Avoiding Disaster

[Arrogus]

In almost every MMO I've ever played, the most depressing nerfs were always a result of PVP balancing. I hate PVP, and have never enjoyed it, which makes seeing my beloved character gutted because of it all the more infuriating.

 

Thus, I propose that we avoid conflicts between PVP and PVE balance by having two completely separate skill trees, one for each role.

 

PVE and PVP are so different that you already have to use completely different tactics for them, why not have different talents as well? I honestly can think of no down side to this.

 

What say you?

[FarizAA]

Me say not.

[Arrogus]

That's it? Just "no"? No reasons why?

 

Seriously, think how great it would be to segregate PVP and PVE, it would be so much easier to balance classes, much less QQing about "this class is OP."

 

Plus it would be a chance to rework some of the more deeply flawed skill trees (ie. Lightning).

 

Can anyone think of an actual reason not to do this?

[ShadowOfVey]

I'd be fine with it if they were willing to put in the work to do it right.

 

I don't trust anyone to do it right though, not just bioware but any company currently producing games.

[Arlanon]

I've got a great idea. We can have talents within the existing trees that you can choose to pick or pass, depending on if you are PvE or PvP minded.

 

Then we can have separate PvE and PvP gear as well. The PvE gear will have superior stats, the PvP gear will trade some of those stats for a PvP stat. We'll call it Expertise.

 

OH, SNAP...

[Darthshnooky]

I've got a great idea. We can have talents within the existing trees that you can choose to pick or pass, depending on if you are PvE or PvP minded.

 

Then we can have separate PvE and PvP gear as well. The PvE gear will have superior stats, the PvP gear will trade some of those stats for a PvP stat. We'll call it Expertise.

 

OH, SNAP...

 

Except base skills and abilities as well as those that are useful in both PvE and PvP get nerfed due to issues in PvP.

 

Oh, snap...

[Viscerus]

The game SHOULD be designed around PvP balance FIRST and then PvE.

 

You could use a bolster in PvE to increase everyone's power for raids.

 

Then you coudl also avoid needing 2 different gear sets and make rewards for PvP and PvE the same.

[Arrogus]

The game SHOULD be designed around PvP balance FIRST and then PvE.

That really leaves out those of us who hate PVP. My solution lets you balance them separately, so both sides are happy.

You could use a bolster in PvE to increase everyone's power for raids.

That's basically the same as making PVE enemies weaker, it doesn't correct issues of class balance in PVE, it just makes everyone OP to different degrees.

Then you coudl also avoid needing 2 different gear sets and make rewards for PvP and PvE the same.

I actually wouldn't mind equivalent gear for PVP and PVE, stats are quite a bit easier to balance than abilities and talents.

[Arlanon]

So you want them to change the game in ludicrous and unfeasible ways, in order to accomodate you.

 

My take? No.

[braONEntax]

So you want them to change the game in ludicrous and unfeasible ways, in order to accomodate you.

 

My take? No.

 

Has it right. The nerfs are for PvE aspects of the game. I play a sage and dislike the changes but it is needed. In those PvE raids allows Ops and Commando's a better chance to keep up with the sage healing in raids.

[ilovethepink]

I personally dislike PvE, I don't know why anyone would want to do the same encounter time, after time, after time, after time with no discrepancy in the fight's mechanics from one kill to the next.

 

Why would you ever want to balance the game around something so dull? Perhaps if you were fighting AI that changed what it does based on your Ops Comp, what moves you do and so on... maybe but then you'd be doing PvP... against a Computer.

 

Forcing people into 1 spec is a bad idea, for example:

 

Person A may hate Spec 1

Person B may love Spec 1

They're now both being forced into spec'ing Spec 1

Person A rerolls/quits

-Rinse and repeat for all 8 ACs-

 

In all fairness, what they need to do is make every ability hit different in PvP and PvE, and have the co-efficients only take affect against players, otherwise you'll hit for full against your mindless scripted encounters.

[celebrei]

Original poster suggestion was OK however I doubt bioware would do this coz of the amount of time and effort needed to program and implement it

[denpic]

It go's both ways plenty of nerfs have been introduced

By competition between classes and roles performing better in pve

[Arlanon]

In all fairness, what they need to do is make every ability hit different in PvP and PvE, and have the co-efficients only take affect against players, otherwise you'll hit for full against your mindless scripted encounters.

 

Expertise addresses that.

 

It's getting tweaked in 1.2 btw.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Arlanon

[Viscerus]

That really leaves out those of us who hate PVP. My solution lets you balance them separately, so both sides are happy.

 

That's basically the same as making PVE enemies weaker, it doesn't correct issues of class balance in PVE, it just makes everyone OP to different degrees.

 

I actually wouldn't mind equivalent gear for PVP and PVE, stats are quite a bit easier to balance than abilities and talents.

 

You clearly don't understand how this would work.

 

It does nothign to impact people who don't like PvP, other then letting them jump in if they want. It maintains balance better.

[Agooz]

In almost every MMO I've ever played, the most depressing nerfs were always a result of PVP balancing. I hate PVP, and have never enjoyed it, which makes seeing my beloved character gutted because of it all the more infuriating.

 

Thus, I propose that we avoid conflicts between PVP and PVE balance by having two completely separate skill trees, one for each role.

 

PVE and PVP are so different that you already have to use completely different tactics for them, why not have different talents as well? I honestly can think of no down side to this.

 

What say you?

 

Actually that is a very good idea. The PvP tree talents could have a requirement where said talent only works in WZs, or offensive talents can only work on player targets or their Companions.

[Arrogus]

I may have been a bit unclear in my OP, I am proposing that there are two separate skill trees, one for PVP, and the other for PVE, both of which a player fills just like the current tree, and both of which can be switched between voluntarily at any time.

[Arlanon]

So basically your class, will morph into an entirely different class, when you go into PvP?

 

If you're not happy with how your class performs in PvP... roll another class.

 

Nah, that's too easy. Bioware needs to do you some service.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Arlanon

[Arrogus]

You clearly don't understand how this would work.

 

It does nothign to impact people who don't like PvP, other then letting them jump in if they want. It maintains balance better.

 

It maintains PVP balance better, but some PVE balance must be sacrificed in order to do that, which screws over those of us who could care less about PVP.

[Rogoo]

What say you?

 

I say that PvE takes absolutely no skill whatsover. You just grind mindless mobs, use your interrupts and that's it.

 

Skills should be balanced around PvP since a 6 year old can play PvE in most MMO's.

[alderdale]

It seems so positively easy, just have abilities perform differently on players verses non players. On non player (NPC), ability x hits for y on player, ability x hits for z. How freaking hard is that?

 

They already do that on some abilities, conconsion missle lasts 60 seconds on mobs and 8 secs on players, so they can do it for any abilities they want to balance for PvP.

[Arlanon]

It seems so positively easy, just have abilities perform differently on players verses non players. On non player (NPC), ability x hits for y on player, ability x hits for z. How freaking hard is that?

 

They already do this on players with Expertise too.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Arlanon

[Arrogus]

So basically your class, will morph into an entirely different class, when you go into PvP?

 

If you're not happy with how your class performs in PvP... roll another class.

 

Nah, that's too easy. Bioware needs to do you some service.

 

Ah, a post with substance.

 

I wouldn't say "completely different class", the flavor and overall role would remain the same, but the execution would be optimized for the combat type.

 

Also, "roll another class" is a non-solution. If Bioware nerfed a class into complete unplayability, would you tell the people who used to love that class to quite whining and reroll? Some of us play a class because we like its flavor.

[Arlanon]

Roll another class is indeed a solution. You have 8 toon slots, do something with them.

[Arrogus]

I say that PvE takes absolutely no skill whatsover. You just grind mindless mobs, use your interrupts and that's it.

 

Skills should be balanced around PvP since a 6 year old can play PvE in most MMO's.

 

Your post basically boils down to "screw you PVEers", so back at you.