Rayla_Felana Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 All the canonical evidence points to Malgus being the better of the two. Republic fans, I understand you don't want it to be so but you have no proof otherwise, just wishful thinking. On the other hand, the Emperor would own them both in a fight without breaking a sweat. Wrong, I listed earlier much more impressive canonical abilities which you can find in her journal, the game and Fatal Alliance. Malgus does not have the abilities she does, he is great in close combat, a Sith Warrior that is one with the dark side, outside of close combat he is no big deal, Satele would destroy him at range before Malgus could use his greater close combat abilities. Seriously, stop watching the Trailers and thinking they carry enough weight to sway an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathlight- Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Wrong, I listed earlier much more impressive canonical abilities which you can find in her journal, the game and Fatal Alliance. Malgus does not have the abilities she does, he is great in close combat, a Sith Warrior that is one with the dark side, outside of close combat he is no big deal, Satele would destroy him at range before Malgus could use his greater close combat abilities. Seriously, stop watching the Trailers and thinking they carry enough weight to sway an argument. Sure, makes more sense to guess who would win based on her "much more impressive canonical abilities" rather than in their two actual fights which took place in one of the most polished and publicized piece of canon and in which she got badly beat. It's the equivalent of saying such boxer is stronger than such other one because his abilities on paper look so much better when the first beat the snot out of the other one two times already. Edited March 31, 2012 by Pathlight- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Sure, makes more sense to guess who would win based on her "much more impressive canonical abilities" rather than in their two actual fights which took place in one of the most polished and publicized piece of canon and in which she got badly beat. It's the equivalent of saying such boxer is stronger than such other one because his abilities on paper look so much better when the first beat the snot out of the other one two times already. Major flaw with your Arnem Ixem argument there, This is them both in their prime, neither of them are in their prime during the trailers, and Malgus carries a significant experience and training edge over Satele. He also holds another advantage in both of their duels: The Dark Side gives power quickly and easily, allowing the Sith to become powerful almost immediately, mastering it comes quite a bit sooner. The Light Side requires years if not decades to master and power simply does not come quickly, it takes awhile for true power in the force to come because they temper it's use. Satele does not fulfill her potential till after the Great Galactic War, Malgus achieves it at the end of the war. Satele in her prime is shown taking out ships, learning Shatterpoint, annihilating enemy forces in seconds, and achieving oneness regularly, Malgus does not have such mastery over the force, he has mastery in lightsaber combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathlight- Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Major flaw with your Arnem Ixem argument there, This is them both in their prime, neither of them are in their prime during the trailers, and Malgus carries a significant experience and training edge over Satele. He also holds another advantage in both of their duels: The Dark Side gives power quickly and easily, allowing the Sith to become powerful almost immediately, mastering it comes quite a bit sooner. The Light Side requires years if not decades to master and power simply does not come quickly, it takes awhile for true power in the force to come because they temper it's use. Satele does not fulfill her potential till after the Great Galactic War, Malgus achieves it at the end of the war. Satele in her prime is shown taking out ships, learning Shatterpoint, annihilating enemy forces in seconds, and achieving oneness regularly, Malgus does not have such mastery over the force, he has mastery in lightsaber combat. Again, not to belabor the point but you are relying on a mix of conjectures and wishful thinking. We know one thing for sure: they butted heads two times and she would have died right then and there had she not received help. As for when the game takes place, it makes no sense to argue who would win without seeing them fight now. Again, the most solid evidence we have in the absence of a new confrontation shows Malgus dominating. Edited March 31, 2012 by Pathlight- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vektarulz Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 satele is the strongest of all Jedi,malgus was just some jerk not as strong as raid bosses sooo probably her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Again, not to belabor the point but you are relying on a mix of conjectures and wishful thinking. We know one thing for sure: they butted heads two times and she would have died right then and there had she not received help. As for when the game takes place, it makes no sense to argue who would win without seeing them fight now. Again, the most solid evidence we have in the absence of a new confrontation shows Malgus dominating. Ah so your argument is: "Let's ignore everything canon that says Satele would win in favor of all the canon that says Malgus would win." Thanks for clarifying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathlight- Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Ah so your argument is: "Let's ignore everything canon that says Satele would win in favor of all the canon that says Malgus would win." Thanks for clarifying that. No. Here's some clarification for you: I use deductive logic: indirect evidence is not as conclusive as direct evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 No. Here's some clarification for you: I use deductive logic: indirect evidence is not as conclusive as direct evidence. Indirect evidence > Outdated and invalid evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathlight- Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Indirect evidence > Outdated and invalid evidence. This isn't going anywhere. Seems we'll have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 This isn't going anywhere. Seems we'll have to agree to disagree. Simply my reason for not using your evidence is, well, let's use an example: Grand Master Skywalker vs Palpatine Reborn. We have plenty of evidence that Grand Master Luke is leaps and bounds more powerful than Sidious reborn. You are using this kind of evidence: In Return of the Jedi Luke lost to Sidious, therefore Grand Master Luke loses to Palpatine Reborn. See why this argument is invalid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Simple Answer: Since someone would have to write a fight or design a trailer or movie around them it would depend on who they wanted to win. The trailers for Tor were designed that way to show different things. So who would win would depend on the writers of the scene. Edited March 31, 2012 by casi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Given that Malgus already beat her twice, that she's afraid to face him again, and the abilities we know they have, I'd say Malgus will win every time. Canon shows that Malgus becomes invulnerable to all damage at around 9% health, and that the only way to kill him is to knock him off a ledge. This takes two consecutive knockbacks, which require two players since Shan only has one. This is assuming, of course, that she manages to interrupt every instagib lightning cast, which could be rough solo. I mean, if she's in the middle of a cast... there's no /stopcast macros in this game. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure she has an interrupt. I've never seen a raid boss with one. Looks like Malgus wins before Satele even gets him low enough to worry about damage immunity and lightning spam. Also, "Malgus let a trooper get close to him so he's bad" is a pretty poor argument. I couldn't even count the number of Sith and Jedi my operative has killed. Saber jockies aren't all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardPatton Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Well IMO Satele is stronger... well of course when she was a grandmaster. First time she fought she was a padawan second time she was a knight. If she fought him the third time when she was a grandmaster MAYBE she could've won. I SAID MAYBE PEOPLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyer Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Simple Answer: Since someone would have to write a fight or design a trailer or movie around them it would depend on who they wanted to win. The trailers for Tor were designed that way to show different things. So who would win would depend on the writers of the scene. Sadly, this is probably the most accurate and valid argument made so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaEkotte Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Malgus by far, shan may agility, Malgus has brute physical strenght which is also important. I would also like to point out that malgus was about 0.5 seconds from killing shan in return, and he almost killed shen again in hope. And the dark side is just plain stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Malgus is more about brute strength and power, Shan is about finesse and agility. In their first fight, Malgus is clearly superior, and is only prevented from killing her by the intervention of her Jedi Master, who Malgus later kills after the Jedi Master has defeated Malgus' Master. Win for Malgus. In their second fight, Malgus is still superior, but less so than before. t the time when the Trooper intervenes with the grenade, Malgus has the advantage but the fight is still in the balance. However, with the help of the Trooper, Shan eventually beats Malgus (it is difficult to argue that being buried under a pile of rocks is a win, even if you were ahead at the half-time break). Oh, and 1v2 or getting asssitance is not fair? A quote from Lord Zash during the Inquisitor storyline on Korriban... "Since when was being Sith anything to do with being fair?" - All is fair in Love, War and game trailers. Also, it is not over until the fat lady sings. The advantage that Malgus had at the time the Trooper intervened does not count as a victory because both combatants were still willing and able to fight. I give this one as a points win to Shan. In their third (hypothetical) fight, both are significantly older, and both have retained the same archetypal body types - Malgus has bulked up a bit but is probably still fast with his armor, Shan is still lithe and agile. She will have gained more knowledge of the Force than Malgus (with the "Sith come into their power early, for Jedi it takes more time" argument), plus Shan has shown more ranged combat abilities than Malgus so she could in theory stay out of his combat range and wear him down. Having said that, they would both probably want to get into melee at some point, where pretty much anything could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadshackles Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Grand Master is not awarded to the Jedi with the most skill. It is a political seat. It's not like Satele beat the Grand Master before her and took his seat. Jedi don't roll like that. Grand Master means nothing. Raw 1 on 1 combat Skills vs Skills. Malgus would wreck shop on Satele. Thankfully, it will never matter. Jedi support their own and Malgus will never have the opportunity Also I want to point out one flaw in the "only the emperor is more powerful than malgus" statement... The end of the Jedi Knight story line is that you solo kill the Emperor... So... yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja_skillet Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Grand Master is not awarded to the Jedi with the most skill. It is a political seat. It's not like Satele beat the Grand Master before her and took his seat. Jedi don't roll like that. Grand Master means nothing. Raw 1 on 1 combat Skills vs Skills. Malgus would wreck shop on Satele. Thankfully, it will never matter. Jedi support their own and Malgus will never have the opportunity Also I want to point out one flaw in the "only the emperor is more powerful than malgus" statement... The end of the Jedi Knight story line is that you solo kill the Emperor... So... yeah... The emperor isnt dead. Jedi Knight killed the Emperor's voice. So....Yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydann Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Satele in her prime is shown taking out ships, learning Shatterpoint, annihilating enemy forces in seconds, and achieving oneness regularly, Malgus does not have such mastery over the force, he has mastery in lightsaber combat. Glad you came to your senses and agreed Malgus would win in a fight. Cuz thats the question not who is the most powerfull in the force. Edited April 3, 2012 by Jaydann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Glad you came to your senses and agreed Malgus would win in a fight. Cuz thats the question not who is the most powerfull in the force. Did you seriously just state that the force has no bearing in combat? lmfao. The Force has proven to be a superior weapon than a Lightsaber far more times than the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhudian Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 satele wins! malgus would be distracted by her breasts I disagree. Satele's power is not contained within a wonderbra, but instead is held beneath the supple leather of her trousers. There is a moment of slo-mo in the middle of soloing a bunch of sith trash mobs in the "Hope" trailer that proves it--or at least the motion of the leather suggests that her... uh... command of the Force is impossibly well developed while retaining a soft touch; her technique is clearly quite malleable and yet surprisingly firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathlight- Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I disagree. Satele's power is not contained within a wonderbra, but instead is held beneath the supple leather of her trousers. There is a moment of slo-mo in the middle of soloing a bunch of sith trash mobs in the "Hope" trailer that proves it--or at least the motion of the leather suggests that her... uh... command of the Force is impossibly well developed while retaining a soft touch; her technique is clearly quite malleable and yet surprisingly firm. Yep, Satele beats us Sith on one front: she's incredibly hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) In their second fight, Malgus is still superior, but less so than before. t the time when the Trooper intervenes with the grenade, Malgus has the advantage but the fight is still in the balance. However, with the help of the Trooper, Shan eventually beats Malgus (it is difficult to argue that being buried under a pile of rocks is a win, even if you were ahead at the half-time break). Oh, and 1v2 or getting asssitance is not fair? A quote from Lord Zash during the Inquisitor storyline on Korriban... "Since when was being Sith anything to do with being fair?" - All is fair in Love, War and game trailers. Also, it is not over until the fat lady sings. The advantage that Malgus had at the time the Trooper intervened does not count as a victory because both combatants were still willing and able to fight. I give this one as a points win to Shan. The flaw in your argument is that we're not asking whose army will win. The implicit condition is that it's a "fair" fight, ie, one doesn't get to bring in extra resources other than their blade and abilities. If we saw this as a duel in-game between two players, no one would say "Satele won that 1v1 fight." They might say, though, that Malgus was just getting into position to finish Satele before a trooper stunned him and allowed Satele to get distance and chain several abilities together to finish it. Again, talking in terms of players, if Satele started bragging about how she owned Malgus, most people would just ignore her because of the interference. Malgus would tell her that if she thought she could do it again without help, she's welcome to try. In time-honored MMO tradtion, Satele would say "lol I don't have to prove anything I already beat you scrub." I'm translating, but does anyone really doubt that Malgus would be eager and willing to have a rematch and Satele would avoid one like her life depended on it... because it does? Satele in her prime is shown taking out ships, learning Shatterpoint, annihilating enemy forces in seconds, and achieving oneness regularly, Malgus does not have such mastery over the force, he has mastery in lightsaber combat. Malgus helps other people achieve "oneness with the force" all the time. Edited April 3, 2012 by Sinemetu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathlight- Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The flaw in your argument is that we're not asking whose army will win. The implicit condition is that it's a "fair" fight, ie, one doesn't get to bring in extra resources other than their blade and abilities. If we saw this as a duel in-game between two players, no one would say "Satele won that 1v1 fight." They might say, though, that Malgus was just getting into position to finish Satele before a trooper stunned him and allowed Satele to get distance and chain several abilities together to finish it. Again, talking in terms of players, if Satele started bragging about how she owned Malgus, most people would just ignore her because of the interference. Malgus would tell her that if she thought she could do it again without help, she's welcome to try. In time-honored MMO tradtion, Satele would say "lol I don't have to prove anything I already beat you scrub." I'm translating, but does anyone really doubt that Malgus would be eager and willing to have a rematch and Satele would avoid one like her life depended on it... because it does? Malgus helps other people achieve "oneness with the force" all the time. Lol, she does write in her journal that she's afraid to face him again. And also calls him a "clicker noob". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ_SAX_MAN Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 so far Malgus doesn't seem like the ****** the trailers made him out to be, always sending me to flashpoints and I ask "Aren't you coming" and he always has some lame excuse ummmmm YOU FORGET YOUR PLACE!!!! ummmm IT'S THE EMPEROR'S WILL!!! ummmmm I am needed elsewhere (because I don't want to try to fight Revan) not actual quotes, I can't remember what he really said when I asked why he isn't going to the Foundry, but that sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts