PvP AP in 1.2 - is anyone else super excited?

[Theology]

Dream big bro. AP is and will continue to be complete garbage in any high rank PVP scene.

 

^ Emphasizing this.

[exphryl]

Easy change:

 

1) Remove Immolate

2) New 31 Point Talent: Flamethrower can be used while moving

 

!! Blamo. It's useful in PvP now (kinda)

 

Even with the snare and easier stacks its a very easily avoidable move, plus the "cone" is rather small so it's just a few steps either way to avoid it.

[Agooz]

Easy change:

 

1) Remove Immolate

2) New 31 Point Talent: Flamethrower can be used while moving

 

!! Blamo. It's useful in PvP now (kinda)

 

Even with the snare and easier stacks its a very easily avoidable move, plus the "cone" is rather small so it's just a few steps either way to avoid it.

 

Remove the hardest hitting talent in the tree? No, not a good idea.

Remove the RB instead.

Make Prototype Flame Thrower add 15% per stack but only stack 3x (so there is a net 5% less damage) but you get to use it more often, which would make Advanced Tools useful.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Paralassa
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[theangryllama]

Remove the hardest hitting talent in the tree? No, not a good idea.

Remove the RB instead.

Make Prototype Flame Thrower add 15% per stack but only stack 3x (so there is a net 5% less damage) but you get to use it more often, which would make Advanced Tools useful.

 

With Immolate now also adding a stack the last change is kind of pointless as there is next to no chance provided your staying on your target that you can't build 5 stacks in 15s.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Bewzled]

To start, I am the top Pyro Powertech on my server. I will be going AP for rated when 1.2 launches. I've been using a pyro spec since I started PvPing and it's really getting old stomping people into the ground with ridiculous burst and 600k damage every wz. AP has never been bad as a PvE damage spec - but currently as everyone knows it has a ton of problems in PvP. MOST of those problems are actually being eliminated in 1.2.

 

The first problem is the lack of snare, I believe the 30% added to RB is fair, considering we get a 15% speed boost. The flamethrower changes, I believe, are more amazing than some may think. Most notably the 70% snare - this will keep every target in the AoE. The animation of FT is deceiving - the AoE is actually very large. If you want to know how big the AoE is, make a trooper and look at Pulse Cannon. That's the real aoe.

 

The buff to Immolate adding a charge is quite fair - it's a straight DPS boost and allows you to get the BBQ flamethrower off quicker.

 

The second major problem is the RNG of charged gauntlets. Yes, the chance to proc on tic is a great buff. But the RNG is still there, and it's quite ridiculous. The solution here is simple: Remove the ridiculous RNG of Charged Gauntlets and simply make it an 100% chance to proc on Retractable Blade. If Bioware made this change it would give AP a much more reliable spike damage burst, which is truly needed. That and since Railshot needs the RB dot to work, this change would make perfect sense.

 

On the topic of flamethrower again, currently it is a highly situational ability for my Pyro spec. But in those situations, it is VERY powerful. AP knocks out alot of that situational requirement with Hydrolic overrides and the huge snare.

 

 

Now, what AP has that some people may overlook. Hydrolic overrides is quite a good ability - especially for huttball. Some strats can work to rely on this. The second quite overlooked talent is Stabilized armor - do not underestimate this talent. It is WORTH TAKING over Hitman. The 20% is a straight additive 20% to both your physical and force/tech mitigation, meaning that it is actually reducing your incoming damage by MORE than 20%. This is exactly the same with Energy Shield - it will actually reduce incoming damage by much more than 25%. These two things stack additively to give you 45% added mitigation when stunned. Added onto the standard 30% heavy armor mitigation, this takes you to 75% damage reduction. This cuts your incoming damage to almost a THIRD (a factor of 2.8 to be specific) of what damage you would normally take. Without energy shield, Stabilized armor cuts your incoming damaged while stunned by a factor of 1.4, which is quite potent. But even more potent when your Energy Shield is up.

 

But, AP still has fundamental weaknesses when compared to Pyro. Mainly that it is lacking in the ranged department. It is also a tree with a much higher skillcap - positioning and clever use of HO is necessary. Honestly, Pyro is VERY faceroll. I've played Pyro for a while now - and you only really utilize three ablities to burst someone into the ground.

 

Anyways, I don't know for sure that AP will turn out good. But I'm going to try my best to make it work. In the end, if after a while I feel that it just isn't performing, I can always go back to Pyro.

 

To summarize what changes AP still needs:

 

-Make charged gauntlets an 100% chance to proc on RB, remove the rocket punch component. Leave the ridiculous RNG to the Pyro tree.

 

-Reduce the CD on Hydrolic Overrides. 30s is too long, - something like 24 seconds would be more reasonable and would better line up for when you have 5 stacks of flamethrower.

 

-Make the prototype flamethrower also render you immune to stuns for the duration. This greatly increases the synergy it currently has with HO, and is a very reasonable change.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Bewzled

[Hizoka]

To start, I am the top Pyro Powertech on my server. I will be going AP for rated when 1.2 launches. I've been using a pyro spec since I started PvPing and it's really getting old stomping people into the ground with ridiculous burst and 600k damage every wz. AP has never been bad as a PvE damage spec - but currently as everyone knows it has a ton of problems in PvP. MOST of those problems are actually being eliminated in 1.2.

 

The first problem is the lack of snare, I believe the 30% added to RB is fair, considering we get a 15% speed boost. The flamethrower changes, I believe, are more amazing than some may think. Most notably the 70% snare - this will keep every target in the AoE. The animation of FT is deceiving - the AoE is actually very large. If you want to know how big the AoE is, make a trooper and look at Pulse Cannon. That's the real aoe.

 

The buff to Immolate adding a charge is quite fair - it's a straight DPS boost and allows you to get the BBQ flamethrower off quicker.

 

The second major problem is the RNG of charged gauntlets. Yes, the chance to proc on tic is a great buff. But the RNG is still there, and it's quite ridiculous. The solution here is simple: Remove the ridiculous RNG of Charged Gauntlets and simply make it an 100% chance to proc on Retractable Blade. If Bioware made this change it would give AP a much more reliable spike damage burst, which is truly needed. That and since Railshot needs the RB dot to work, this change would make perfect sense.

 

On the topic of flamethrower again, currently it is a highly situational ability for my Pyro spec. But in those situations, it is VERY powerful. AP knocks out alot of that situational requirement with Hydrolic overrides and the huge snare.

 

 

Now, what AP has that some people may overlook. Hydrolic overrides is quite a good ability - especially for huttball. Some strats can work to rely on this. The second quite overlooked talent is Stabilized armor - do not underestimate this talent. It is WORTH TAKING over Hitman. The 20% is a straight additive 20% to both your physical and force/tech mitigation, meaning that it is actually reducing your incoming damage by MORE than 20%. This is exactly the same with Energy Shield - it will actually reduce incoming damage by much more than 25%. These two things stack additively to give you 45% added mitigation when stunned. Added onto the standard 30% heavy armor mitigation, this takes you to 75% damage reduction. This cuts your incoming damage to almost a THIRD (a factor of 2.8 to be specific) of what damage you would normally take. Without energy shield, Stabilized armor cuts your incoming damaged while stunned by a factor of 1.4, which is quite potent. But even more potent when your Energy Shield is up.

 

But, AP still has fundamental weaknesses when compared to Pyro. Mainly that it is lacking in the ranged department. It is also a tree with a much higher skillcap - positioning and clever use of HO is necessary. Honestly, Pyro is VERY faceroll. I've played Pyro for a while now - and you only really utilize three ablities to burst someone into the ground.

 

Anyways, I don't know for sure that AP will turn out good. But I'm going to try my best to make it work. In the end, if after a while I feel that it just isn't performing, I can always go back to Pyro.

 

To summarize what changes AP still needs:

 

-Make charged gauntlets an 100% chance to proc on RB, remove the rocket punch component. Leave the ridiculous RNG to the Pyro tree.

 

-Reduce the CD on Hydrolic Overrides. 30s is too long, - something like 24 seconds would be more reasonable and would better line up for when you have 5 stacks of flamethrower.

 

-Make the prototype flamethrower also render you immune to stuns for the duration. This greatly increases the synergy it currently has with HO, and is a very reasonable change.

 

finally an imp smart enough to understand AP can be very good when play right. Everyone says its got easy heat management, its got consistant heat management but a higher skillcap needed to play it well.

 

 

Pyro is gonna die for the FOTM burst spec, it was never ment to be and its sad to see so many imps incappable of realizing it. The repubs know the spec was RNG based win, not skill based win.

[IlynPayne]

finally an imp smart enough to understand AP can be very good when play right. Everyone says its got easy heat management, its got consistant heat management but a higher skillcap needed to play it well.

 

 

Pyro is gonna die for the FOTM burst spec, it was never ment to be and its sad to see so many imps incappable of realizing it. The repubs know the spec was RNG based win, not skill based win.

 

republic got the same spec, you know?

 

[Theology]

To start, I am the top Pyro Powertech on my server.

 

Stopped reading here.

[Bewzled]

republic got the same spec, you know?

 

 

I could even argue that the Assault spec vanguard is superior to pyro PT, because of the legit instant cast Ion pulse and High impact bolt. Although they do have a crappy full auto and mortar volley, but those are getting fixed.

 

 

Stopped reading here.

 

Take it as you will. I lead every other PT/VG on my server with any spec, not just Pyro.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Bewzled

[Theology]

Dream big bro. AP is and will continue to be complete garbage in any high rank PVP scene.

 

Again. Any serious 8 man team will never run with this. Absolutely useless.

[Hizoka]

Again. Any serious 8 man team will never run with this. Absolutely useless.

 

and you are the exact person that get rofled by a keyboard turning backpeddler and think its impossible.

 

 

sorry you are not able to grasp that AP is a good spec, and its getting better, just because you lack the ability to play it doesn't mean everyone else is like you.

 

 

Good teams take good players, bad teams limit specs.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Hizoka

[Theology]

Have fun standing still with your flamethrower, good players will know it's got beefed up damage and will stop you with one swift CC. Even with the 6 sec ICD on PPA, the damage and burst capabilities of that tree far outweigh your ability to do an un-interrupted flamethrower.

[exphryl]

 

sorry you are not able to grasp that AP is a good spec, and its getting better, just because you lack the ability to play it doesn't mean everyone else is like you.

 

.

 

 

What does AP Bring to PvP Again?

[Assaultrooper]

finally an imp smart enough to understand AP can be very good when play right. Everyone says its got easy heat management, its got consistant heat management but a higher skillcap needed to play it well.

 

 

Pyro is gonna die for the FOTM burst spec, it was never ment to be and its sad to see so many imps incappable of realizing it. The repubs know the spec was RNG based win, not skill based win.

 

HELLO I AM TOP PT in my server!!! How do I know?? I am just THAT good. I play AP right now and I am tired of stomping people into the ground so once 1.2 comes Ill be respeccing Pyro so theres some sort of balance and to make it challenging.

[Pendrych]

Have fun standing still with your flamethrower, good players will know it's got beefed up damage and will stop you with one swift CC. Even with the 6 sec ICD on PPA, the damage and burst capabilities of that tree far outweigh your ability to do an un-interrupted flamethrower.

 

This is exactly what the nay-sayers can't seem to grasp. AP requires using your entire toolbox, which is one reason I find it more engaging than Pyro when I run with a DPS build. Pyro is built entirely around rail shot procs. No rail shot proc, no pyro DPS. The buffed flamethrower is just one of AP's tools; the spec doesn't revolve around it.

 

Besides, a CC spent shutting down that flamethrower is a CC not spent on the ball carrier, or a healer, or the guy capping a point or placing a bomb. Even in its current incarnation, forcing a cluster of healers to either reposition or take damage rather than chain casting can be valuable.

[Nanarchist]

Plus the flamethrower only has a 15sec CD, so it's not like an interrupted DFA

[Agooz]

finally an imp smart enough to understand AP can be very good when play right. Everyone says its got easy heat management, its got consistant heat management but a higher skillcap needed to play it well.

 

 

Pyro is gonna die for the FOTM burst spec, it was never ment to be and its sad to see so many imps incappable of realizing it. The repubs know the spec was RNG based win, not skill based win.

 

And Sorc is Utility (bubble, speed, pulls) win, not skill win. And Maraud is just pop your cooldown win, not skill win. And assassin is just hybrid spec win, not skill win. And Operative is just stun win, not skill win. You are the biggest attention whhhr in this thread. lol

 

Plus, he never said AP is VERY GOOD. He specifically said he will try it, and if it doesnt work, he'll go back to pyro LOL

 

We will all one day erect a statue in your name, Hero of the AP tree. Since when was Pyros FOTM spec? I recall getting into WZs with 14 out of 18 being Sorc. I dont think ANYONE every seen 14 out of 18 Pyros. In fact I dont think I ever saw more than TWO PTs let alone Pyros in one WZ. And as anyone who understand PvP and knows very well, DAMAGE hardly wins games, utilities and heals on the other hand DO. So even when you faceroll with 600k damage, and can take out people with back to back Railshots, it will never be a game changer like a well timed Rescue/extrication, bubble/speedboost to the goal line, friendly jump from down in the pit, etc...

 

Go ahead and relish your insane AP tree, which requires a master degree in PvP. We, pvp high school drop outs will play the FOTM.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Meluna
insults

[Slowmojo]

People are getting to excited.

 

AP is still heavily reliant on melee range opposed to Pyrotech.

Pyro may lack mobility compared to AP, but compensates that by having a much larger array of useful dps abilities to use at range.

 

Indenciary Missile, Rail Shot, Thermal Detonator

Rapid Fire and Unload gain a 9% damage boost as Pyro

10m Flame Bursts.

 

AP is going to be great for harrasing opponents and keeping healers busy.

Hydraulic Overrides will make you a good ball carrier in Huttball over bridges, but doesn't really compare to charge and intercede, Force Speed, etc.

 

Not trying to burst anyones bubble, but AP isn't going to be THAT much better then it currently is, its just going to be more in line with Pyro.

[Agooz]

People are getting to excited.

 

AP is still heavily reliant on melee range opposed to Pyrotech.

Pyro may lack mobility compared to AP, but compensates that by having a much larger array of useful dps abilities to use at range.

 

Indenciary Missile, Rail Shot, Thermal Detonator

Rapid Fire and Unload gain a 9% damage boost as Pyro

10m Flame Bursts.

 

AP is going to be great for harrasing opponents and keeping healers busy.

Hydraulic Overrides will make you a good ball carrier in Huttball over bridges, but doesn't really compare to charge and intercede, Force Speed, etc.

 

Not trying to burst anyones bubble, but AP isn't going to be THAT much better then it currently is, its just going to be more in line with Pyro.

 

This ^ ^ and with regards to Healers, as a Pyro I never had an issue with healers. We still have 4 ways to interrupt a healer (grapple, quell, carbon, dart). Used properly, we not only harass, but destroy a healer. Obviously that will change in 1.2, and while we may not be able to destroy them, we will certainly still be able to harass them enough to have them heal themselves full time.

[Hizoka]

People are getting to excited.

 

AP is still heavily reliant on melee range opposed to Pyrotech.

Pyro may lack mobility compared to AP, but compensates that by having a much larger array of useful dps abilities to use at range.

 

Indenciary Missile, Rail Shot, Thermal Detonator

Rapid Fire and Unload gain a 9% damage boost as Pyro

10m Flame Bursts.

 

AP is going to be great for harrasing opponents and keeping healers busy.

Hydraulic Overrides will make you a good ball carrier in Huttball over bridges, but doesn't really compare to charge and intercede, Force Speed, etc.

 

Not trying to burst anyones bubble, but AP isn't going to be THAT much better then it currently is, its just going to be more in line with Pyro.

 

i think its funny people are so scared of melee. There are classes in game that have NO skills that can be used at ranged yet they do just fine.

[Assaultrooper]

i think its funny people are so scared of melee. There is a spec in game that have NO skills that can be used at ranged yet they do just fine.

 

There fixed that for you

Edited March 24, 2012 by Assaultrooper

[Agooz]

i think its funny people are so scared of melee. There are classes in game that have NO skills that can be used at ranged yet they do just fine.

 

Are you dumb or just an instigator. Juggs, Marauders, and assassins dont do "just fine", they do insanely fine. Do you take a minute to think about what you say before you embarrass yourself like a *******? Do you live in a world where snipers rule the WZs?

Edited March 24, 2012 by Agooz

[Blurps]

I'd be more excited if with all the setup required I could actually trust Pulse Cannon to hit someone standing right in front of me.

 

With the Empire melee train really taking off by now standing there heating up the air only is just not a good idea.

[Hizoka]

Are you dumb or just an instigator. Juggs, Marauders, and assassins dont do "just fine", they do insanely fine. Do you take a minute to think about what you say before you embarrass yourself like a *******? Do you live in a world where snipers rule the WZs?

 

no people are sayign AP is bad because you have to be in melee, thats what "lacking ranged" means.

 

maybe you should read before proving are inept you are

Edited March 24, 2012 by Hizoka

[Agooz]

no people are sayign AP is bad because you have to be in melee, thats what "lacking ranged" means.

 

So Retractable Blade and Flame Thrower the 2 things actually getting a buff in AP and basically giving the tree the snare it needed is not considered melee to you?

I wouldnt say it's what making AP bad, but it certain a lot more melee range dependent than Pyro.

 

maybe you should read before proving are inept you are

 

Well at least I try to proof read before I rush to insult someone about being inept.