Why 1.2 Changes Shouldn't Go Through

[Finndali]

Wait.. are you guys complaining that you, as a Tank based class, won't be able to DPS as well as a Pure DPS Class?

 

If so... my god.

 

[/zombie] Brains! Brains! [zombie]

 

ONE of the THREE skill trees for Jugs/Guardians is for tanking.

If you spec Vengeance or Rage, you can't tank worth ****, and are just as much a "pure dps" as a Marauder.

[Ansultares]

Im amazed these new added stuns doesnt bother people. Useless resolve bar filling. Thats a nerf

This; these aren't even the problem classes in that regard.

[sithgreyguard]

where did you all see the 1.2 stuff? i couldnt find the patch notes?

[Ptrain]

Decimate seems do add only 20% damage instead of 30% (not in the patch notes)

 

Why are we assuming that decimate is going to lose 10%? Just because they are lowering it 1 skill point maybe it's being changed to 15% per skill point....

[Thryton]

You must have missed the part where marauders can tank better than two of the three jugg specs.

 

 

Oooh yea, "tank based class". ****

 

Not true if people would actually stance dance....You can off tank pretty damn easily with more sustained mitigation than a mara, but alas button pushing monkies want everything. Can a mara tank for 12 seconds? Yes, but can it do much more than that? No

 

play the class not the role. if juggs were only suppose to tank we'd have 3 tank trees. this whole hybrid v pure BS is crap. sorry you're a butthurt mara who got a lightsaber taken by a jugg once. if you wanted the option to tank you had a chance at level 10. if a sniper wanted to heal he had the chance at level 10. deal with it.

 

If you wanted to play a dps class you could have chosen at level 10 like everyone else. If any game designer wanted to put all the classes on par then there would only be 1 warrior class. Can a Jug dps? Yes, but if you make them on par or better than the counter nobody would want to play the other. It then becomes a moot point.

 

I think Jugs should be able to play a dps role, but they should not be made as good as a dps class. The balancing act that people just assume is an easy fix is what every game struggles with constantly.

 

more like why do pure dpsers care if a hybrid does the same dps as them?

 

More like why do hybrid dpsers care that they do slightly less dps.

 

I play both warrior classes in end game. They both bring an entirely different set of tools to a pve or pvp group. If you dont maximize your own utility within each class I dont know what to say.

[BrotherJohn]

Yes we are , since we are supposed to be viable as dps.

 

I also have complaints about the fact that mara´s gotbetter defensive cd´s than a "Tank-class"

 

But hey ... I always got my 41 Mara alt.

 

 

You sir are a well !@#$%. if you have to say you are not viable with these changes as a juggy than you just want to play the FOTM class and really want an easy mode game. NONE and i mean NONE of these changes make juggy dps any less effective. They are a JUGGY not a MARA which means they will be able to take more damage over a longer period of time with out having to worry about hitting a skill for def and cutting into their dps.

 

Mara are the melee dps which means no matter how much you want to think your juggy should do more dps IT SIMPLY SHOULDN'T HAVE EVER BEEN LIKE THAT.

 

It is sad that people have yet to try out the changes and yes you will be changing your play style but your changing your play style due to actually have to play a tank class after all.

[Dirtysolutions]

You sir are a well !@#$%. if you have to say you are not viable with these changes as a juggy than you just want to play the FOTM class and really want an easy mode game. NONE and i mean NONE of these changes make juggy dps any less effective. They are a JUGGY not a MARA which means they will be able to take more damage over a longer period of time with out having to worry about hitting a skill for def and cutting into their dps.

 

Mara are the melee dps which means no matter how much you want to think your juggy should do more dps IT SIMPLY SHOULDN'T HAVE EVER BEEN LIKE THAT.

 

It is sad that people have yet to try out the changes and yes you will be changing your play style but your changing your play style due to actually have to play a tank class after all.

 

And you sir should proceed directly to buy a pair of readingglasses since I doesnt state in any post on any part of the forums that Juggs should do more dps than maras.

 

However - Im am very dissapointed with these changes and I was hoping, and actually counting on juggs getting some love (especially for vengeance).

 

IMO (as in "This is WHAT I THINK") This is a big letdown.

 

Also I dont play a "Tank class", I play an AC that has 1 (ONE) Tree for tanking, and 2 trees for dps.

 

Ps. No I dont plan on quiting I really like this game, and I really want it to to flourish. Actually I havent posted one single whine until I read patchnotes yesterday and this is the first time I think Bio has made a big fail so far.

[sithgreyguard]

complain people maybe they will make better changes.

[glenbruton]

its the end of the world (of starwarscraft) as we know it!

[Goretzu]

Why are we assuming that decimate is going to lose 10%? Just because they are lowering it 1 skill point maybe it's being changed to 15% per skill point....

 

It's not, or wasn't anyway.

[GrimaIdi]

I am a Full BM Rage Juggernaut who leads a top PVP guild on Hedaar Soongh. I have Rakata Tank and DPS sets, as well as Columi. I say this not to brag but to give my credentials. I would consider myself one of the best juggernauts on my server who consistently does top damage every warzone, rarely out of the top 2.

 

 

With Full battlemaster gear, I only have 15600 HP. Furthermore, I have Saber Ward as my only real damage mitigation ability endemic to my class. A DPS geared and specd Juggernaut does not have high survivability, to be honest a DPS Mercenary has more HP. The AC merely offsets the HP differential. So for this conversation we should take the premise that a DPS Rage Juggernaut is indeed a DPS class and more importantly the most viable DPS Juggernaut spec in the game, and as it stands the Vengeance Tree past tier 2 is not viable for anyone truly seeking to be competitive in endgame PVP as a DPS class. The patch notes themselves confirm that.

 

(Rage Spec Jugg)

 

I can go into the math if needed in another post but for now this will have to be enough. 90% of your damage output comes from force damage, particularly due to the crit multiplier and dark resonance bonus. Furthermore, Smash & Force Scream is where you derive a great majority of that force damage. Force Alacrity 3 seconds is trivial for forcechoke, forcepush and not a huge deal for forcecrush (though negated with the CD reduction to 18 come 1.2) for Smash and Force Scream its quite huge. Final - Initial / Initial to calculate the % difference is an easy way to show that. The reduced Casting time of smash from 15 to 12 is important to note so you analyze the situation appropriately.

 

12-9/9 = 33.33% increase in casting time. Smash

12-9/9 = 33.33% increase in casting time. Force Scream

 

This means if 90% of our damage comes from Force, and 80% of that from those 2 moves. .9 * .8 = .72 * .333 = 23.76% damage reduction approximation.

 

 

The reality is yes as others have pointed out there is a 20-15/15 = 33.33% increase in the duration of both the 100% critical strike opportunity of smash derived from the obliterate and charge as well as a 33.33% increase in the duration of the shockwave, with additional means to generate shockwave stacks from enrage, which is a huge boon for the Juggernaut, and I would never argue otherwise. To do so would be admittance of lack of understanding on how to play my class. The rate determining step though is not the Shockwave, it is the casting time on your 2 highest burst damage abilities. Why do I say that. The reality is in PVP, you can ensure 3 full shockwaves rotations, and almost infinite 100% criticals from dominate with Obliterate/Force Charge. Therefore sometimes you have shockwave management issues but its few and far between in fluid pvp (stuns, knockbacks, deaths, roots, cc, etc), rage management and move CD are your 2 most important issues respectively, the first being easily addressed. Therefore, it sounds great to buff the 15 second duration by what appears to be in proportion to the increase of the casting time of the moves themselves, in actuality it is anything but.

 

It is excessive and wasteful, the only thing we need is the buff to enrage that now grants shockwave instead of additional rage, that will give Juggernauts all they need to truly balance the shockwave management issue.

 

I would gladly give up all the improvements to the shockwave/Crit timers in exchange to keep force alacrity in the game. It is the single most important change to our class.

 

(Vicious slash is no different than uninteruptble ravage....or vengeance spec, its noise. Mathematically a waste. )

 

Between Global Cooldown and move rotation you can fluidly rotate your moves with occasional times of deadspots. If these changes go through, Juggernauts will lose much of their viability come endgame rated PVP. This will be seen after the initial burst from their first engagement. They just cannot keep up the pressure on the healers to be a viable threat. Juggs will still be viable but not on the level they once were, with no survivability to compensate that damage reduction.

 

It does not matter that the buffs stay on longer, rarely is that an issue, it is sustainable DPS and rage efficiency that matter, and utilizing free Crit Forcescreams that hit 2500-3500 a pop at 9 second clips and multi targetted AE at 2700-5500 is how we keep the engine running with supplemental secondary moves thrown in.

 

 

I can effectively tank in my tank gear as an OT but I cannot Maintank adequately specd in Rage, or any spec outside of Immortal to be honest. The reality is to maintank as a Juggernaut in High End Content you must be immortal spec so I do not think you can really call Juggernaut a pure tank class by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I hope someone who can make real decisions reads this and furthermore those who are serious endgame pvp DPS Juggernauts voice their support.

 

I would wholeheartedly give up any buffs to my shockwave and crit timer to keep the reduced timers on Force Scream & Smash to maintain my viability in PVP.

 

-Grimaldi, Leader of Blood Pact

Edited March 19, 2012 by GrimaIdi

[Goretzu]

 

I would wholeheartedly give up any buffs to my shockwave and crit timer to keep the reduced timers on Force Scream & Smash to maintain my viability in PVP.

 

-Grimaldi, Leader of Blood Pact

 

 

That post needs posting in some of the Public Test forums threads, very complete discription of the issues.

[GrimaIdi]

try and keep that post active, we need to get attention!

[FormulaJ]

Removing force alacrity is a giant nerf!! 90% of our moves r affected

[ExpLiciTSainT]

I am a Full BM Rage Juggernaut who leads a top PVP guild on Hedaar Soongh. I have Rakata Tank and DPS sets, as well as Columi. I say this not to brag but to give my credentials. I would consider myself one of the best juggernauts on my server who consistently does top damage every warzone, rarely out of the top 2.

 

 

With Full battlemaster gear, I only have 15600 HP. Furthermore, I have Saber Ward as my only real damage mitigation ability endemic to my class. A DPS geared and specd Juggernaut does not have high survivability, to be honest a DPS Mercenary has more HP. The AC merely offsets the HP differential. So for this conversation we should take the premise that a DPS Rage Juggernaut is indeed a DPS class and more importantly the most viable DPS Juggernaut spec in the game, and as it stands the Vengeance Tree past tier 2 is not viable for anyone truly seeking to be competitive in endgame PVP as a DPS class. The patch notes themselves confirm that.

 

(Rage Spec Jugg)

 

I can go into the math if needed in another post but for now this will have to be enough. 90% of your damage output comes from force damage, particularly due to the crit multiplier and dark resonance bonus. Furthermore, Smash & Force Scream is where you derive a great majority of that force damage. Force Alacrity 3 seconds is trivial for forcechoke, forcepush and not a huge deal for forcecrush (though negated with the CD reduction to 18 come 1.2) for Smash and Force Scream its quite huge. Final - Initial / Initial to calculate the % difference is an easy way to show that. The reduced Casting time of smash from 15 to 12 is important to note so you analyze the situation appropriately.

 

12-9/9 = 33.33% increase in casting time. Smash

12-9/9 = 33.33% increase in casting time. Force Scream

 

This means if 90% of our damage comes from Force, and 80% of that from those 2 moves. .9 * .8 = .72 * .333 = 23.76% damage reduction approximation.

 

 

The reality is yes as others have pointed out there is a 20-15/15 = 33.33% increase in the duration of both the 100% critical strike opportunity of smash derived from the obliterate and charge as well as a 33.33% increase in the duration of the shockwave, with additional means to generate shockwave stacks from enrage, which is a huge boon for the Juggernaut, and I would never argue otherwise. To do so would be admittance of lack of understanding on how to play my class. The rate determining step though is not the Shockwave, it is the casting time on your 2 highest burst damage abilities. Why do I say that. The reality is in PVP, you can ensure 3 full shockwaves rotations, and almost infinite 100% criticals from dominate with Obliterate/Force Charge. Therefore sometimes you have shockwave management issues but its few and far between in fluid pvp (stuns, knockbacks, deaths, roots, cc, etc), rage management and move CD are your 2 most important issues respectively, the first being easily addressed. Therefore, it sounds great to buff the 15 second duration by what appears to be in proportion to the increase of the casting time of the moves themselves, in actuality it is anything but.

 

It is excessive and wasteful, the only thing we need is the buff to enrage that now grants shockwave instead of additional rage, that will give Juggernauts all they need to truly balance the shockwave management issue.

 

I would gladly give up all the improvements to the shockwave/Crit timers in exchange to keep force alacrity in the game. It is the single most important change to our class.

 

(Vicious slash is no different than uninteruptble ravage....or vengeance spec, its noise. Mathematically a waste. )

 

Between Global Cooldown and move rotation you can fluidly rotate your moves with occasional times of deadspots. If these changes go through, Juggernauts will lose much of their viability come endgame rated PVP. This will be seen after the initial burst from their first engagement. They just cannot keep up the pressure on the healers to be a viable threat. Juggs will still be viable but not on the level they once were, with no survivability to compensate that damage reduction.

 

It does not matter that the buffs stay on longer, rarely is that an issue, it is sustainable DPS and rage efficiency that matter, and utilizing free Crit Forcescreams that hit 2500-3500 a pop at 9 second clips and multi targetted AE at 2700-5500 is how we keep the engine running with supplemental secondary moves thrown in.

 

 

I can effectively tank in my tank gear as an OT but I cannot Maintank adequately specd in Rage, or any spec outside of Immortal to be honest. The reality is to maintank as a Juggernaut in High End Content you must be immortal spec so I do not think you can really call Juggernaut a pure tank class by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I hope someone who can make real decisions reads this and furthermore those who are serious endgame pvp DPS Juggernauts voice their support.

 

I would wholeheartedly give up any buffs to my shockwave and crit timer to keep the reduced timers on Force Scream & Smash to maintain my viability in PVP.

 

-Grimaldi, Leader of Blood Pact

 

Dude - THANK YOU. My exact thoughts written for me.

 

As for all the Mar complaining about us having a better Rage - you all have a better single target DPS tree anyways. We are only better in many v many situations. I play with a Mar, and together with our mix specs, we do very well.

 

If this is the case, our 1v1 tree needs a huge boost if Rage is to be nerfed.

[gsorreta]

I actually like the changes.

 

It's also not like in the middle of PVP I always use force smash and force moves immediately when the cooldown is up. There are too many things going on to really do that, especially when stuns, snares, etc. get in the way. Now at least with the longer buff people will have a harder time avoiding my smash crits.

[ExpLiciTSainT]

I actually like the changes.

 

It's also not like in the middle of PVP I always use force smash and force moves immediately when the cooldown is up. There are too many things going on to really do that, especially when stuns, snares, etc. get in the way. Now at least with the longer buff people will have a harder time avoiding my smash crits.

 

I agree with you on that. What I don't like is in the situation you are fighting 1v1, sometimes I have everything setup but smash is on CD. I couldn't imaging another 3 seconds when I'm almost dead.

 

In your case, I am useful at higher warzone DPS, in my case, I am useful at more effectively killing people in 1v1 situations.

[Drakendrak]

I am a Full BM Rage Juggernaut who leads a top PVP guild on Hedaar Soongh. I have Rakata Tank and DPS sets, as well as Columi. I say this not to brag but to give my credentials. I would consider myself one of the best juggernauts on my server who consistently does top damage every warzone, rarely out of the top 2.

 

 

With Full battlemaster gear, I only have 15600 HP. Furthermore, I have Saber Ward as my only real damage mitigation ability endemic to my class. A DPS geared and specd Juggernaut does not have high survivability, to be honest a DPS Mercenary has more HP. The AC merely offsets the HP differential. So for this conversation we should take the premise that a DPS Rage Juggernaut is indeed a DPS class and more importantly the most viable DPS Juggernaut spec in the game, and as it stands the Vengeance Tree past tier 2 is not viable for anyone truly seeking to be competitive in endgame PVP as a DPS class. The patch notes themselves confirm that.

 

(Rage Spec Jugg)

 

I can go into the math if needed in another post but for now this will have to be enough. 90% of your damage output comes from force damage, particularly due to the crit multiplier and dark resonance bonus. Furthermore, Smash & Force Scream is where you derive a great majority of that force damage. Force Alacrity 3 seconds is trivial for forcechoke, forcepush and not a huge deal for forcecrush (though negated with the CD reduction to 18 come 1.2) for Smash and Force Scream its quite huge. Final - Initial / Initial to calculate the % difference is an easy way to show that. The reduced Casting time of smash from 15 to 12 is important to note so you analyze the situation appropriately.

 

12-9/9 = 33.33% increase in casting time. Smash

12-9/9 = 33.33% increase in casting time. Force Scream

 

This means if 90% of our damage comes from Force, and 80% of that from those 2 moves. .9 * .8 = .72 * .333 = 23.76% damage reduction approximation.

 

 

The reality is yes as others have pointed out there is a 20-15/15 = 33.33% increase in the duration of both the 100% critical strike opportunity of smash derived from the obliterate and charge as well as a 33.33% increase in the duration of the shockwave, with additional means to generate shockwave stacks from enrage, which is a huge boon for the Juggernaut, and I would never argue otherwise. To do so would be admittance of lack of understanding on how to play my class. The rate determining step though is not the Shockwave, it is the casting time on your 2 highest burst damage abilities. Why do I say that. The reality is in PVP, you can ensure 3 full shockwaves rotations, and almost infinite 100% criticals from dominate with Obliterate/Force Charge. Therefore sometimes you have shockwave management issues but its few and far between in fluid pvp (stuns, knockbacks, deaths, roots, cc, etc), rage management and move CD are your 2 most important issues respectively, the first being easily addressed. Therefore, it sounds great to buff the 15 second duration by what appears to be in proportion to the increase of the casting time of the moves themselves, in actuality it is anything but.

 

It is excessive and wasteful, the only thing we need is the buff to enrage that now grants shockwave instead of additional rage, that will give Juggernauts all they need to truly balance the shockwave management issue.

 

I would gladly give up all the improvements to the shockwave/Crit timers in exchange to keep force alacrity in the game. It is the single most important change to our class.

 

(Vicious slash is no different than uninteruptble ravage....or vengeance spec, its noise. Mathematically a waste. )

 

Between Global Cooldown and move rotation you can fluidly rotate your moves with occasional times of deadspots. If these changes go through, Juggernauts will lose much of their viability come endgame rated PVP. This will be seen after the initial burst from their first engagement. They just cannot keep up the pressure on the healers to be a viable threat. Juggs will still be viable but not on the level they once were, with no survivability to compensate that damage reduction.

 

It does not matter that the buffs stay on longer, rarely is that an issue, it is sustainable DPS and rage efficiency that matter, and utilizing free Crit Forcescreams that hit 2500-3500 a pop at 9 second clips and multi targetted AE at 2700-5500 is how we keep the engine running with supplemental secondary moves thrown in.

 

 

I can effectively tank in my tank gear as an OT but I cannot Maintank adequately specd in Rage, or any spec outside of Immortal to be honest. The reality is to maintank as a Juggernaut in High End Content you must be immortal spec so I do not think you can really call Juggernaut a pure tank class by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I hope someone who can make real decisions reads this and furthermore those who are serious endgame pvp DPS Juggernauts voice their support.

 

I would wholeheartedly give up any buffs to my shockwave and crit timer to keep the reduced timers on Force Scream & Smash to maintain my viability in PVP.

 

-Grimaldi, Leader of Blood Pact

 

That's a well thought out and articulated rebuttal. I see your points and don't necessarily disagree, but I believe the other additions matter more than you're suggesting. We'll just see after the patch I guess, I still believe overall DPS will go up.

[LordKyrone]

A lot of people dont see why you would go Jugg instead of Mara, well four easy medals that Mara cannot get is one thing, the second is huttball.

 

Force push to refresh charge and intercede are amazing utility for this mode, plus being able to redirect damage even as a DPS spec really helps your allies, it is a team game especially when Ranked comes out, I run both and I am very much looking forward to these changes, potentially it will boost both, just got to be smart with your specs.

[Dee-Jay]

The OP is simply wrong if he thinks patch 1.2 is in any way a buff to Rage DPS.

 

The proc duration increase was necessary since we can only consume the procc every 12 seconds now (instead of every 9 seconds as before). The same applies to Scream, our second big hitter.

 

Increasing the procc uptime doesn't actually increase our DPS, it just makes it more convenient to perform.

[Xerain]

^ That is correct, sir. It no longer makes sense to go Jug rather than Marauder if one wishes to have a rage build. I suppose one could argue that the rage jug has more utility with intercede, guards and taunt, but I don't think this makes up for the increased DPS from a Marauder.

 

This is a nerf to the Jug class.

 

yeah because making people do 30% less damage to your healer with taunt isn't valuable as hell in a warzone...

 

oh you can sit in guard stance and guard that healer the whole time too now... what a shame about that. Guard + Healer = one of the most broken things in this game.

[MasterMaL]

Force alacrity being removed = huge huge huge nerf to rage juggs dps. This alone will make the class weaker. Nothing else to be said if 1.2 goes live like this Juggs will be replaced by mara completly.

 

Smash and force scream is the 2 strongest and most used skill by a rage jugg and their cooldown is getting increased by 33% each.

[MasterMaL]

I am a Full BM Rage Juggernaut who leads a top PVP guild on Hedaar Soongh. I have Rakata Tank and DPS sets, as well as Columi. I say this not to brag but to give my credentials. I would consider myself one of the best juggernauts on my server who consistently does top damage every warzone, rarely out of the top 2.

 

 

With Full battlemaster gear, I only have 15600 HP. Furthermore, I have Saber Ward as my only real damage mitigation ability endemic to my class. A DPS geared and specd Juggernaut does not have high survivability, to be honest a DPS Mercenary has more HP. The AC merely offsets the HP differential. So for this conversation we should take the premise that a DPS Rage Juggernaut is indeed a DPS class and more importantly the most viable DPS Juggernaut spec in the game, and as it stands the Vengeance Tree past tier 2 is not viable for anyone truly seeking to be competitive in endgame PVP as a DPS class. The patch notes themselves confirm that.

 

(Rage Spec Jugg)

 

I can go into the math if needed in another post but for now this will have to be enough. 90% of your damage output comes from force damage, particularly due to the crit multiplier and dark resonance bonus. Furthermore, Smash & Force Scream is where you derive a great majority of that force damage. Force Alacrity 3 seconds is trivial for forcechoke, forcepush and not a huge deal for forcecrush (though negated with the CD reduction to 18 come 1.2) for Smash and Force Scream its quite huge. Final - Initial / Initial to calculate the % difference is an easy way to show that. The reduced Casting time of smash from 15 to 12 is important to note so you analyze the situation appropriately.

 

12-9/9 = 33.33% increase in casting time. Smash

12-9/9 = 33.33% increase in casting time. Force Scream

 

This means if 90% of our damage comes from Force, and 80% of that from those 2 moves. .9 * .8 = .72 * .333 = 23.76% damage reduction approximation.

 

 

The reality is yes as others have pointed out there is a 20-15/15 = 33.33% increase in the duration of both the 100% critical strike opportunity of smash derived from the obliterate and charge as well as a 33.33% increase in the duration of the shockwave, with additional means to generate shockwave stacks from enrage, which is a huge boon for the Juggernaut, and I would never argue otherwise. To do so would be admittance of lack of understanding on how to play my class. The rate determining step though is not the Shockwave, it is the casting time on your 2 highest burst damage abilities. Why do I say that. The reality is in PVP, you can ensure 3 full shockwaves rotations, and almost infinite 100% criticals from dominate with Obliterate/Force Charge. Therefore sometimes you have shockwave management issues but its few and far between in fluid pvp (stuns, knockbacks, deaths, roots, cc, etc), rage management and move CD are your 2 most important issues respectively, the first being easily addressed. Therefore, it sounds great to buff the 15 second duration by what appears to be in proportion to the increase of the casting time of the moves themselves, in actuality it is anything but.

 

It is excessive and wasteful, the only thing we need is the buff to enrage that now grants shockwave instead of additional rage, that will give Juggernauts all they need to truly balance the shockwave management issue.

 

I would gladly give up all the improvements to the shockwave/Crit timers in exchange to keep force alacrity in the game. It is the single most important change to our class.

 

(Vicious slash is no different than uninteruptble ravage....or vengeance spec, its noise. Mathematically a waste. )

 

Between Global Cooldown and move rotation you can fluidly rotate your moves with occasional times of deadspots. If these changes go through, Juggernauts will lose much of their viability come endgame rated PVP. This will be seen after the initial burst from their first engagement. They just cannot keep up the pressure on the healers to be a viable threat. Juggs will still be viable but not on the level they once were, with no survivability to compensate that damage reduction.

 

It does not matter that the buffs stay on longer, rarely is that an issue, it is sustainable DPS and rage efficiency that matter, and utilizing free Crit Forcescreams that hit 2500-3500 a pop at 9 second clips and multi targetted AE at 2700-5500 is how we keep the engine running with supplemental secondary moves thrown in.

 

 

I can effectively tank in my tank gear as an OT but I cannot Maintank adequately specd in Rage, or any spec outside of Immortal to be honest. The reality is to maintank as a Juggernaut in High End Content you must be immortal spec so I do not think you can really call Juggernaut a pure tank class by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I hope someone who can make real decisions reads this and furthermore those who are serious endgame pvp DPS Juggernauts voice their support.

 

I would wholeheartedly give up any buffs to my shockwave and crit timer to keep the reduced timers on Force Scream & Smash to maintain my viability in PVP.

 

-Grimaldi, Leader of Blood Pact

 

This this and this. Dont change anything about jugg if you are taking out force alacrity... its the only thing that make us keep up in dmg with other dps class. And No a rage jugg cant tank anything its squishy as hell. Yeah taunt is good, but just focus him for a sec and hes done for.

[syncronius]

its been said a 100 times before and i cant agree more.... u -juggs- choose a 'tank' class at lvl 10, if u want a 'dps' class, roll another and stop the complaining that ur dps is not up to par with 'dps' classes or that u dont have enough survivability.

 

why did u go jugg at lvl 10 anyway??? probly not because u thought 1 saber looks better then 2 sabers right? No, because u WANTED TO BE A TANK!!!!

 

U want a better dps tree? Fine, give marauders a tank tree and the ability to wear heavy armor with defense stats and we'll call it even.

[MasterMaL]

its been said a 100 times before and i cant agree more.... u -juggs- choose a 'tank' class at lvl 10, if u want a 'dps' class, roll another and stop the complaining that ur dps is not up to par with 'dps' classes or that u dont have enough survivability.

 

why did u go jugg at lvl 10 anyway??? probly not because u thought 1 saber looks better then 2 sabers right? No, because u WANTED TO BE A TANK!!!!

 

U want a better dps tree? Fine, give marauders a tank tree and the ability to wear heavy armor with defense stats and we'll call it even.

 

Powertech can go spec tank and can taunt AND they can also do 900k+ dmg in a warzone WHEN SPECED DPS aka 0 defensive items stats or cooldowns, same thing should be true for jugg. IF you go tank and use the stance where you can guard people you will simply do no dmg at all as a jugg.

 

Dps tree = squishy as others and dps as others

tank tree = tanky and guard people with low dps

 

Also heavy armor, medium armor or even light armor doesnt change anything. Full epic heavy armor = 30 % dmg reduce while light = about 18%.... big deal

makes sense?

Edited March 20, 2012 by MasterMaL