Hidden AP buff to flamethrower on PTS

[Shredzz]

http://imgur.com/0Snzx

 

They buffed flamethrower for pvp, immolate now adds a stack as well as flame burst/flame sweep, also when you have any stacks up(1-5) makes it uninteruptable, at 5stacks it applies a slow for the duration.

[Theology]

While a little more appealing, it's still unpractical for pvp. Especially with the amount of CC/AoE CC in this game, as un-interruptable =/= having the channel stop due to CCs. Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology

[Shredzz]

well main good thing is immolate added to what procs it, makes it perfect for a pve rotation.

 

Immolate->RP->RB->RS->FB->FB->FB->FB->Flamethrower in a 15sec rotation

[Theology]

Yah, definitely more viable for pve atleast. Good call.

[Theology]

Have you had experience testing the new PPA proc? How bad is your heat management now?

[Shredzz]

I made a lvl 10 so i don't know but flame burst will have 45% chance to reset with rocket punch 60% chance (3/3)

 

Shield tech changes

 

Empowered tech tier 6 - 6% shield chance (3/3)

 

Ablative upgrades 4% absorb(-2%) + kolto overload less cd (2/2)

 

Heat screen*NEW* tier 6 - Flame burst and heat blast give 2% more shield absorb for 15secs. Stacks 4times. (2/2)

 

All in all for tanking -4% shield chance -2%absorb + 8% shield absorb

Edited March 19, 2012 by Shredzz

[Theology]

Seems like the tank tree is a wash.

 

Thanks for the insight and heads up bro. Really appreciate that man.

[Shredzz]

No problem - pyro will still be viable though i think they want to urge people away from it with having more utility in AP in pvp.

 

I want to see the new hydraullic override animation

[Theology]

Pyro will still be viable as long as they readjust the cooldown or rework PPA in a way that wont destroy our heat management.

[Mc_Gregor]

Actually -4% shield chance with +6% shield absorption is pretty awesome and Im looking forward to seeing that change! Currently Im over 52% shield chance but am struggling to go past 40% absorption. With these changes Im going to sit at 48 shield / 46% absorption. Thats a huge boost at least with my current itemisation (and actually overall game itemisation which makes absorption quite scarce and a very sough-after stat for PT tanks).

[IlynPayne]

wow, the flamethrower change sounds amazing. exactly what this talent needed.

[exphryl]

Yeah. AP looks like it's slowly shaping up to be worthwhile.

 

Granted in PvP the few times I spec'd AP it wasn't difficult to get off, but having the snares overall make the class a lot more manageable.

 

Hmph. Might have to respec to AP now to just get more of a feel of the spec as a just in case.

 

Did they do anything to immolate as a whole? All in all I feel the talent is sub par and just is mediocre damage used to help get Procs on other abilities =/

Edited March 19, 2012 by exphryl

[Varicite]

While a little more appealing, it's still unpractical for pvp. Especially with the amount of CC/AoE CC in this game, as un-interruptable =/= having the channel stop due to CCs.

 

It's definitely a lot closer to viable now, w/ RB snare, FT snare/damage, and the utility it already provided.

 

Not being able to use FT at all outside of a stun or braindead opponents killed any chance of AP putting out comparable damage to Pyro in PvP.

 

It's still not the "burst" of a good Rail Shot crit (it will do about 5-6k w/ 5 stacks over the duration of the channel), and people can still kind of hobble away from it, but the slow will help.

 

I'm curious, how powerful is the FT snare? It would have to be along the lines of 50-70% to work as intended, imo.

 

Also, to Exphryl, Immo is decent damage (Elemental, so not mitigated like TD, half the heat cost of TD, and boosted further by the fire damage talents) w/ the surge talent associated, and I'm gong to straight up say that AP's surge talent is awesome because it buffs Flame Burst also. It's not going to crit for 5k, but it did crit for around 3k~ when I had terrible gear (Cent level, iirc).

 

It's a solid talent for damage, and the animation is the sexiest thing that BHs have, imo.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Varicite

[Mapex]

I'm glad they incorporated an AOE slow to Flame Thrower (as well as the RB ticks proccing CG), both of which I suggested in my AP improvements thread below. But what really owns is that uninterruptible aspect - I can now take Unload off my bar, previously used to waste an opponent's interrupt, almost entirely!

 

It seems they are fixing up all melee channels across the board with this patch. Master Strike/Ravage became uninterruptible baseline and now this.

 

Still, 5 stack Flame Thrower is annoying to build up. Immolate helping with 1 stack, while nice, may still not be enough.

 

Imm (8) -> RB (16) -> RP (0) -> RS (16) -> FBx4 (64) -> FT (25) = 129 Heat is already tough as it is, even if you factor in 24 Heat vent via HEGC and ~70 Heat via passive venting at 5/sec (assuming you don't go past 40 Heat at any time, which will happen during the FB spam).

 

I still advocate dropping Prototype Flame Thrower max stacks to 3 or 4 since it's usually a DPS loss to have to wait for that 5 stack (and Immolate alone isn't going to help).

Edited March 19, 2012 by Mapex

[exphryl]

It's a solid talent for damage, and the animation is the sexiest thing that BHs have, imo.

 

Agreed, best looking ability out there.

 

When I first got to 50 many moons ago I could've sworn it was an AOE attack, a bit disappointed when I found out it wasn't since the animation is so huge. Heh.

Edited March 19, 2012 by exphryl

[Rotm]

Adding Rocket Punch or RB to flame thrower charges would be an ideal change, since its shorter/no cooldown cuts down on the FB spam. Flame Thrower is balanced by its long cooldown so I dont see why want it to require filler attacks to specifically service it.

[Sevvy]

I still advocate dropping Prototype Flame Thrower max stacks to 3 or 4 since it's usually a DPS loss to have to wait for that 5 stack (and Immolate alone isn't going to help).

 

Yeah, while this build definitely became intriguing, 5 stacks is a lot. It takes way too many GCDs to make your Flamethrower good.

 

Perhaps Immolate should give 2 stacks. Or maybe crits from either Flame Burst or Immolate would give 2 stacks instead of 1. We all know how much Bioware loves RNG...

[Varicite]

So I did a little bit of thinking, and came up w/ this little build.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301ZMsMrorfkzcZbIbbz.1

 

It probably won't work, but it basically trades AP's Immolate for Pyro's Incendiary Missile to open up slight long-range damage capability when necessary.

 

It obviously will not be anywhere even comparable to Pyro's TD/RS combo (especially since it loses out on 30% crit damage), but still hits relatively hard w/ Puncture/Superheated Rail. Throw Explosive Dart in the mix, followed by an Unload and then Rapid Shots to close the distance. Best of all, because IM is considered a "burning" effect, you will still vent 8 heat on each Rail Shot (auto-crit also), bringing its overall heat cost to 8.

 

I think it might work, honestly. It gives up TD and 1 Rail Shot per rotation in exchange for the new buffed Flamethrower and AP's heavy utility. It's actually squishier than Pyro, because of no Energy Rebounder or Stabilized Armor.

 

I did not take the 15% run speed bonus, because Hydraulic Overrides makes it completely moot, and also because this version of AP actually has a long-range damage option if necessary.

 

I'm gonna try it when things hit live, if the Pyro changes aren't tweaked a bit.

 

If it does work, however, remember.. YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! : P

Edited March 19, 2012 by Varicite

[Blurps]

I still advocate dropping Prototype Flame Thrower max stacks to 3 or 4 since it's usually a DPS loss to have to wait for that 5 stack (and Immolate alone isn't going to help).

 

Or just increase the time window from the current 6 ( ? ) seconds to the 15 seconds many other procs have. That should happen anyway tbh.

[Theology]

This small buff to flamethrower, speaking in the case of PVP atleast, is a step in the right direction, but the tree is still clunky and needs alot of work/love.

[Varicite]

This small buff to flamethrower, speaking in the case of PVP atleast, is a step in the right direction, but the tree is still clunky and needs alot of work/love.

 

I'm actually excited to try the build I posted above; it might actually work, in theory.

 

Sure would be nice if I could copy over to the PTS.... :c

[Mapex]

Or just increase the time window from the current 6 ( ? ) seconds to the 15 seconds many other procs have. That should happen anyway tbh.

 

DPS = damage/second. Having a greater window to get that 5th stack won't do anything as far as allowing us to grab 5 stacks of Flame Thrower sooner to maximize DPS. In the time it takes to get 5 stacks to unleah a full Flame Thrower you could have cast 2 2-3 stack Flame Throwers for higher DPS. This means you will never be able to exploit the slow. I've been complaining about this since the beta phase in July.

 

Adding Rocket Punch or RB to flame thrower charges would be an ideal change, since its shorter/no cooldown cuts down on the FB spam. Flame Thrower is balanced by its long cooldown so I dont see why want it to require filler attacks to specifically service it.

 

Yeah, while this build definitely became intriguing, 5 stacks is a lot. It takes way too many GCDs to make your Flamethrower good.

 

Perhaps Immolate should give 2 stacks. Or maybe crits from either Flame Burst or Immolate would give 2 stacks instead of 1. We all know how much Bioware loves RNG...

 

I hate talents that entice you to spam abilities so I think a combination of your suggestions would make sense:

 

Immolate and Rocket Punch grant 1/2 stacks and Flame Burst has a 50/100% chance to grant 1 stack of Prototype Flame Thrower.

 

This solves two problems:

1) Difficulty in getting 5 stacks efficiently

2) Crappiness of rank 1 of the talent during level up (I point this out in my AP thread in my signature)

[Xsorus]

AP lacks the ability to pop burst like Pyro does, but it has really good sustained dps..I'm actually like the flamethrower change, as of right now, when i play AP, I only use the ability after stunning.. now it will be far more usable.

[Varicite]

DPS = damage/second. Having a greater window to get that 5th stack won't do anything as far as allowing us to grab 5 stacks of Flame Thrower sooner to maximize DPS. In the time it takes to get 5 stacks to unleah a full Flame Thrower you could have cast 2 2-3 stack Flame Throwers for higher DPS. This means you will never be able to exploit the slow. I've been complaining about this since the beta phase in July.

 

 

 

 

 

I hate talents that entice you to spam abilities so I think a combination of your suggestions would make sense:

 

Immolate and Rocket Punch grant 1/2 stacks and Flame Burst has a 50/100% chance to grant 1 stack of Prototype Flame Thrower.

 

This solves two problems:

1) Difficulty in getting 5 stacks efficiently

2) Crappiness of rank 1 of the talent during level up (I point this out in my AP thread in my signature)

 

I honestly think they should just lower the stack limit to 3. Same w/ Heat Signatures for Arsenal.

[Theology]

AP lacks the ability to pop burst like Pyro does, but it has really good sustained dps..I'm actually like the flamethrower change, as of right now, when i play AP, I only use the ability after stunning.. now it will be far more usable.

 

Reduced mobility, if anything. If you're being forced to stun someone just to flamethrower them, thats one less stun to help the team, peel from a healer, kill a pesky kiting sorc.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology