Gavin_Darkl Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Does it really matter if solo players have the same gear as raiders? Especially when the gear is so awful looking, and the Orange Crit gear is inherently superior due to extra stats, literally no hardcore raiders will be wearing it anyway. First of all, stop pretending like raids in this game are in any way challenging. They are not. Second, all the shiny raid gear you're "working" for will be replaced in two to three months. Third and finally, if you're raiding for the gear, and not for the challenge, for the strategy involved in downing new content, or for the sheer enjoyment of raiding, then you're doing it wrong. All those players who raid strictly for the gear are the same ones that hoard DKP for their BiS items, passing on upgrades and hurting the group. That don't show up for progression bosses or on certain raid days because they "don't need those bosses" or "don't want to wipe all night", or best of all quit the game the moment their "set" is complete and then complain that there's not enough content. When you figure it out, you'll enjoy raiding (and MMOs in general) much more. Yes it does. We dont raid for just the challenge. We raid to become better. Solo players need to stop with the EPEEN Envy because they have not earned the gear, they feel they need to be handed the gear. If they want the gear go raid for it. quit complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane_Ren Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I never saw a solo player complain because there was no high end gear for their playstyle, but now raiders start their whining about how other people shouldnt get this or that? pathetic I raid and I couldnt care less if a solo player gets the same gear via a different route, its none of my business. I don't pay their sub, so I dont tell them how to play. I'd rather have a bunch of solo players stay and buy my crafted goods on my server than it become a ghost town with just a few moronic elitists congratulating each other. Move on and play something different. Let people play how they want for what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colow_Leper Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I agree that challenge should be the primary motivation for raiding.....of course since SWTOR raids arent challenging (unless Soa is bugged) that leaves us with only loot. Loot which we can now just run some crappy dailies and get "hard mode" epic loots. This game just keeps getting worse. Then leave! Games are for fun - they're not a job - if you don't enjoy it, do something else. All they're trying to do is make it possible for non-raiders (the "casual" players) to get some decent gear - to do it they'll probably have to grind mind-numbing amounts of dailies - but at least it'll be possible for them! I really don't get this elitist "I'm a raider - only l33t raiders should be able to get l33t kit!" Maybe the raid stuff will be a different colour so you can show off *shrug*. Personally I'll get my kit from raiding - if someone else gets the same by grinding dailies for three months - more power to 'em I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Darkl Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I never saw a solo player complain because there was no high end gear for their playstyle, but now raiders start their whining about how other people shouldnt get this or that? pathetic I raid and I couldnt care less if a solo player gets the same gear via a different route, its none of my business. I don't pay their sub, so I dont tell them how to play. I'd rather have a bunch of solo players stay and buy my crafted goods on my server than it become a ghost town with just a few moronic elitists congratulating each other. Move on and play something different. Let people play how they want for what they want. Again. You do not need raid gear if you do not raid. We will give you presence gear all day long without a problem. And Yes Solo players keep complaining that they are not getting raid gear from solo content. Sorry Kane but you are wrong. If people want another route to get gear a little faster to subsidize their raiding then badges with a raid boss token would be good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Darkl Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Then leave! Games are for fun - they're not a job - if you don't enjoy it, do something else. All they're trying to do is make it possible for non-raiders (the "casual" players) to get some decent gear - to do it they'll probably have to grind mind-numbing amounts of dailies - but at least it'll be possible for them! I really don't get this elitist "I'm a raider - only l33t raiders should be able to get l33t kit!" Maybe the raid stuff will be a different colour so you can show off *shrug*. Personally I'll get my kit from raiding - if someone else gets the same by grinding dailies for three months - more power to 'em I say. Gain why do solo players care if they even get raid gear? Really they freely choose not to raid. Its not like that they are being forced not to raid, if they wanted to there are hundreds of raiding guilds that would love to take them on. If non-raiders want gear presence gear is what they want not raid gear. They have not earned raid gear just by paying $15 a month. Paying $15 a month and killing a raid boss is earning the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Why does it need to be reduced? The gear isn't needed for solo play, but it gives the solo player something to work towards. It gives the raiders something to do outside of raid time as well that will actually help them be better while raiding. Also, the comms come from weeklies, so you only have to actually do the dailies one day a week, not every day, perfect for the casual player. It needs reduced because it's so absurdly long that no one will actually bother. The carrot on the end of a stick works. The carrot on the other side of the galaxy doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane_Ren Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Paying $15 a month and killing a raid boss is earning the gear. paying $15 a month and spending longer than raiders to get it IS earning it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyNameLeft Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 @Gavin_Darkl Research and find out where these comms drop... BH comms do not drop from dailies, the only way to get them on Corelia is a Weekly that gives 6 a week. Stop spreading misinformation, do your research, play your game, and quit worrying that other toon over there has what you feel you're more worthy and uber to deserve. These are not "WoW handouts," these are things a soloist would have to invest an inordinate amount of time to grind even one piece. You, me, and anyone who raids will have the gear long before someone who relies on the Weekly will. Maybe that will soothe whatever it is that makes you so perturbed by the fact that the lowly non-raiders dare don the same digital armor as you. The new daily area provides the same daily commendation currency as the existing daily areas. Currently, in the new area, Black Hole Commendations are only given out on a single weekly quest. If they're being seen on the daily quests themselves, that's a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midden Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Phew, these forums are full of Raid / PVP type personalities making massive drama's out of non issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordakii Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Me my friend his wife and their extended friends&family left a certain game because that games new expansion made casual players into 2nd class citizens.That game is now supposedly offering casuals lots of new incentives to play in order to put a halt on what was a massive sub loss.That leads me to believe that alot of those subs quit because of the "Raiders Only" system was a cataclysmically bad design.Swtor,I believe,is a fantasy/sci-fi roleplaying game and not a competative sport .Here's an ideal,why not let people play the way thats fun for them,and you concentrate on yourself and not on what others should or shouldn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todorovh Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Even if the new tier really is obtainable by just doing dailies , it'll take such a ridiculous amount of time and effort, that the person who actually does it really deserves to have it lol Imo they should be considered more L33t than the average raider .. who shows up for a 2 hour raid, has access to crafting materials and recipes, and is fully geared in a week or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Darkl Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 paying $15 a month and spending longer than raiders to get it IS earning it No its not. You dont have anyone else that could keep you from your gear. A Raider can. So no you did not earn it. You are being handed it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anrew Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I agree that raiders "should" be motivated by challenge, but gear is more rewarding and showing of accomplishment then just I beat it. Casual players who don't raid honestly aren't doing anything that requires the best gear where in some situations raiding can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Darkl Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Me my friend his wife and their extended friends&family left a certain game because that games new expansion made casual players into 2nd class citizens.That game is now supposedly offering casuals lots of new incentives to play in order to put a halt on what was a massive sub loss.That leads me to believe that alot of those subs quit because of the "Raiders Only" system was a cataclysmically bad design.Swtor,I believe,is a fantasy/sci-fi roleplaying game and not a competative sport .Here's an ideal,why not let people play the way thats fun for them,and you concentrate on yourself and not on what others should or shouldn't have. Raiding is not hard at all in this game. A lot of people do full clears of normal mode raids, soon to be called story mode. There is a difference between Casual players and people wanting the gear handed to them. Casual players just need to find a guild that fits their needs, be on time for raids and raid. Its not hard to raid with needing 8 people. If you are finding it a hard time its because the guild is too small for raiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyNameLeft Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 No its not. You dont have anyone else that could keep you from your gear. A Raider can. So no you did not earn it. You are being handed it to you. Hehe. You just keep ignoring the actual facts, eh? Yep, gaining a whopping 6 BH comms a week is exactly like merely handing out the gear. Seems you have quite the axe to grind, and won't let silly things like facts get in your way. Hyperbole and misinformation FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Hehe. You just keep ignoring the actual facts, eh? Yep, gaining a whopping 6 BH comms a week is exactly like merely handing out the gear. Seems you have quite the axe to grind, and won't let silly things like facts get in your way. Hyperbole and misinformation FTW! I think I got it figured out. He actually supports getting gear solo so he pretends to not support it and offers absurd arguments to undermine the "elitest" position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Darkl Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I agree that raiders "should" be motivated by challenge, but gear is more rewarding and showing of accomplishment then just I beat it. Casual players who don't raid honestly aren't doing anything that requires the best gear where in some situations raiding can. I like challenge dont get me wrong but I also do it for the gear. To better the character I play in group content. If the gear is given away with dailies, or sold on the GTN why would I spend any time raiding when 1 or 2 people screwing up can cost us the boss fight? Soloing can not replicate at all another player making a mistake in a raid. This is what solo players can not and never will understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Darkl Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) I think I got it figured out. He actually supports getting gear solo so he pretends to not support it and offers absurd arguments to undermine the "elitest" position. no its simple I dont want raid gear given out for not playing the content. Its not that hard to understand. Solo gear with presence is not a problem Edited March 28, 2012 by Gavin_Darkl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordakii Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Ok you said "you"want raiders to have the best gear and think this is fair,what if because so many people dont raid"they"wanted only non-raiders to have the best gear,would that be fair?The answer to that would be no,because it would be deriving enjoyment on not what you have but instead on what others cannot have. Edited March 28, 2012 by Ordakii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisAquilus Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Raid gear for raiders. If you don't have the skill to complete the raids, tough luck. Paying a subscription doesn't entitle you to have the best gear in the game. Edited March 28, 2012 by CanisAquilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordakii Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) No but doing the required dailys do it would seem.It's just comes down to how many subscribers to the game they want.Most people are not gonna pay to play a game which is designed to cater to a minority of the player population and is detrimental to its majority of players.Not saying thats what swtor does,just seems it's what so called "elites"seem to want.No offence to true elites who are busy enjoying the game for what it can offer them and not what it does or doesn't offer others. Edited March 28, 2012 by Ordakii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol_ Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I raid for the raid, not the gear. As long as it isn't the best stuff available in the game I don't care how good solo gear is. I'd boot the majority of the loot whores replying in this thread from my raid group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typeslice Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Apologies if this has already been said in the thread, but BW has already said that Nightmare in 1.2 and beyond will have higher tier of gear than hard; so, if you want the best gear in game, you'll still have to raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taloros Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I have read both sides of the comments on this subject and quite frankly the logic some of the people are comming up with show nothing but epeen syndrome mentality. I personally have been on both sides an elite raider who has completed everything in a game and also one who has relaxed and just enjoyed a game. Honestly in this game if you think you are somehow more entitled and more deserving then someone who spends everday doing the dailies in this game then you are sadly mistaken. It takes on average 45 mins to 2 hrs to complete a raid on hard mode compair that to doing the average dailies which is aproximately 4hrs + and now they are adding in more with 1.2. Yes there is a quest to get tokens for the last tier of armor from dailies but what you people fail to realize is that you must complete every daily for a week to complete the weekly quest for the blackhole tokens and then you get a very minimal amount of tokens not enough to obtain a piece of raid armor until you have completed multiple weeks of the quest. DO THE MATH PEOPLE. The people who atttempt to get geared this way have to enjoy being tortured. This is a time sync and a half. If you raiders think this is still unfair then you people need your head examined. I am a raider and I have no problems with this because not alot of people are going to be doing this . You realize how boring this is going to get over time. They will start going stir crazy before they get a full set. Besides by the time they get maybe 1 piece us raiders will most likely be fully equipped so if you think spending 4+ hrs a day doing boring dailies weekly to complete a weekly quest in which if you miss 1 quest during the week you fail the weekly for the tokens and then add on top of that you get minimum amount of tokens and the smallest amount of tokens for a piece is 20 which I think would be 4 weeks then I think that is fair. If you dont then go and quit and make the game a less toxic place for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValaxDarkseer Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Casual Solo guy says, "SWTOR shouldnt be about gear but the fun!!!" Casual solo guy says, "I want the best gear too. Why does he get better gear than me when we all pay the same sub fee?!" Gotta love the hypocrisy from the CasuLoLs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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