People don't give Georg the credit he deserves

[Bulbasaur]

As lead combat designer, Georg Zoeller has overseen and approved each and every change made to combat in the 1.2 patch, and all paches leading up to it. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, this game has been impeccibly balanced when it comes to combat (i know there have been gripes about mirrors having issues, but they will eventually be resolved). The point being, no class completely obliterates any other class when both players have equal knowledge about their own class, and how to counter abilities other classes are bringing to the table.

 

What have we seen in the 1.2 patch notes regarding classes themselves?

 

Dramatic changes to healing

Certain specs getting damage reductions, while others gain more

Reoptimization to skill trees to entice players to pick and fulfill a single role

 

Now look at the big picture - what is happening to the rest of the game?

 

All item slots have an augment potential (can result in 28x14 more to your base stat overall)

Recalculations on stats themselves including the diminishing returns on expertice (further raising damage and healing done to other players)

New tiers of gear bringing much higher stats than were previously attainable even by the best optimizations

 

 

Now stop and think, if all of these new things were added on top of the current PvP system, people would be hitting and healing for unbelievably high damage - teams that didnt stack 4 healers would be useless as fights would be very very short and lopsided.

 

The classes needed adjustments to incorporate this dramatic increase in potential gear. Your class will not be ruined. Post 1.2 after you gear up you should be seeing the same, if not (probably) more damage/healing on your part, regardless if your class got nerfed.

 

Give Georg the credit he is due, he hasn't fallen short of maintaining balance in combat before, and balance will continue to be maintaned (even moreso) post-1.2

 

Now stop the QQing and start thinking about how you can optimize your spec given the plethora of changes upcoming in the next few weeks.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Bulbasaur

[AdmiralBlue]

Look at you making intelligent comments. Your kind ain't welcome 'round these parts.

[Bulbasaur]

Look at you making intelligent comments. Your kind ain't welcome 'round these parts.

I'm honestly waiting to be called a witch and flung into a river lol

 

People are so upset that they have to think a little bit more cleverly to pursue success in pvp. I'm welcoming the challenge and look forward to crushing skulls in April

Edited March 18, 2012 by Bulbasaur

[Darth-Rammstein]

I think this game is extremely balanced and the fact that gear is easily obtained allows everyone to play on an even playing field. The same cannot be said for wow, classes are completely unbalanced and on top of that you need to be a ranked arena player to have the gear necessary to compete in even unranked bgs. Edited March 18, 2012 by Darth-Rammstein

[Ushela]

Id love to hear Georg's opinion on why nothing has been done regarding sin tanks wearing dps gear STILL! Id love to ask Georg if any other sin spec will ever be viable for pvp besides tanksin. So imo, Georg is not doing a very good job. And by what you have posted concerning new incoming gear being the reason for nerfs, MARS are going to be pwning people all day long, and night too! Edited March 18, 2012 by Ushela

[KiranK]

Who was it that massively over sold the Sith Inquisitor class, contributing largely to the obnoxious class AND faction imbalance in this game. Oh right, it was George Zoeller. I'll give him credit for screwing up the population balance. Credit where it's due.

[Lymain]

Georg is my hero, but you shouldn't need to completely rebalance your combat system for new gear

 

Personally, I think they're just redesigning all this stuff because they like it better this way, as if the game were still under NDA in beta. Conventional wisdom says that you should avoid nerfing anything in a live MMO unless it's absolutely necessary, since players are irrational and will get frustrated and quit no matter how well designed the changes may be overall. We'll see how it all plays out here.

[johnyangelo]

1) things can be changed till 1.2 reach live servers

 

2) in big picture - changed pvp math, expertise, etc etc... nerfs won't maybe hurt so much or at all

 

3) people are comparing all those changes to current state of game, but there are more changes "underneath", so ...

 

4) if he deserves credit only time will show.

[Bulbasaur]

Id love to hear Georg's opinion on why nothing has been done regarding sin tanks wearing dps gear STILL! Id love to ask Georg if any other sin spec will ever be viable for pvp besides tanksin. So imo, Georg is not doing a very good job. And by what you have posted concerning new incoming gear being the reason for nerfs, MARS are going to be pwning people all day long, and night too!

 

This may seem alarming, but as a battlemaster sentinel (watchman) i've been pwning people all day long, for a long time. The fact that the other two trees were buffed to give us a choice on playstyle is just a nice addition.

 

However, i will say that when i face people who know my abilities and how to effectivly counter them (as many snipers do) the facade wears off and all can see how fickle our glass cannon really is.

[clearsighted]

Georg gets about as much credit as he's due.

 

Mythic's Gabe (the Jonah Hill of the MMO industry), otoh, gets a tad bit too much credit.

Edited March 18, 2012 by clearsighted

[Zekiirah]

I'm more disgusted with how Georg presented himself in a Seer topic than anything else right now.

 

Your opinion is being made into fact by your wording. I respect your opinion, but I would appreciate it if you would respect the opinions of those who are on the other side of the fence. Most of us aren't upset because we must learn to "think a little bit more cleverly to pursue success in PvP." That's discounting our thoughts to create a more viable position on your part.

 

I recognize that there are more changes coming to the game, and I cannot fathom what effect they will have, and nor can you. But my initial response to the loss of Resplendence and 1.5 second casts for Deliverance is that it will be a major blow. I have spent my time explaining why I am of that opinion in several topics concerning these changes. Does that mean I'm right, Bulbasaur? No. Does it mean you must be right?

Edited March 18, 2012 by Zekiirah

[Bulbasaur]

I'm more disgusted with how Georg presented himself in a Seer topic than anything else right now.

 

Your opinion is being made into fact by your wording. I respect your opinion, but I would appreciate it if you would respect the opinions of those who are on the other side of the fence. Most of us aren't upset because we must learn to "think a little bit more cleverly to pursue success in PvP." That's discounting our thoughts to create a more viable position on your part.

 

I recognize there are more changes coming to the game, and I cannot fathom what effect they will have, and nor can you. But my initial response to the loss of Resplendence and 1.5 second casts for Deliverance is that it will be a major blow. I have spent my time explaining why I am of that opinion in several topics concerning these changes. Does that mean I'm right, Bulbasaur? No. Does it mean you must be right?

 

I understand the additional second to cast your big heal hurts... A lot. But when your big heal is going to heal for even more, a little trade off has to be given. When I said rethink your playstyle, thats exactly what you have to do. I can give a good example as I play the class in direct opposition to sorc healers, and the advice I can give is this:

 

Watch our animations and try to time your heals with our interrupts in mind. If I just interrupted you with my leap, that means I have another interrupt waiting to be used (my kick) so dont try to hit delivarence then. Toss in another casted heal to try and coax an interrupt from me, then hit deliverance when my 2 main interrupts are on cd. My stasis and awe might be off cd, but cc's are generally less reliabe as direct interrupts so you have a higher chance to be successful

 

Also you underestimate the unbelievable effect your cc has on us.

 

In short, time your heals against my interruptions (just as im timing my interruptions against your heals) i understand your overall gameplay and survivability have been shaken but it isnt gamebreaking by any means.

 

Edit: I forgot to add that my main role in warzones is focusing healers, whereas your main role isnt to outheal my dps, it is to immobilize me and keep your team up. Keep that in mind

Edited March 18, 2012 by Bulbasaur

[Amp_]

You're probably going to get flamed for this. Which is unfortunate since you are a grass type Pokemon.

[Bulbasaur]

You're probably going to get flamed for this. Which is unfortunate since you are a grass type Pokemon.

 

Responses actually haven't been too bad ^^

[VoidSidious]

@ Bulb comment: "I understand the additional second to cast your big heal hurts... A lot. But when your big heal is going to heal for even more, a little trade off has to be given."

 

You fail to mention dps will also be increasing. The gear and stat increases don't occur in a vacum only to be buffing healers, that DPS is going to be rocking harder so any increase in healing from gear or stat bonus will be null and void by the same in dps. The end result is still a nerf.

[farfulnugen]

Timing heals to a person's interrupts is fine and dandy when it's a 1 on 1 fight. In a rated WZ, not going to happen.

 

Personally, i find their resolve system too flawed which makes the consular healing changes even worse.

[Panzerfire]

Oh nice, we're having a sensible discussion !

 

I'm playing an assassin and think that the classes will be balanced in the next patch, why ? Yes, the new tier of gear coming with new modifications.

 

Some classes got nerfed (BH), sorcs and operatives, others had some buffs and some nerfs (snipers), some got buffed (marauders), haven't read too much juggernaught things so I assume no significant changes were made to them, and my class was left untouched.

 

There are a lot of aspects to class belance, besides mere tooltip damage and max crits.

 

I was afraid the next patch would bring problems for my class, why ? Other AC's having skills in their skill trees giving them percentage based bonusses (+% crit and most importantly +% main stat), marauder and assassin are the only AC's who don't have a skill giving them either 6 or 9% increase to their main stat.

 

Even before the patch, I can barely get around 1650-1700 willpower while other classes get 1900-2000 with same gear, and we're balanced somehow.

 

With the new tier of gear and augments there was and frankly still might be the risk of other AC's being too good with insane amounts of main stat since they get 106 or 109% of the bonus we get.

 

Anyway, what I want to say, even if assassins and marauders may seem OP right now for the next patch, things like what I just described help balance the AC's, and this is just one thing I've noticed, there may be (and I'm sure there are) many more underlying balancing mechanics in place.

 

We can only make definitive conclusions about class balance after a few weeks into the new patch when people should have their new gear tier with augments and have adapted to the new way they need to play their class.

 

I have personally talked to a lvl 50 BH - mercenary on the PTS who said that dps is perfectly fine for him, and healing is doable but you need to watch out for your heat, this is probably so BH healers are balanced with the new nerfed sorcs and the old operatives who are worse than both right now.

[Metalmac]

Who was it that massively over sold the Sith Inquisitor class, contributing largely to the obnoxious class AND faction imbalance in this game. Oh right, it was George Zoeller. I'll give him credit for screwing up the population balance. Credit where it's due.

 

Good point. What no come back guys?

[wtfnonamefree]

Id love to hear Georg's opinion on why nothing has been done regarding sin tanks wearing dps gear STILL! Id love to ask Georg if any other sin spec will ever be viable for pvp besides tanksin. So imo, Georg is not doing a very good job. And by what you have posted concerning new incoming gear being the reason for nerfs, MARS are going to be pwning people all day long, and night too!

 

Well, we haven't seen any changes to defstats in the notes either. I guess that we'll see this change a bit later accompanied by the dmg nerf of our spec - too soon to drop the bomb probably.

Edited March 18, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[Zekiirah]

I understand the additional second to cast your big heal hurts... A lot. But when your big heal is going to heal for even more, a little trade off has to be given. When I said rethink your playstyle, thats exactly what you have to do. I can give a good example as I play the class in direct opposition to sorc healers, and the advice I can give is this:

 

Watch our animations and try to time your heals with our interrupts in mind. If I just interrupted you with my leap, that means I have another interrupt waiting to be used (my kick) so dont try to hit delivarence then. Toss in another casted heal to try and coax an interrupt from me, then hit deliverance when my 2 main interrupts are on cd. My stasis and awe might be off cd, but cc's are generally less reliabe as direct interrupts so you have a higher chance to be successful

 

Also you underestimate the unbelievable effect your cc has on us.

 

In short, time your heals against my interruptions (just as im timing my interruptions against your heals) i understand your overall gameplay and survivability have been shaken but it isnt gamebreaking by any means.

 

Edit: I forgot to add that my main role in warzones is focusing healers, whereas your main role isnt to outheal my dps, it is to immobilize me and keep your team up. Keep that in mind

 

I don't mind rethinking my playstyle, and I welcome a challenge. Generally, I'm changing it to adapt to PvP and PvE situations already, every day. From my personal experience though... I'm already getting a challenge. My previous game had me healing 29 others (30 man raid was full, and it was full.. quite often.) My mindset is that I can't tell myself that another healer will do it, because what if they do not? For lack of better wording, I have a very "frantic" playstyle. I go in there knowing I'm going to keep as many people alive as possible. I'll get two ticks of Healing Trance on someone, cancel it, Rejuve the next player and hit Deliverance on them, Force Armor them and my next target, Healing Trance to full if they need it, continue, etc. I don't have a set rotation, I'm constantly adapting to keep as many in the vicinity alive as I can. I've never liked going easy on heals for someone just because they lack gear, and I never give up on someone if they have even a bit of life left.

 

Needless to say.. it's not a very good playstyle for conserving Force in the long run, but it prolongs the life of not only one, but several players. Without Resplendence, I don't know how well I can adapt. There is no way I want to be reduced to pocket healing. I already have a lot of difficulty finding the time to use my free NS when things get rough, because I am often the only healer in the Warzone.

 

As for your advice, I do appreciate it, and many have given me similar advice before. I attempt it and make it sometimes, but rarely can I pull it off successfully. The difficulty lies mainly in my inability to easily read or see the targets ability they are channeling or using. I'm blind as a bat (I wear contacts though, of course, can't be a blind healer..) and only recently figured out I could make my HP bars bigger I use my CCs, I Sprint to a place that has a LoS advantage for me, and again, it works sometimes.. rarely for long though. I dunno, really.

 

We DO have to think about Force management, and we DO have to think about healing. At least, I sure do =l I'm doing alright with Resplendence but without.. I shudder at the thought for now. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but this has worked for me so far, and Resplendence was a big part of that.

 

Thanks for hearing me out and giving a pleasant response, I hope I managed to do the same to you!

[face_hindu]

I just mailed Georg 100,000 well-deserved credits. I hope it's the right Georg.

[xHurogx]

1) things can be changed till 1.2 reach live servers

 

2) in big picture - changed pvp math, expertise, etc etc... nerfs won't maybe hurt so much or at all

 

3) people are comparing all those changes to current state of game, but there are more changes "underneath", so ...

 

4) if he deserves credit only time will show.

 

Unless they do what they did separating 10-49 from 50s with gear....it will make a HUGE difference. What about new lvl 50s coming into pvp? Should we just forget about them?

[tharnvedra]

Georg could have all my credits but he keeps nerfing my operative damage and I cant find the list with much needed new utility skills.

 

He can have my stuff so. My sub runs out on tuesday and so many new titles are around the corner.

 

I will play Mass Effect 3 a bit until I can get my hands on Secret World, Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2, Planetside 2. Innovation and communication is key and one patch every 6 months is so 90s anyways.

 

Check out Rift if you want a proper patch speed and good dev communication on the forum.

[FourTwent]

As lead combat designer, Georg Zoeller has overseen and approved each and every change made to combat in the 1.2 patch, and all paches leading up to it. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, this game has been impeccibly balanced when it comes to combat (i know there have been gripes about mirrors having issues, but they will eventually be resolved). The point being, no class completely obliterates any other class when both players have equal knowledge about their own class, and how to counter abilities other classes are bringing to the table.

 

What have we seen in the 1.2 patch notes regarding classes themselves?

 

Dramatic changes to healing

Certain specs getting damage reductions, while others gain more

Reoptimization to skill trees to entice players to pick and fulfill a single role

 

Now look at the big picture - what is happening to the rest of the game?

 

All item slots have an augment potential (can result in 28x14 more to your base stat overall)

Recalculations on stats themselves including the diminishing returns on expertice (further raising damage and healing done to other players)

New tiers of gear bringing much higher stats than were previously attainable even by the best optimizations

 

 

Now stop and think, if all of these new things were added on top of the current PvP system, people would be hitting and healing for unbelievably high damage - teams that didnt stack 4 healers would be useless as fights would be very very short and lopsided.

 

The classes needed adjustments to incorporate this dramatic increase in potential gear. Your class will not be ruined. Post 1.2 after you gear up you should be seeing the same, if not (probably) more damage/healing on your part, regardless if your class got nerfed.

 

Give Georg the credit he is due, he hasn't fallen short of maintaining balance in combat before, and balance will continue to be maintaned (even moreso) post-1.2

 

Now stop the QQing and start thinking about how you can optimize your spec given the plethora of changes upcoming in the next few weeks.

 

Agreed 100%. I love how people QQ about the game being unbalanced. . .when this is one of the most, if not the most, balanced game in MMO history.

[Bulbasaur]

Unless they do what they did separating 10-49 from 50s with gear....it will make a HUGE difference. What about new lvl 50s coming into pvp? Should we just forget about them?

 

A new tier of gear below centurion is easily available for new 50's called Recruit gear that provides them enough expertice to not be totally useless