All good Pvp'ers are ###ed.

[DarthOvertone]

Oh...someone complaining about gear again. I thought this thread was going to be about PvP. My mistake.

 

Moving along...

[DarthLightSide]

It's all about legacy....no one wants to do the current pvp grind 5+ times to build their legacy. The best way to get good at pvp is to actually have one of each class and play them yourself. That's the best way to know their strengths and weaknesses....therefore making you a stronger pvp'r.

 

gear based pvp is finally phasing out....hopefully other mmo's will follow. Good Job BW!!!!!

[Varicite]

It's all about legacy....no one wants to do the current pvp grind 5+ times to build their legacy. The best way to get good at pvp is to actually have one of each class and play them yourself. That's the best way to know their strengths and weaknesses....therefore making you a stronger pvp'r.

 

gear based pvp is finally phasing out....hopefully other mmo's will follow. Good Job BW!!!!!

 

I'm actually working on getting one of most classes (the ones I have the most trouble w/ first) to 50.

 

It's been incredibly helpful in PvP to know the mechanics firsthand behind most classes I face.

[SneakyErvin]

It's expertise that is unbalanced, when 2 dps have equal gear they have the same dmg and reduction whereas a healer gets a bolster to healing as well and makes the stat favor healers moreso.

 

Honestly no. You are wrong on this.

 

You dont look at the big picture. Healers are still fighting against a healing reduction caused by fighting in PvP.

 

So with the high expertise they are still behind by roughly 18% if I remember right. PvP healing reduction is 30% if I'm not fumbling completely in the dark, so with 12% exp its still a 18% healing reduction for them.

 

So its fair they get the healing bonus from expertise.

Edited March 21, 2012 by SneakyErvin

[Ulltramagns]

On the PTS , you can buy any BM item for 1000 warzone commendations without any valor rank , basicly new lvl 50s will have full BM set in 1st day, cause they can buy it in easy 10-49 bracket

 

Seriously???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

I feel myself used, because i have 2 toons wich are lvls 67-68 valor and i diD A LOT , and spend a lot of time to do it, and in 1.2 you will be able to be full BM in 1 day

 

 

GG bioware

 

I read your title saying that all good pvpers are ###ed, but then I read your post and noticed you complaining about how easy it will be for people to get gear.

 

I think anyone should be able to realize that a good pvper, just wont give a flying **** about people getting gear.

[liqwid]

On the PTS , you can buy any BM item for 1000 warzone commendations without any valor rank , basicly new lvl 50s will have full BM set in 1st day, cause they can buy it in easy 10-49 bracket

 

Seriously???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

I feel myself used, because i have 2 toons wich are lvls 67-68 valor and i diD A LOT , and spend a lot of time to do it, and in 1.2 you will be able to be full BM in 1 day

 

 

GG bioware

 

By good do you mean you farm'd lvl 10-49's to get your BM gear at launch?

[SneakyErvin]

@People bringing up WoW: Stop saying this game has less content than WoW. It has more than what WoW had at release, alot lot more. It has as much or more than what WoW had at the start of each expansion, in which old content turned obsolete. It has as much content a new game needs. And they are adding to it. Way more rapidly than blizzard and more bug free.

 

Hardmodes = Heroics, which WoW didnt have in vanilla, it barely had level 60 dungeons)

Operations = Raids. 2 here, 2 in woW at release and around 2 at the start of each x-pack

WZs = BGs, which WoW had zero at release and barely gave more after the first few

Dailies = Dailies, which WoW barely or did even have in vanilla.

 

Stat distribution is much better here than it was in vanilla WoW, spirit, int, agi and some str on the same gear. Yay!

PvP Balance is also much better here, since its non-exsistant in WoW pretty much.

Classes are also pretty well worked, no major flaws like WoW had. Yes WoW improved it as time went by but so will ToR. No game is 100% pefect at release, but this is pretty damn close.

[Humankeg]

"All good PvPers"

 

Speak for yourself.

 

Valor 72, full battlemaster "the hard way" and I welcome the changes. Player vs player should be just that .. not player vs gear.

 

Good PvP players will love the even playing field to really shine, bad PvPer's will be show up to be gear whoring muppets.

 

I hate gear grinds in PvP, heck I'm not found of gear grinds in PvE either. Cosmetic *looks cool* stuff should be the rewards for rank / progression. Not stat points. IMO.

 

Uh... no. If we followed your model, we would all still be wearing level 1 white gear, with no stats on it, as long as it "looks cool".

 

MMO's are about gear progression. With out gear progression the sub base will die.

[Enkenon]

On the PTS , you can buy any BM item for 1000 warzone commendations without any valor rank , basicly new lvl 50s will have full BM set in 1st day, cause they can buy it in easy 10-49 bracket

 

Seriously???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

I feel myself used, because i have 2 toons wich are lvls 67-68 valor and i diD A LOT , and spend a lot of time to do it, and in 1.2 you will be able to be full BM in 1 day

 

 

GG bioware

 

 

You did grind a lot to get your gear but grinding should not be a part of any game that

has the ambition to be fun.

1st of all Bm gear is slightly better than Champ gear and it cannot make a difference for a bad player.

And that is a good thing.

PvP is all about the fight not the gear.

For the most advanced players that want to grind there is new set of gear inc.

Taking out the valor requirement will ease the situation and make things better for lower ranks and it will address the problem of people getting to rank 50 and going into Wz

to be farmed just because of gear.

[RealAeiouy]

Uh... no. If we followed your model, we would all still be wearing level 1 white gear, with no stats on it, as long as it "looks cool".

 

MMO's are about gear progression. With out gear progression the sub base will die.

 

This your first mmog foray into pvp? I can assure you that pvp and pve have developed into different entities throughout the history of mmog. Good mmog is based around fostering challenging and competive gameplay versus other players. You still are able to progress levels and abilities and at end game you can continue to progress for more gear, items, titles etc.

 

What a vast amount of experienced pvp players have come to agree upon is that persistant stat progression inhibits quality endgame pvp. This is not a conclusion reached lightly but one born out by a huge number of pvp players for well over a decade.

 

I realize newer pvpers who have primarily pved think that gear progression makes total sense. On paper it is not a bad idea but in practice it is counterproductive to good pvp. There is nothing fundamental in mmogs about gear progression, especially stat based progression.

 

Again this is not a position arrived at casually. Many of us played games for years with star based endgame progression for pvp. Even worse years playing where the only gear came from pve. We have experience with what you want and we are telling you it does not make for good or enjoyable pvp. One thing people really get twisted is the longevity factor. People primarily pve to get gear, so when the gear runs out they quit. In pvp people primarily pvp to wage competive battles against other players. The gameplay doesn't really start until you cap out gear. In pvp everything before getting fully geared is just a warm up. Being fully geared is when the real fun starts.

[AbovetheRest]

All good pvpers welcome these changes. Maybe instead of good we should say "skilled"

 

Anyone with any skill couldn't give a crap if anyone else has equivalent gear. All it means is now you have no excuse when I wipe the floor with you but to admit that I outperformed you.

[vollkel]

You did grind a lot to get your gear but grinding should not be a part of any game that has the ambition to be fun.

 

grinding? you mean doing stuff again and again and again like dailies?

 

if this is to be a MMORPG, then the character should have some work to do! if he has to work, he should get paid and if that money gets dumped - he should be allowed to moan! its not hard to understand, if you want to understand.

 

as for the upcoming changes:

 

i shall not join a ranked WZ without a full premade and if you want to stand a chance, you better find some tough guys to team up with or cry in the forums for help/change - for we are going to slaughter Pug's and semi-premades alike without hesitation!

[KEKHAN]

I would have liked them to keep Valor requirments and have different sets of armor rather than enhanced abilities. Then there is progression without advantages other than cosmetic.

 

I have Battlemaster rank since before the last patch btw and about 3 pieces. I only play around 2 hours a day mostly, so I havn't done heavy grinding. I dont know what the fuss about that is.

 

I'm more annoyed there are going to be loads of people running around in the same armor as me more than the advantages, though I can understand the OP's dissapointment.

Edited March 21, 2012 by KEKHAN

[shadowfoxe]

"All good PvPers"

 

Speak for yourself.

 

Valor 72, full battlemaster "the hard way" and I welcome the changes. Player vs player should be just that .. not player vs gear.

 

Good PvP players will love the even playing field to really shine, bad PvPer's will be show up to be gear whoring muppets.

 

I hate gear grinds in PvP, heck I'm not found of gear grinds in PvE either. Cosmetic *looks cool* stuff should be the rewards for rank / progression. Not stat points. IMO.

 

exactly

[Elrathion]

This would be fun if all classes were actually equally able to win a 1v1 equal gear and skill. But sadly that is not the case today.

[Darth_Acherus]

Yeah im glad they got rid of that bullsh*t rank requirement so the TRUE good pvper Will mop the floor with the little kids who thought they were better because they grinded Some gear.

 

This statement is such a joke, if you are good the gear makes little difference.

[Malvantyr]

I play this game because I enjoy the pvp. I genuinely find it fun.

 

I do not play to roll people with worse gear than me. I look forward to this change,

 

 

I have full BM gear, with rakata and matrix cube, and I still don't care if they get the same.

[Algeroth]

Uhm... I have two toons with BM gear and I don't see any "good pvper" in it since it's all RNG...

[WaywardOne]

<< This statement is such a joke, if you are good the gear makes little difference. >>

 

Wrong. I have a guardian with mostly BM gear and I have a level 50 sentinel with a few champion pieces. I do much better on my guardian, even in 1v1, at the moment. My sentinel kicked tail right up until 50, but then - boom - gear became an issue and now he's lucky if he's in the top 50% damage when some of the good teams are running around (my guardian is almost always in the top 10-20% damage no matter who's playing). I'm not compaining about that but I do feel like I'm dragging my team down with my fresh 50 and there's not much I can do about it other than keep dragging them for a couple weeks. Being given the option to buy and save decent gear for when I hit 50 on an alt is something that sounds good to me (you could do the same thing in Wow when I played that).

[ShadowOfVey]

This would be fun if all classes were actually equally able to win a 1v1 equal gear and skill. But sadly that is not the case today.

 

I've played a lot of MMOs and I can't think of one where this is/was the case.

[KhalDrogoe]

I'm going to be honest. Gear right now isn't a problem. If you PvP, you're going to get geared.

 

What I don't want to see happen, is everyone run up an alt for each new FOTM build. If you're going to make gear free, might as well make lvl 50 free for pvp too! If you want an absolute level playing field, don't limit me because I don't want to level up the new FOTM.

 

I'm someone who HATES leveling characters. In every game I've ever played I only have 1 character, because the grinding to hit max is boring and tedious.

 

In Star Wars Galaxies, you were only allowed 1 character per realm. People played the heck out of their character. I developed a big sense of community because I intereacted with the same players and same characters on a daily basis.

 

Even right now, in warzones people KNOW me. They know the skill associated with my character, and they know they're going to have one heck of a time if they're against me.

 

Giving free gear to people that have the time to level up an alt is unfair to those of us who don't. People that say that gear shouldn't be a time sink is absolutely wrong, because free gear = players switching to FOTM builds, which if you're competitive and you DON'T have all the alts, you'll get passed up for someone that DOES have the time to level up all the characters.

 

Now if you make gear a time sink/have a set requirement (req valor rank 70), you'll see a variety of builds, because people will have loyalty to their characters and they're not leveling up every class in the game, so that they're able to run the FOTM builds.

 

So right now, as the patch notes are, people who have the time to level up every class in the game will be able to get into competitive rateds, be giving people in solo queue of rateds a disadvantage because they're continuing to create toons and doing solo queues to gear up all their alts.

 

NOW, that you can outfit you toon in Full BM without even hitting 50... This opens a whole new can of worms!

 

Raiders will now expect you to be at least full BM if you want to start raiding. True it's not as good as say.. Rakata, but better than the first 2 PvE sets. So now we'll get the flood of PvE'ers wanting to up their gearscore so they can get invited to the better raids. They'll do this by doing PvP instead of the normal progression of PvE gear....

 

As a PvP'er this is terrible! My new competitive bracket of equally geared people is being tainted by the unkilled PvE'ers wanting welfare epics to start raiding with!

 

Now instead of having a team of people who WANT to PvP for the sake of PvP, I'm getting stuck on a team of PvE'ers that have no clue or desire to do well because they're just here for the welfare epics!

[Bewzled]

<< This statement is such a joke, if you are good the gear makes little difference. >>

 

Wrong. I have a guardian with mostly BM gear and I have a level 50 sentinel with a few champion pieces. I do much better on my guardian, even in 1v1, at the moment. My sentinel kicked tail right up until 50, but then - boom - gear became an issue and now he's lucky if he's in the top 50% damage when some of the good teams are running around (my guardian is almost always in the top 10-20% damage no matter who's playing). I'm not compaining about that but I do feel like I'm dragging my team down with my fresh 50 and there's not much I can do about it other than keep dragging them for a couple weeks. Being given the option to buy and save decent gear for when I hit 50 on an alt is something that sounds good to me (you could do the same thing in Wow when I played that).

 

At a certain point gear can become game-changing, but this point is say if you were wearing level 45 greens and blues versus full champ/bmaster.

 

However, the gear performance between centurion/tionese --> all the way up to rakata/BMaster is small. It is practically NON-EXISTANT when comparing Champ to BM.

 

Correlation does not equal causation. You are clearly BETTER on your guardian most likely because you have alot more experience with it. Your sentinel may have womped on bads in the 10-49 bracket, but theres actually people who know how to play and have access to all of their tools at level 50. Your sentinel is underperforming because YOU are underperforming, not your gear. I know how this is because I consistently destroy on my BH (600k~ every game) and play fairly poor on my alts.

[Scav]

LOL, OP. True pvpers are waiting for the next game w/out gear or RNG. MWO coming soon, till then, GW2 will do.

[Bewzled]

LOL, OP. True pvpers are waiting for the next game w/out gear or RNG. MWO coming soon, till then, GW2 will do.

 

This is true. I'm really hoping that GW2 turns out as great as it looks right now.

[Serpenttt]

Not that it happens very often for republic on my server, but I feel pretty bad mopping the floor with fresh 50 imps in bad gear. Positive update I think, now we just need to get some open PvP going, I miss 30v30+ ilum battles at center.