Juggernauts vs Marauder PVP.

[Scerge]

I believe a juggernaut has the better surviability, remember in WoW how arms warriors are always better then fury warriors?

 

It's because of arms has one lightsaber and mara has two, the one handed one always has better defence skills than the one with two.

[Goretzu]

 

Rage Juggs still pop higher Smash numbers than Rage Mara's in equal gear. They have 30% more power due to a talent in the Vengeance tree. In PvP, burst is king, not sustained. I would argue that in the current PvP game state, a Rage Jugg IS better than a Rage Mara, but 1.2 is looking to change that.

 

A Marauder can do nothing except deal damage, of course they will excel at it! While we're on the topic, why don't we compare Operatives or Assassins to Marauders? Oh they're hybrids you say? HMM... BW has confirmed they want Marauder to be the top melee damage dealer, which I for one think is perfectly deserving.

 

 

Which is fine, but then a Rage Jugg needs something over a Rage Marauder, if not DPS then utility or surviability.

 

With the current 1.2 changes a Rage Jugg will be better at NONE of those things.

 

How can that be "balanced"?

[Hardsteel]

Bioware never should have made 2 AC talent tree in first place and you guys are comparing apples to oranges in terms of play, But your whole tropic is about PVP which now I see that its a narrow minded tropic about really nothing ...lol

[bananaface]

I believe a juggernaut has the better surviability, remember in WoW how arms warriors are always better then fury warriors?

 

It's because of arms has one lightsaber and mara has two, the one handed one always has better defence skills than the one with two.

 

wow and swtor aint the same.

play a jugg

then play a mara

see wich has the highest survivability as dps, mara wins by a mile.

[ExpLiciTSainT]

wow and swtor aint the same.

play a jugg

then play a mara

see wich has the highest survivability as dps, mara wins by a mile.

 

Yep. Mile might even be short.

[furiousferret]

When I play my Sentinel, I am envious of the Jugg utility. When I'm on my Jugg, I am amazed by the Marauder / Sentinel Damage. I think its close but I would put the edge to a Sentinel.

 

If you factor in protection + dps on a Jugg vs. DPS on a Marauder on average the Marauder will come up on top and to me that's the way it has to be added. The Jugg utility is better but not by much. In Huttball its huge but the other 2 the utilty doesnt help as much.

 

I dont think the Jugg is that far behind the Marauder but to be honest I think Mara DPS outshines a Jugg because Jugg lose some dps in Soresu and correctly taunting you have to switch off your target many times to taunt and go back to your dps.

 

To be honest i think Bioware puts too much value into our taunts. Dont get me wrong they are good but an extra 10% dps will outshine it easily. Guard is awesome but again, in Soresu guard is amazing but our dps output is noticeably bad.

 

I dont have many complaints on my Jugg but I am concerned that 1.2 is going to pigeonhole us into a certain spec for pvp. I love Rage but I dont only want to play Rage for the next year.

 

I am happy for Marauders as they seem to have not really been buffed but now have 3 viable trees, which I do think the goal should be.

[Darth-Rammstein]

I love how people are going "juggernauts are a tank class that's why you can't do more damage". That's like saying assassin, pt, sorc, or any other class that has an option for tanking or healing besides dps cannot do it. You can only heal or tank, that's it. That is such a black and white view of things.

[Vember]

It's because of arms has one lightsaber and mara has two, the one handed one always has better defence skills than the one with two.

 

Except in this game, they don't....

 

Has no one bothered to actually look at the defensive cooldowns AND utility that marauders bring to the table? For every moron here that says "but marauders ONLY DPS!!!", God kills a kitten. Marauder defense skills far, far outshine anything juggernaut dps has available.

 

When I play my Sentinel, I am envious of the Jugg utility.

 

 

By utility, do you mean the teamwide healing that juggs do? Oh wait, that's marauder...

 

do you mean the team wide damage buff? Oops, marauder again.

 

Oh wait, you were talking about the team wide 80% runspeed /10% mitigation buff, right? Ouch, that's marauder too.

 

Oooh, the heal debuff! Oh, no...sorry, wrong again.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Vember

[Dirtysolutions]

I have a 50 juggernaut and 50 marauder myself so I have had the experience of playing both in pvp.

 

I play both depending on the mood im in and how I want to try and pvp that day.

 

What I don't get reading the forums is all the Juggernaut belly aching. Guys seriously Juggernaut is a tank class. You are not meant to be the big damage dealer..

 

I hear people tell me when juggernauts are just the 2nd tier guy in pvp and that marauder/sentinel is the bomb.

 

Well from my point of view as a decent but not uber player. Juggernaut is viewed incorrectly.

 

As an Immortal spec for pvp whos gear is champion working on bm. I don't approach pvp with the mindset that im going to kill anyone, infact I don't care if I kill a single person.

 

What I do enjoy is.....my ability to guard my team mates, the ability to absorb damage and protect turrets, doors, the ability to carry the ball in huttball and take craploads of damage all the while running to the end. I honestly feel I did my job when I have to be focused fired down by the other team. All the while my only concern is buying time for my team to get to where I am or to buy them time to say get the bomb on the other door etc.

 

Force Leap, Force Push, Force Choke, Screams, Shields, Hp Increases, aoe stuns.

 

All summed up. I work to assist my team since pvp in this game is TEAM.

 

Again this is my view on this class but seriously if your crying about dps as a juggernaut in our HEAVY armor, Shields, Absorption filled skills, varied cc abilities. You might want to re roll a dps class. FYI the dps classes are those guys in squishy gear, carrying the "im going to hurt you really bad and make you cry weapons"

 

 

 

Bla bla bla - yes being a "tank-class" certainly stopped warriors in wow from 2-shotting ppl left and right. And swtor isnt suppose to be like wow (no you dont have to be a tank due to chosen to play jugg , as in "if the AC has a dps-tree that means it is supposed to be viable as dps, speccing that tree". As ive understood it Bio has stated that an AC with a the possibility to spec dps, is meant to be viable as dps as well. That means that JUgg is not a TANK-ONLY, it is an AC with 1(ONE) tank tree and 2 (TWO) trees for dps. So give it a rest. No its not A TANK CLASS , it is an AC with the possibility to go spec into 1(ONE) tank-tree.

 

Is pyrotech limited by having a tank-tree?

 

pls correct me if I have missudnerstood anything.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Dirtysolutions

[Goretzu]

Except in this game, they don't....

 

Has no one bothered to actually look at the defensive cooldowns AND utility that marauders bring to the table? For every moron here that says "but marauders ONLY DPS!!!", God kills a kitten. Marauder defense skills far, far outshine anything juggernaut dps has available.

 

 

 

That's what I find baffling, surely Bioware with their vaunted "metrics" understand how squishy a Rage Jugg is vs a Rage Mara vs their DPS and utility, currently never mind in 1.2?

[bountyhunterzzzz]

I don't mean to sound ignorant or bias as I play a marauder.......but yes we have tue best defensive CDs in game, why? Cause were are MEDIUM armor as soon as our CDs are down were paper jugs have heavy armor you people seem to forget that that actually does make a big difference in survivability. Of course we are going to do more damage we don't have the option to tank or heal, AND I have seen plenty of jugs constantly breaking 300k and racking up defense points and scoring balls maras don't bring anything but dps to a TEAM game, sure a few raid buffs but guarding a healer is 10x better then a speed buff or a small amount of aoe heals, it's not that much and won't stop a burst attack........stop crying unsubscribe or re-roll like all the other scrubs will the classes are balanced infect because of the skill curve for maras I see jugs out dps us constantly

 

Sorry for the wall of text it's 5am lol

[SIDIOUSFAN]

Juggernaut is not a tank class. Period. Juggernaut can be specialized as a tank if spec immortal or dps if vengeance or rage.

 

Stop talking about juggernaut as only a tank class, it's not the case.

 

And if your opinion is that juggernauts should only be tanks, and marauders dps, : your overpowered defensive cool downs should be nerfed so your survivability isn't better than tank class one.

Edited March 21, 2012 by SIDIOUSFAN

[bountyhunterzzzz]

Juggernaut is not a tank class. Period. Juggernaut can be specialized as a tank if spec immortal or dps if vengeance or rage.

 

Stop talking about juggernaut as only a tank class, it's not the case.

 

And if your opinion is that juggernauts should only be tanks, and marauders dps, : your overpowered defensive cool downs should be nerfed so your survivability isn't better than tank class one.

 

I don't think they are just a tank class, but it's still a utility you have, wanna dps better? Increase jugs damage slightly and take away their ability to guard people while dps specced, see how many groups want you then, and as I stated once our CDs are down we're paper, take our CDs away and give us heavy armor I'd be ok with that

[bananaface]

I don't think they are just a tank class, but it's still a utility you have, wanna dps better? Increase jugs damage slightly and take away their ability to guard people while dps specced, see how many groups want you then, and as I stated once our CDs are down we're paper, take our CDs away and give us heavy armor I'd be ok with that

 

cant guard peeps while in a dps lightsaber form.

switching into the tank lightsaber form gimps your dps by a lot.

[HitokiriKobra]

lots of whinning and crying here. But this WZ's aint about 1vs1. it is all about team effort to win and knowing ur role as a player. I play a Rage Jugg and i love it.

 

For huttballs it is great to be a jugg. You can be all over the place helping your team to score. On my server im loved cuz my scoring abilities with Force charge to the enemy, then can force push em to their endzone and charge em to score or even intercede out of your team to score. It is quiet great set of skills specially with teaming with Scorcerer who can pull u around.

 

For Alderaan it is great to find a bunch of people fighting together and just go in and smash em all for 3k-5k+ Put a big dent on their HP.

 

Like i said before this game isnt about 1vs1. I consider jugg to be a great support DPS class. I dont go fighting people 1vs1 unless i have no choice which is pretty pointless on a WZ. Play as a team know ur role and beat the damn republic!

[bountyhunterzzzz]

lots of whinning and crying here. But this WZ's aint about 1vs1. it is all about team effort to win and knowing ur role as a player. I play a Rage Jugg and i love it.

 

For huttballs it is great to be a jugg. You can be all over the place helping your team to score. On my server im loved cuz my scoring abilities with Force charge to the enemy, then can force push em to their endzone and charge em to score or even intercede out of your team to score. It is quiet great set of skills specially with teaming with Scorcerer who can pull u around.

 

For Alderaan it is great to find a bunch of people fighting together and just go in and smash em all for 3k-5k+ Put a big dent on their HP.

 

Like i said before this game isnt about 1vs1. I consider jugg to be a great support DPS class. I dont go fighting people 1vs1 unless i have no choice which is pretty pointless on a WZ. Play as a team know ur role and beat the damn republic!

 

^this

[Poe_]

lots of whinning and crying here. But this WZ's aint about 1vs1. it is all about team effort to win and knowing ur role as a player. I play a Rage Jugg and i love it.

 

For huttballs it is great to be a jugg. You can be all over the place helping your team to score. On my server im loved cuz my scoring abilities with Force charge to the enemy, then can force push em to their endzone and charge em to score or even intercede out of your team to score. It is quiet great set of skills specially with teaming with Scorcerer who can pull u around.

 

For Alderaan it is great to find a bunch of people fighting together and just go in and smash em all for 3k-5k+ Put a big dent on their HP.

 

Like i said before this game isnt about 1vs1. I consider jugg to be a great support DPS class. I dont go fighting people 1vs1 unless i have no choice which is pretty pointless on a WZ. Play as a team know ur role and beat the damn republic!

^

This ... ...

[bountyhunterzzzz]

Although classes have the ability to tank or heal it doesn't mean they CAN'T dps but it does mean they are considered a support dps, snipers and maras are the only true dps classes in game, when u see a specs chart you'll see top damage BUT alot of the time ull see alot of healing, a good PT will switch to ion gas cylinder and guard a carrier when needed, a jug is no different, they are support dps, cry or re-roll it's how the class was designed. As bioware would say "working as intended"

[Qareens]

full bm juggernaut dps has with 2 k less hp than a dps bounty hunter )

and ppl call us tanks

we are so squishy and our dps isn`t that great

so yea , stop call us a tanky class, because it doesn`t matter that we wear heavy armour ,we still have 30% dmg reduction, what a joke

edit: ohh and we got 1 defensive cd when marauders got 3 the one with reduced damage , the one that if we hit them we take damage and the one when they go invis and take 90% reduced damage

Edited March 21, 2012 by Qareens

[Thankyjack]

I just like the name Bananaface.

[Grishnaak]

full bm juggernaut dps has with 2 k less hp than a dps bounty hunter )

and ppl call us tanks

we are so squishy and our dps isn`t that great

so yea , stop call us a tanky class, because it doesn`t matter that we wear heavy armour ,we still have 30% dmg reduction, what a joke

edit: ohh and we got 1 defensive cd when marauders got 3 the one with reduced damage , the one that if we hit them we take damage and the one when they go invis and take 90% reduced damage

 

Maro´s don´t wear shield equip. 2 Sabers. No shield absorbtion. They wear medium armor. As mentioned countless times before, Maros can do nothing but dmg, whereas Jugs can tank and do dmg and survive. If you survive less than a Maro, than maybe ur playstyle doesn´t fit the Jug´s class and you should consider rerolling.

 

Therefore, as Maros are only dmg oriented, they should and have to excel in this over other classes, which, BY DESIGN, have another focus like tanking and support and support dps, like the Jug, BUT not MAIN DPS, like the Maro.

 

....always those ppl who want the egg-laying-wool-milk sow.

 

Play a Maro if you want DMG, play Jug if you want to tank and support and survive longer.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Grishnaak

[bananaface]

Maro´s don´t wear shield equip. 2 Sabers. No shield absorbtion. They wear medium armor. As mentioned countless times before, Maros can do nothing but dmg, whereas Jugs can tank and do dmg and survive. If you survive less than a Maro, than maybe ur playstyle doesn´t fit the Jug´s class and you should consider rerolling.

 

Therefore, as Maros are only dmg oriented, they should and have to excel in this over other classes, which, BY DESIGN, have another focus like tanking and support and support dps, like the Jug, BUT not MAIN DPS, like the Maro.

 

....always those ppl who want the egg-laying-wool-milk sow.

 

Play a Maro if you want DMG, play Jug if you want to tank and support and survive longer.

 

a dps jugg doesnt wear a shield.

shields only work vs white dmg wich pretty much doesnt exist apart from snipers.

a dps jugg cant effectively dps in soresu form.

difference between medium and heavy armor isn't noticeable in pvp.

you cant tank and dps as a jugg at the same time, its either of the two.

bioware wants dps from hybrid classes and pure dps classes within a 5% range of each other.

 

how does that one taste hmm?

[bananaface]

and ***, we got mario in a star wars game?

[Smashbrother]

I have a 50 juggernaut and 50 marauder myself so I have had the experience of playing both in pvp.

 

I play both depending on the mood im in and how I want to try and pvp that day.

 

What I don't get reading the forums is all the Juggernaut belly aching. Guys seriously Juggernaut is a tank class. You are not meant to be the big damage dealer..

 

I hear people tell me when juggernauts are just the 2nd tier guy in pvp and that marauder/sentinel is the bomb.

 

Well from my point of view as a decent but not uber player. Juggernaut is viewed incorrectly.

 

As an Immortal spec for pvp whos gear is champion working on bm. I don't approach pvp with the mindset that im going to kill anyone, infact I don't care if I kill a single person.

 

What I do enjoy is.....my ability to guard my team mates, the ability to absorb damage and protect turrets, doors, the ability to carry the ball in huttball and take craploads of damage all the while running to the end. I honestly feel I did my job when I have to be focused fired down by the other team. All the while my only concern is buying time for my team to get to where I am or to buy them time to say get the bomb on the other door etc.

 

Force Leap, Force Push, Force Choke, Screams, Shields, Hp Increases, aoe stuns.

 

All summed up. I work to assist my team since pvp in this game is TEAM.

 

Again this is my view on this class but seriously if your crying about dps as a juggernaut in our HEAVY armor, Shields, Absorption filled skills, varied cc abilities. You might want to re roll a dps class. FYI the dps classes are those guys in squishy gear, carrying the "im going to hurt you really bad and make you cry weapons"

 

Your entire point is completely invalidated by the fact that guardians have TWO dps trees. Just because we have a tanking tree does not mean we have or should be tanks in pvp. A lot of people rolled guardians because of the iconic single saber look vs. the dual saber look sentinels have, and not because they wanted to tank. Guardian dps is also fine in pve, so your whole "you rolled guardian so you must tank" logic is worthless. Oh, the other two tanking class are much better tanks in both pvp and pve btw.

 

Sages and commandos can heal, and according to your logic they should all be healers and stop whining about changes to dps trees (whether its warranted or not). You're dumb.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Smashbrother]

Maro´s don´t wear shield equip. 2 Sabers. No shield absorbtion. They wear medium armor. As mentioned countless times before, Maros can do nothing but dmg, whereas Jugs can tank and do dmg and survive. If you survive less than a Maro, than maybe ur playstyle doesn´t fit the Jug´s class and you should consider rerolling.

 

Therefore, as Maros are only dmg oriented, they should and have to excel in this over other classes, which, BY DESIGN, have another focus like tanking and support and support dps, like the Jug, BUT not MAIN DPS, like the Maro.

 

....always those ppl who want the egg-laying-wool-milk sow.

 

Play a Maro if you want DMG, play Jug if you want to tank and support and survive longer.

 

You've clearly never seen any good sentinels in action. They have crazy *** survivability in pvp. Far better than dps guardians, and just as good as tank guardians.