Dmasterr Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Why play an DPS operative vs an tank assassin? (you can compare operative healer to other healers, this thread is about dps) This is a comparison of most important tools of those 2 classes (specs). Yellow highlights are to show which is better. Operative | Assassins Damage- great burst /average sustained | Good sustained, good setup burst. Damage mitigation 20-25%~ | Damage mitigation 45-50%~ Stealth | Stealth Vanish | Vanish hidden strike 1.5s stun | Spike - 2s stun (talented doesn't require stealth) 4 sec generic stun 4 yards | 4 sec generic stun 30 yards Evasion 1 min cd immune to white dmg 3sec | Force shroud 45 sec cd, immune to everything except white dmg for 5 seconds healing 2.5 sec cast very susceptible to interupts high resource cost | Aside dark charge procs, harness darkness uninterrupted force lighting, healing while killing you Gap closer - none. | Force speed (also removes all snares) Group utility section. Knockback- none | Aoe knockback (overload) Guard -no | Yes Taunts -no | yes Aoe Slow- no | Wither And yet operatives get nerfed and assassins not? Why would anyone bring an operative over an assassin in rated WZ. Edited March 19, 2012 by Dmasterr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Prepare to read about 20 posts on Sins telling you to L2P and "balance" or some other odd excuse they'll give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINALBOSS Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Heals, tech damage. I do enjoy how you picked to compare yourself against a TANK DPS class..especially the BEST one at the moment. There was a video earlier showing full 8v8 guild fights and operatives were VERY much holding their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveillere Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 How can you compare hidden strike to spike lol? And why would you compare a tank spec to a burst operative? Atleast compare the burst vs burst if you are going to do any comparison at all, this thread makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwild Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Do we really need another thread on this. We are beating a dead horse here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 There was a video earlier showing full 8v8 guild fights and operatives were VERY much holding their own.Being "Viable" does not make a class worth taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINALBOSS Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Being "Viable" does not make a class worth taking. I never said the word viable. They were rockin n rolling in the videos I watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) How can you compare hidden strike to spike lol? Because its about control, how much control you have over your enemy. Game is not all about button mashing dps rotation. Next thing we need is players crying that their target is moving And why would you compare a tank spec to a burst operative? Atleast compare the burst vs burst if you are going to do any comparison at all, this thread makes no sense Because it does the same job as an operative only way better with better survivability and much better group utility? did you even read past the first paragraph ? I never said the word viable. They were rockin n rolling in the videos I watched. Did you miss the videos where marauders/assassins (and others) were rocking n rolling with much better results? here is the latest gem http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=367617&highlight=sentinel oh , and they get buffed Edited March 19, 2012 by Dmasterr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I'm not going to claim that operatives don't need some love, but this is a bit of a skewed list. Hidden strike 1.5 sec stun vs Spike 2 sec stun...yes. Hidden strike also does good damage. Spike does a couple hundred. I know shield probe isn't awesome, but it's certainly worth using. Tankasins don't have an equivalent. Sever tendon is a 12s slow on 12s cooldown. Tankasin equivalent is a 6s slow on 12s cooldown (There are talents in deception to improve this, doesn't apply to tankasins). These are the 50% slows. It's true assasins do have wither. Wither is a 30% slow however. Ranged autoattack. I know it's not awesome or a big damage dealer, but it's a long range auto attack that you probably take for granted. No tankasin equivalent. Flash bang is a pretty good side move to have handy for CC, another thing probably taken for granted. No tankasin equivalent. So assasins don't flatly outclass them in everything. Source: My lev 50 assasin and lev 50 operative =P Edited March 19, 2012 by ShadowOfVey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINALBOSS Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Did you miss the videos where marauders/assassins (and others) were rocking n rolling with much better results? here is the latest gem http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=367617&highlight=sentinel oh , and they get buffed Except I was comparing organized 8v8...and you were posting a highlight video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveillere Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Did you miss the videos where marauders/assassins (and others) were rocking n rolling with much better results? here is the latest gem http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=367617&highlight=sentinel oh , and they get buffed Your own fault for choosing a burst class, tanksins dont make burst damage which makes it stupid to compare them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi_don Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 much better burst, better on target and aoe control.... Not to mention heals are usable on others do a like for like against deception and you'll see why so many have gone darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Acherus Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Prepare to read about 20 posts on Sins telling you to L2P and "balance" or some other odd excuse they'll give. Funny comming from a pyrotech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Your own fault for choosing a burst class, tanksins dont make burst damage which makes it stupid to compare them. Tanksins do have decent burst damage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dankbawls Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What people fail to realize is that there is NOTHING WRONG with the assassin tank SPEC. The Darkness tree is FINE. A tank assassin in TANK GEAR is totally legit and working as intended. As soon as you add DPS GEAR to a tank assassin, thats when they become OP, and really only OP to those who don't know how to fight them. Until they find a way to make it so that people can't use DPS gear while in a tank spec, assassin's will remain the way that they are. I personally would love to see more deception specc'ed assassin's but a) their burst is wayyyyywayayayway too predictable if you are even remotely good at identifying your opponent and b) they can be beat reliably by a tank assassin wearing their same gear. Recap: The tanksin darkness tree is fine and working as intended, once you add dps gear it becomes overpowered because of the STATS THE GEAR PROVIDE not because the tree is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveillere Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Tanksins do have decent burst damage... Yeah after a 30 second build up to get 3 procs of HD but how can you call that burst damage? And its easy to counter for many classes, you cant counter the burst of an operative if he gest you first, and you can also EASILY counter the burst damage of a deception sin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainInsano Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) It's been known for a while that Operatives don't stack up compared to Assassins. With the cooldown on Hidden Strike, there is now literally nothing an Operative can do that an Assassin can't do better. Concealment heals are worthless but Assassins free resource, off the GCD taunts are always worthwhile. I predict <1% representation for DPS Operatives in rated. Edited March 19, 2012 by CaptainInsano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveillere Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What people fail to realize is that there is NOTHING WRONG with the assassin tank SPEC. The Darkness tree is FINE. A tank assassin in TANK GEAR is totally legit and working as intended. As soon as you add DPS GEAR to a tank assassin, thats when they become OP, and really only OP to those who don't know how to fight them. Until they find a way to make it so that people can't use DPS gear while in a tank spec, assassin's will remain the way that they are. I personally would love to see more deception specc'ed assassin's but a) their burst is wayyyyywayayayway too predictable if you are even remotely good at identifying your opponent and b) they can be beat reliably by a tank assassin wearing their same gear. Recap: The tanksin darkness tree is fine and working as intended, once you add dps gear it becomes overpowered because of the STATS THE GEAR PROVIDE not because the tree is broken. I'll have to agree with this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I'm not going to claim that operatives don't need some love, but this is a bit of a skewed list. Hidden strike 1.5 sec stun vs Spike 2 sec stun...yes. Hidden strike also does good damage. Spike does a couple hundred. Its for control purposes and can be used as an interrupt, and their signature move "shock" does more damage than anything an operative has on a much lower cooldown I know shield probe isn't awesome, but it's certainly worth using. Tankasins don't have an equivalent. Tank assassins have way higher dmg mitigation and they heal while killing you, no need to rely on a separate 2.5 sec cast. Sever tendon is a 12s slow on 12s cooldown. Tankasin equivalent is a 6s slow on 12s cooldown (There are talents in deception to improve this, doesn't apply to tankasins) They have wither, AOE slow with 7.5 sec cooldown that also does a good bit of damage. Ranged autoattack. I know it's not awesome or a big damage dealer, but it's a long range auto attack that you probably take for granted. No tankasin equivalent. I do not take it for granted, but it is garbage, and if tankassassin really need that range they can use recklessness for 30 yard force lighting. (which also guarantees 3 critical hits Flash bang is a pretty good side move to have handy for CC, another thing probably taken for granted. No tankasin equivalent. I do not take it for granted, yes its an ok ability, however tankassassin also have whirlwind. Sure its not aoe, but in group fights they get broken immediately anyway So assasins don't flatly outclass them in everything. They pretty much do even in 1v1, if you cared to watch the hosted tournament posted on the pvp forums, they were #1, with marauders second. and in group fights they have the utility of ALL classes COMBINED vs 0 utility of operative. Answered in yellow Edited March 19, 2012 by Dmasterr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The greatest difference is the heal and the burst. Honestly, assassins best spec is tank or tank/hybrid. Not really a lot of burst in there. They also have a pull, speed burst and force cloak which are really great in huttball. Operatives have evasion which isn't as good as force cloak but it is still good. Snare root. Armor Penetration And heal which no one seems to spec for. The heal is really the best especially in alderaan and voidstar. Vanish, then hide then heal allows the operative to get into the fight asap. DOesn't even matter if he gets hit, it is easy to get 2 heals off to get 75% health. Assassins have to vanish, hide, then seethe which takes a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwild Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Answered in yellow I think you have to stop complaining about this topic. We've been arguing this for weeks now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveillere Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Answered in yellow You clearly don't know anything about assassins. First of all you compared TANK spec to operative burst, then you go and answer this guy with BURST vs BURST because shock doesn't do NEARLY, barely half the damage of hidden strike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwild Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 and ps. Shock hits less then almost everyone of our attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The only burst tank spec assassins have is assassinate which is only useable to players below 30% health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 If you had to chose between playing a bis gear operative in patch 1.2 or a bis gear assassin which would you chose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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