expertise per piece

Champion-46 expertise per piece

Battlemaster-50 expertise per piece

 

From this you can see that champion gear was a big step up from centurion and that the gap between champ and BM gear is relatively small, now lets look at the new gear system in 1.2

 

Recruit- I think I saw a pic with 76 per piece

BM-100

War Hero- 110

 

Now the issue is if they don't adjust ANY stat values on champion gear it is going to stay locked at that 46 per piece value. This means it basically become trash because it is going to be half of what it previously was under the new expertise stat distribution.

 

Another major issue is that BM gear will only be converted over if it has all of the original mods in it as in the new BM gear expertise is no longer tied to just the armoring value but spread out across the mod and enhancement slots as well. If you modded your BM gear at all those old mods will stay stat locked in 1.2 and they will NOT get the expertise bonus.

 

Credit to Dulfy for this pic

 

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/battlemasterptrlive.jpg

 

So if you changed the mods on your BM gear that previously had no expertise stats you are potentially losing out on 50 expertise, the +25 on mod and +25 on enhance under the new system. This effectively halves your expertise rating.

 

So basically if you have any champ gear or any modded BM gear in 1.2 you might as well throw it away because it will be useless unless they alter the old stats to fit the new expertise system.

 

Not only is it bad enough that your gear loses half its effectiveness but this also means you would have to actually PAY to buy the new Blue Recruit gear that is better than your old gear and then get the new BM gear AGAIN by playing warzones.

 

From everything the Devs have said the only way your gear will retain its full functional use in PVP is if you have full BM gear that has not been modded in any way. I imagine the number of players meeting that condition are relatively few. For everyone else their time and money investments up to this point in the game are worthless unless Bioware does something to address this issue and retroactively increases expertise stats on old gear to fit the new formula.

 

 

really? they are changing the stats of the mods and all that but only if we didnt change the mods in it armor? that bs cause i just got my bm set and made if have the stats and mods I want. And now your tell us they only change there stats for people that didnt change the mods in it?. they should of just lock all the mods on them to begin with.

 

if they gona change the stats on bm retroactively then they should do it for all people including the ones that rip out mods and changed them to there liking, not only will i have bm set this useless now I will have grind all over again just to fix it, something they are messing up....