Can anyone provide a brief history of warhammer?

[Olympic]

In my opinion, one of the reasons Warhammer failed was out of control CC and gear progression. I know many like the gear progression system, but I find it counterproductive to the game, any game.

 

Warhammer had a great idea with RvR, and it really WAS fun, LOTS of fun during different stages of the game. I was hoping SWTOR would go this route, but instead we got war zones...cute little grind areas but totally "the ugly date at the party" of PvP.

[Ozzone]

No offense to all of you but almost all of you got it wrong as to why the game went from very active to very dead in the matter of about a month or two. This problem was around from the beginning and generated the most "whining" of anything in the game - lag.

 

To compensate for the massive lag, Mythic started capping fortresses (i.e. the zone itself). These zones were generally located at the opposite ends of the main zone (most RvR zones were typically rectangular and much longer than wider) and the spawn areas were in the middle on the sides similar in size and shape to ilum). The capping created nightmares for organized alliances to set up a decent defense (many times there weren't enough tanks to establish a "tank wall") because we couldn't zone in but instead got kicked all the way back to the spawn area (a good distance away). So we run back to the zone and get kicked again. By that time it was over. It did absolutely no good to have 20 healers and 3 tanks defending a keep/fortress due to the mechanics of battle.

 

This made the situation only worse when some guilds started blanket recruiting anyone and everyone they could (even level 1's) and would swarm the fortresses/keeps creating massive lag. Too many times the game would literally freeze (or disconnect you) and when the lag finally ended (or you logged back in), your whole defense team was lying dead on the floor and the other side had already capped it and was already heading to the next objective. Rinse and repeat this and you can understand the frustration. I can't even begin to count the number of times I got booted out of the game during large battles.

 

Zergs became the norm. The side with the most won period. It was impossible to defend a capture point or keep/fortress when you're outnumbered 4 or 5 to 1.

 

Mythic could never fix the lag problem directly but instead tried to reduce the number of players (sound familiar *cough ilum cough*). Things got so out of hand that people started quitting en masse.

 

I realize there was a lot of issues with balancing (there was always a FotM class) but that wasn't the real reason the game died like it did.

 

Lastly, the icing on the cake was the 72 hour lockout if the other side finished the city siege objective and was free to go attack the king. The game completely flipped from a PvP/RvR environment to a pure PvE environment. This left the defending side nothing to do RvR-wise for 72 hours. Nothing. On top of that warzones died because the other side was too busy sieging the city/killing the king. PvP basically died and many players just logged off for 72 hours knowing there was nothing to really do.

 

The game was a blast, unfortunately Mythic could never fix these issues and people just got tired of getting 5 fps or less all the time. The sad thing is that we are seeing the same problem with open pvp in SWTOR and they are making the same mistakes they made then. Honestly, I don't think they have the expertise to fix the lag problem and probably never will.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Ozzone

[WrykilX]

Lol the ******* that were in charge of Warhammer Offline left things like, for example, the out of range bug in the game for over 3 months. If you played a melee class, you could literally be bopping your opponent in the love canal and still be out of range.

 

3+ MONTHS!

 

That's how incompetent these guys were!

 

THEY LEFT THIS UNFIXED FOR 3+ MONTHS!

 

And that was just one example.

 

They shat upon the use of a good license that had potential in the mmo market.

 

 

How a company could actually hire someone associated with that failure and not just outright fire them all is just laughable ...

Edited March 21, 2012 by WrykilX

[Scinald]

If you ask any 10 people who played WAR what went wrong, you will probably get 10 different answers. My personal one is they didn't fix bugs fast enough and when they attempted to "balance" things they did them with large scale adjustments instead of frequent, small incremental ones....and they usually made adjustments that weren't asked for by the people playing the classes.

 

As for the future of this game, they are fixing bugs at a pretty decent rate (from what I've seen), BUT they are also making sweeping changes on classes that have not been specifically asked for by the community (I'm looking at you Juggs/Guadian classes).

 

What that portends for this game.....who knows? I loved WAR and played it to death for three years with one of the worst tanks in the game (Swordmaster for those who know) and raged and raged and raged when they broke things for me over and over again. Then I learned to let go.

 

I suggest you just let go now and be willing to walk away sooner than later if you don't like the looks of things. I know I will when the time comes and I'll be happier for it.

[GeoLager]

Warhammer pvp balance cliffs:

 

-People cried too much about melee dps was too overpowered and melee dps received a whole slew of nerfs and was relegated as worthless.

 

-bright wizards/sorcs were overpowered and Mythic nor Bioware every really touched them

 

-Tanks and healers were pretty much unkillable unless by the previously mentioned bright wizards/sorcs

[Olympic]

 

What that portends for this game.....who knows? I loved WAR and played it to death for three years with one of the worst tanks in the game (Swordmaster for those who know) and raged and raged and raged when they broke things for me over and over again. Then I learned to let go.

 

I suggest you just let go now and be willing to walk away sooner than later if you don't like the looks of things. I know I will when the time comes and I'll be happier for it.

 

I played a SM. I don't give a crap what anyone says about it, I loved that class.

 

Oh, and what you said is true.

[MartyrLXXVII]

I played a SM. I don't give a crap what anyone says about it, I loved that class.

 

Oh, and what you said is true.

 

Was a Blackguard, so called mirror. Loved it too until they started making changes that every player in the BG forums hated, and I mean everyone, but the didn't care.

 

Don't remember the specifics now, but remember the player base raging about something with very good arguements and the response was basically, "to bad, we think our way is best and don't care about your feedback". Sounds extreme but that's the feel a lot of us got, and that's literally like the last memory I have of the game.

 

However, I will say something mythic did that bioware is grisly being terrible about is communicating. Devs posted regularly on their boards.

[Slurmez]

so after reading some 1.2 patch notes(and thinking about the choices made so far) I cant help but shake my head and wonder if I'm only playing this game because of the star wars name power...

 

 

Ive read bit and pieces on the forums about how most of these devs came from Warhammer..what happened to that game? did it fail?

 

even reading some of their quotes make me think this is a big troll...does anyone have faith in these developers?

 

Warhammer -

 

Epic adventure aimed for a long trek into the world, gear was not free and had to be amassed over months and months

 

Gear inflation was originally very small

 

Game was launched far too early

 

Epic battles could be found almost anywhere

 

Short sighted decision taken to abandon PvE and "concentrate" on PvP to save money

 

They didnt "concentrate" on PvP at all

 

Carrie Gouskos, queen of all pie eaters took over somehow as lead (her past experience was making the tome of knowledge which was moot given they abandoned PvE

 

Carrie introduced monsterplay and a raft of other moronic measures that erradicated the population of Warhammer Online to nothingness

 

Ginormagantuan (yes thats the only word that fits) gear inflation was introduced along with hidden levels making the original rr100s in warpforged gear rank 60 Vs the rank 40s, reduced after a significant amount of time to 6 hidden levels

 

Warhammer Online now has the population of the local McDonalds

[Redmarx]

Some will say:

 

- Class balance

- Lag

- Fortresses

- Keep trading merry go round

- Lag

- Bugs

- Incomplete endgame

- Fortresses

- Lag

 

The real reason WAR, a game built around the idea of constant open world RVR, died is much, much simpler:

 

- One faction was bigger than the other and zerged the smaller outnumbered faction

- The outnumbered faction got farmed till they quit

- Bomb groups appeared to combat the zergs and made non-bomb groups quit

- The zergers got bored of empty zones and keep swapping and bomb groups farming them and quit

- Servers merged, server communities were broken up, guilds split and more people quit

- After server merges, one faction was bigger than the other and zerged... you get the idea

Edited March 21, 2012 by Redmarx

[bklynfinest]

I played a Bright Wizard in WAR. It was like being a top a serving table on the Titanic while it was sinking. Hell of a ride into doom.

[Slurmez]

Was a Blackguard, so called mirror. Loved it too until they started making changes that every player in the BG forums hated, and I mean everyone, but the didn't care.

 

Don't remember the specifics now, but remember the player base raging about something with very good arguements and the response was basically, "to bad, we think our way is best and don't care about your feedback". Sounds extreme but that's the feel a lot of us got, and that's literally like the last memory I have of the game.

 

However, I will say something mythic did that bioware is grisly being terrible about is communicating. Devs posted regularly on their boards.

 

Blackguard was mirror to Ironbreaker, SM mirrior was Black Orc

 

The devs stopped posting at all, the only things people could find from fat Carrie Gouskos was her inane tweeting about xbox acheivements

[Ravenolf]

1) The whole Warhammer team did not get moved to Star Wars. I believe they got only one manager (who could influence direction) and they were for the artistic side of the game.

 

2) Warhammer had the best world pvp I have played since Daoc. Wow had nothing to compare. Yes the nodes went back and forth, but that was the point. Servers are never going to have a static number of pop on all the time with a perfect 50/50 split between faction(s).

 

SWTOR world pvp suffered because it was not a focus. They never communicated it was. They had pvp in the game, like they have space combat in the game. They were placing their bets on story driven aspects, and those story driven aspects are 95% (more really) exclusive to the PVE side of the game.

 

Now that said, they acknowledged at the guild summit and dev tracker leading up to guild summit that they were surprised at all the PVP interest, that it was going to be a greater priority, and would get more resources dedicated to it. You all won. You did it. They are moving focus more towards pvp. Now you have to wait till you can see what those resources do. We will know when they have the replacement/fix for Ilum worked out.

 

I can't wait for GW2 to come out also. So half the forum pvp pop (not the same as player base) will take off.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Ravenolf

[Slurmez]

Some will say:

 

- Class balance

- Lag

- Fortresses

- Keep trading merry go round

- Lag

- Bugs

- Incomplete endgame

- Fortresses

- Lag

 

The real reason WAR, a game built around the idea of constant open world RVR, died is much, much simpler:

 

- One faction was bigger than the other and zerged the smaller outnumbered faction till they quit due to being farmed

- The zergers got bored of empty zones and keep swapping and quit

- Bomb groups appeared to combat the zergs and made non-bomb groups quit

- Servers merged, server communities were broken up, guilds split and more people quit

- After server merges, one faction was bigger than the other and zerged... you get the idea

 

They introduced the underdog system that actually worked wonderfully, enabling the numerically weaker realm to push hard

 

Then Carrie ruined it all

[MartyrLXXVII]

Some will say:

 

- Class balance

- Lag

- Fortresses

- Keep trading merry go round

- Lag

- Bugs

- Incomplete endgame

- Fortresses

- Lag

 

The real reason WAR, a game built around the idea of constant open world RVR, died is much, much simpler:

 

- One faction was bigger than the other and zerged the smaller outnumbered faction

- The outnumbered faction got farmed till they quit

- Bomb groups appeared to combat the zergs and made non-bomb groups quit

- The zergers got bored of empty zones and keep swapping and bomb groups farming them and quit

- Servers merged, server communities were broken up, guilds split and more people quit

- After server merges, one faction was bigger than the other and zerged... you get the idea

 

hence why open world pvp in swtor was doom from the start as well.

 

Two factions.

[MartyrLXXVII]

Blackguard was mirror to Ironbreaker, SM mirrior was Black Orc

 

The devs stopped posting at all, the only things people could find from fat Carrie Gouskos was her inane tweeting about xbox acheivements

 

It's been a while, but no... BG and SM, BO and IB. But who cares anyway, they broke the **** and it was fun in the beginning. Sadly, swtor is less fun, so doesn't bode well.

Edited March 21, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII

[Slurmez]

It's been a while, but no... BG and SM, BO and IB. But who cares anyway, they broke the **** and it was fun in the beginning. Safely, swtor is less fun, so doesn't bode well.

 

You are wrong and taking racially not mechanically, IBs had grudge BG had hate resource mechanics, BOs and SMs had the stance mechanic.

 

Just because BG and SM were elves didnt make them mirrors

 

But yes they did break it and it was fun and SW isnt nearly close to the fun levels warhammer had originally

Edited March 21, 2012 by Slurmez

[MartyrLXXVII]

You are wrong and taking racially not mechanically, IBs had grudge BG had hate resource mechanics, BOs and SMs had the stance mechanic.

 

Just because BG and SM were elves didnt make them mirrors

 

But yes they didnt break it and it was fun and SW isnt nearly close to the fun levels warhammer had originally

 

True the same resource. Wasn't thinking race though but most common/iconic combat styles, sword&board vs 2hander.

 

But yeah forgot the mechanics. Like I said they still broke the **** either way lol.

[Bartes]

Things that were wrong with Warhammer:

 

Taking falling damage from getting stuck on a rock, or a twig, or any piece of dark elf architecture or weaponry. This was a big deal. If I "fall" from a 6" height I should not take damage as if I fell off a bridge in Dragonwake. Physics is important.

 

Non-mirrored mirror classes. "The what?" you might be asking. Mirror classes were not the same. Some of them had gear and spec options that the other did not, though generally they could fulfill the same general role in a group one side was better from a min/max perspective.

 

Mechanics. DoK / WP mechanic became nullified completely when they changed their top tier gear set, you ended up being able to spam your group heal without any worry that it may run you out of juice. Sorc/BW mechanic was a bit out of control, granting them a near 100% crit rate and a 150% crit damage multiplier at the minor inconvenience of being hit for ~10% of your life when activating skill (easily offset by group heal, see above).

 

PvEmpty-Instance. The biggest joke at the end of it all was the instanced city sieges. Players would use the "scenario scoreboard" to quickly determine that they had "win" or "fail" instance and would decide to leave or stay (much like warzones). As a result what was supposed to be the culmination of all that is PVP ended up being a raid against NPCs that did not fight back. They followed a path and 'did stuff'. Well technically they were supposed to be 'prevented from' or 'protected while' doing the stuff, deepening on what faction you were and the city you were in.

 

Population Is Fine? On Iron Rock the population was so balanced that we were "defending" (lol see above) Inevitable City, the destruction capitol, every 3 to 6 hours. There would be one instance where destruction would manage to have a full raid, order players would leave this instance (I can't blame them for this, as it was usually a bunch of Pug-order and a pre-made raid of destruction). And there 3-6 instances where it was a full raid of order against half a group +/- pugs, who also had no choice but to leave.

 

I will not comment on the Skaven 'expansion', other than to say it wasn't good.

 

THIS! is the best summary what WAR had become. I was Class Leader and Core Tester (after EU/US merge) and it took me like a year to convince BW/Mythic that Blackguard is a poorly designed class. They buffed it a lil after all but it was no where near of its "mirror class". Still, it was last good patch IMO.

 

Let me say this, if you wanna PvP (RvR) game WAR was (is?) the best game there is starting from lvl 10. As soon as you step in RvR zone you are having a blast. They ruined end-game a bit but still you feel like you are in real war between factions. OFC major flaw of it was 2 sided war but only DAOC managed it in more elegant way.

 

All I see in SWTOR "PvP" are mistakes replicated from WAR but no brilliant idead taken from it. Let me just name few things. Keep sieges (where smaller number could hold keep for a very long time), public quests (for PvE casuals), open world PvP (where any class/party could be a match-winner) and last but not least objective based open PvP areas.

 

Now, what we have in SWTOR. Warzones that could be easily won if you have proper team (same was in WAR - big mistake, also pug vs premade), lack of open world PvP (Ilum was a fail since day 1), great solo PvE and group PvE (same was in WAR but quite meaningless), not exactly mirrored classes (less than in WAR but still you can clearly see what side DEVs play), lack of 3rd faction to balance the sides even if it was AI controlled like in Aion (I know crap game that went F2P, I was there).

 

finally... OMG I wanted to go to sleep but this topic caught my attention.

 

/ respect all

[Bartes]

You are wrong and taking racially not mechanically, IBs had grudge BG had hate resource mechanics, BOs and SMs had the stance mechanic.

 

Just because BG and SM were elves didnt make them mirrors

 

But yes they did break it and it was fun and SW isnt nearly close to the fun levels warhammer had originally

 

this!

 

I had BG and rocked with it and it was nowhere close to SM. Only racial similarities, mechanically wise it was supposed to be IB mirror but BW never manageg (or didn't have resources/time) to fully mirror them. BG was poor cousin of BG all the way till the end of the game.

[WrykilX]

THIS! is the best summary what WAR had become. I was Class Leader and Core Tester (after EU/US merge) and it took me like a year to convince BW/Mythic that Blackguard is a poorly designed class. They buffed it a lil after all but it was no where near of its "mirror class". Still, it was last good patch IMO.

 

Let me say this, if you wanna PvP (RvR) game WAR was (is?) the best game there is starting from lvl 10. As soon as you step in RvR zone you are having a blast. They ruined end-game a bit but still you feel like you are in real war between factions. OFC major flaw of it was 2 sided war but only DAOC managed it in more elegant way.

 

All I see in SWTOR "PvP" are mistakes replicated from WAR but no brilliant idead taken from it. Let me just name few things. Keep sieges (where smaller number could hold keep for a very long time), public quests (for PvE casuals), open world PvP (where any class/party could be a match-winner) and last but not least objective based open PvP areas.

 

Now, what we have in SWTOR. Warzones that could be easily won if you have proper team (same was in WAR - big mistake, also pug vs premade), lack of open world PvP (Ilum was a fail since day 1), great solo PvE and group PvE (same was in WAR but quite meaningless), not exactly mirrored classes (less than in WAR but still you can clearly see what side DEVs play), lack of 3rd faction to balance the sides even if it was AI controlled like in Aion (I know crap game that went F2P, I was there).

 

finally... OMG I wanted to go to sleep but this topic caught my attention.

 

/ respect all

 

Lol so YOU were the guy responsible for singlehandedly killing Blackguards' undetauntable backloaded burst in exchange for getting us an armor debuff that we didn't want (we wanted the WS buff)?

 

Well done ... well done ...

 

Sigh ...

Edited March 21, 2012 by WrykilX

[Talizzar]

I played War for quite some time. The end game content was terrible. Zergy and a lag fest. So bad the most of us re rolled and played in the lower tiers where the pvp and rvr aspects were pretty fun.

 

The pvp and rvr was decent up to Tier 3 where things started to get bad. There were two and three hour assaults on keeps that were great fun. Sometimes the keeps would switch hands quickly but not always.

 

BW's were silly OP. Other classes were pretty fair. Unless you have absolute mirrors it is very tough to balance any game. I am not sure any game has the players convinced that all the classes are balanced because nobody likes to lose.

 

The loot mechanism for keep take overs was more or less botched like the RNG here. There was some calculation on damage/healing done and I think the healers made out like bandits. People were always complaining about the same people always getting the top piece of loot gear but you could easily compete with bought gear.

 

There was open world pvp all over the place.

 

The game had lag issues in places and like SWTOR far too many servers. Game Companies apparently have no clue how to handle the immediate in rush of new players at launch then create more and more servers and then the free month runs out and 1/2 the servers are next to dead.

 

What I liked about War was that a guild could claim a keep and pay to upgrade the defenses etc and the keep would fly your guilds banner while you held it. It was a great credit drain and they had tithing in the game to help pay for keep captures.

 

The CC was out of control as well. The game was known to most as stunhammer. Pocket healers and tanks were nearly impossible to deal with. A few tanks could hold the keep door for a long time.

 

Well organized groups would allow the doors to be broken down to let the attackers in to slaughter them as you really never knew just how many were in the keep. A couple of BW on the walls added in and it was pure destruction.

 

I don't recall exactly why I quit or when but i think it was when they tried an overhaul of most of the classes, similar to 1.2 here and most people just quit.

[Aaoogaa]

so after reading some 1.2 patch notes(and thinking about the choices made so far) I cant help but shake my head and wonder if I'm only playing this game because of the star wars name power...

 

 

Ive read bit and pieces on the forums about how most of these devs came from Warhammer..what happened to that game? did it fail?

 

even reading some of their quotes make me think this is a big troll...does anyone have faith in these developers?

 

Great game but the devs refused to listen to the player base and nerf specific classes to make the game balanced. Players got tired of the lack of communication and continued inaction to restore balance to the game...i.e. 4 characters being able to hold off and kill 80 characters.

 

Once the play base left all PVE advancement was abandoned and they focused on what remaining pvp players they had left...long slow death of a great game due to poor development...sorta like what is happening here. The things the players are happy with are being destroyed and things players could give a rats *** about are being put forward as amazing changes.

[Talizzar]

Once the play base left all PVE advancement was abandoned and they focused on what remaining pvp players they had left...long slow death of a great game due to poor development...sorta like what is happening here. The things the players are happy with are being destroyed and things players could give a rats *** about are being put forward as amazing changes.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'This!

[sithterror]

Wow Warhammer..........

Havent played that game in almost 2+ years now, but still have memories good and bad. Reading through the pages i do see some similarities and reading players reactions and thoughts hope BW is going to be moar proactive than Mythic was/did.

 

The bad:

--It has all ready been covered by previous posts......classes not properly mirrored or mechanic imbalances.

--Why is it always 2 factions?? Never played DOAC but for a month then RL got me, but man when I played SWG (Pre-CU, CU and NGE) we always wanted a 3rd faction. Black Sun style mercenaries to keep things hot and interesting. DOAC did that but that was what was missing in Warhammer and this game TBH.

--2 factions always lead to faction imbalance. Dark crag was my destruction and forget my good guy server but my faction was always the underdog...2 or 3 to 1 odds. good that i didnt have to look far for a pvp fight, bad that wee usually got rolled in a long siege. look at server pops now. transfers, forced merges.....gona happen soon I think one way or the other.

--gear set imbalances. 2 fold IMO on this. Always got screwed on the drops from forts and keeps, but made out good in Lost Vale and such.

Token system was good that i could finally CONTROL my gear advancement but it was a pain collecting them sometimes due to pop imbalance.

--only allowing 100 then 150 then 200 per side go into a Fort defense/assualt on first come first serve basis.

--City seiges sucked period. more fun was had in fort and keep attacks/defense thatn the city

--Spawn camping pvp matches = lamesauce & players that couldnt die no matter if 2, 3, 4 players were beating on him.

 

The Good:

--Ya know, i liked the part of the open world system. i loved being part of a WB (Warband) and we would deploy 3 of them. 2 would assault the keeps in one of the 3 realms while the 3rd would try and sneak the claim to a lesser defended realm. flip the keeps and the assualt the main fort. Those fort and keep fights were so fun even if you lost we were in vent laughing or calling hacks, but it was still fun.

Then there was the buff reward for capturing land...sure it was more for a PvE perspective but at least denying the other side something made you feel good about doing something. I dont see anything liek that here in this game yet.

 

--having a huge zone to ride around in big bands purposely looking for the enemy, big fight small fight or a call for a duel one on one (popcorn event). nothing liek that in this game yet.

Hell, even SWG had Restuss and pvp bases on Talus, Rori, Corellia and Theed Palace to fight over control. got buffs, got consumable buffs the longer you held it from the enemy you got better consumable buffs and 1-use trinkets. The fact you had so many to take or lose amde it fun to try and stop the other side. plus, those bases had puzzles that required all the lcasses to do a part in flipping the base to own it made it more fun becuase you were ne3eded, you play3d a function other than a meatbag, bullet bump! Dotn see anything like that here in this game.

 

--Guild alliances. that was so cool to have 3 guilds all linked by chat and then made it so easy to band togehter and coordiante attacks simultaneously. Even having the chat and alliance guilds to form pvp teams. Dotn see any of that here.

 

--Tokens vs RNG for gear. Finally, getting tokens to allow me to CHOOSE what gear i need was such a better option over Warhammers RNG drops.....well SWTOR too for that matter. dont see any of that in this game except for pvp gear, which is so easy to come by it doesnt make so much a difference. at least till 1.2 drops.

 

--siege equipment to operate and aid taking down forts/keeps or taking out the enemies seige engines. dont see any of that here.

 

Guess this game has some way to go still, despite its 4 moths old and growing. i have hope, i have wants.....i just have to have paitience and trust BW will make right/better decisions for the future of my gameplay sake!

[kronomandar]

i played warhammer for 2 years, from launch until the release of rift.

 

the first 6 months was a bugfest with little incentive to pvp. keep/zone trading was the norm as actualy fighting slowed down your progression. the upper managements response was that the game was fine and they liked it how it was. very head in the sand kind of deal.

 

after about 6 months a bunch of folks at mythic lost their jobs and faults were admitted. things started to get better. bugs were patched, classes were moving towards balance, although the brightwizard/sorcs would always be flavour of the year. pvp/rvr started to happen in a big way. unbalanced server populations were still a problem. but for balanced servers the game became noticably better.

 

land of the dead expansion was introduced as a massive step backwards. mostly pve, the new zone was about first one side opening up access, zerging the hell out of any enemy faction players they found, then pveing until the other side regained access and zerged them back. only one faction could have access at a time, making reinforcements impossible.

 

towards the end of my time in the game, city sieges were altered to make them less pve in the later stages (top end gear), however premade warbands (24 players) dominated just as they do in warzones/warfronts/scenarios. pugs had no chance and it wasnt uncommon to see 3 or 4 pages of pug names on the scoreboard from the large number of quitters.

 

on the rare occasions it happened, premade vs premade city siege warband fights were epicly fun.

likewise the open world keep sieges, when numbers balanced (and this did happen, atleast on the badlands server) we a lot of fun for all involved.

 

easilly the best pvp experiences i've ever had in an mmo came from warhammer.

 

Anomandar - Blackguard - Badlands - Warhammer

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/236/index/8260604

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/236/index/3259064/1

Edited March 22, 2012 by kronomandar