Sorcerer Heals have been oob nerfed for 1.2

[Mattsums]

--Corruption--

-Force Bending no longer unintentionally allows its buff to be applied to more than one healing ability. Its effects have been slightly redesigned. It now increases the critical chance of Dark Heal by 60% and reduces the Force cost of Dark Infusion by 30%.

-Conspiring Force now refreshes properly when Affliction is refreshed.

-Fadeout now requires Efficacious Currents instead of Dark Resilience.

-Force Surge no longer removes the health cost from Consumption.

-Revivification's tooltip now correctly states that the ability affects a maximum of 8 targets. The ability's functionality hasn't changed.

-A display issue that caused the first and second tick of Revivification to appear on top of each other has been corrected.

 

 

 

 

I understand that they had to fix the Force Bending problem.. obviously... but they have COMPLETELY changed the way sorcs will heal in both pvp and pve. It has gone past a nerf and completely changed the mechanics of a sorc healer altogether. No more fast casting dark infusion, and consumption will eat our health now. maybe im just qq here but this means relearning this class as a healer..

 

While I feel the PvE changes to an extent can be managed, it seems we are all but ruined in PvP... Thoughts?

Edited March 17, 2012 by Mattsums

[verfallen]

I'm not quite ready to tear my shirt on a public space yet.

 

Dark heal will now crit pretty much every time, so while you do lose a bit of spike healing, you gain a constant cheap powerful heal on a 2,5 sec cast, and a very high criting one on a 1,5 sec cast.

 

Force Surge change is a bit of an inconvenience, but in PvE, that SHOULD be the only damage you take, and it makes the lowering of the health cost a valuable Talent to invest in. It doesn't effectively change your ressource pool.

 

I feel the change to Dark Infusion might be a bit unnecessary, but thy did make Dark Heal valuable again, and I'll wait to see the change live before crying about it.

 

Remember you can keep 2 targets under Dark Resurgence at any time. In a party, this means the tank and you. That fix the consumption issue imo.

 

But basically, your spike healing is now Dark Resurgence->Dark Heal->Innervate.

 

You can also time the bubble for burst rather than brainlessly cast it as soon as the tank has the 20 sec debuff on.

 

So yeh, not quite at a crying point.

[Riggz]

Honestly I don't know why everyone is in an uproar (not this thread obviously). You guys have been overpowered compared to Mercs and operatives

 

However go to IA forums and I've always said sorc healing doesn't need a nerf but everyone else needs to be on your level

 

But come on guys, I've been kicked out of nightmare ops simply because a sorc whispered the lead and said he wanted to go. When that happens it isn't acceptable

 

Operative healing had been in the gutter for along time and now we're on top - you just have to take the nerf bat and move on

 

I'm sure the nerf bat will hit operative healing square in the jaw someday too

[Daellia]

Force Surge change is a bit of an inconvenience, but in PvE, that SHOULD be the only damage you take, and it makes the lowering of the health cost a valuable Talent to invest in. It doesn't effectively change your ressource pool.

 

Apparently you've not raided very much. There aren't many "patchwerk" style fights in the game, nearly every fight involves at least a moderate amount of unavoidable AoE, raid-wide, or random-target damage.

 

What's of interest to me, however, is that this actually makes Endurance a bad stat for PvE Sorc healers.

[amaranthee]

Question: How am I supposed to get mana back in a PvP now? This talent is 100% useless now in any pvp situation. Sorc healers will oom incredibly fast with no way to get force back in pvp combat. And quite honestly hastened dark infusion was like, my main heal too. It was a quick big heal for pvp.

 

Sorc healers = useless in pvp now. We're super squishy as it is, we'll oom incredibly fast, and we'll not have a quick big emergency heal.

Edited March 17, 2012 by amaranthee

[Mattsums]

Yeah alot of my concern is PvP related. PvE is taking a hit from this, but it is something that is more manageable considering the nature of it.

 

However in PvP I am certain I will see a drastic decrease in overall healing done, and personal survivability.

 

Another problem I see is with Recklessness. It only affects direct heals, which are DI and DH. Considering we will now have an increased crit chance via Forcebending on DH there would never be a situation to use Recklessness with it (crit would be well over 100%) Therefor the only applicable spell to use it on is DI, which is slow now. If someone is low, ESPECIALLY in pvp, they need that jump fast, and 2.5 seconds isnt gonna cut it.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Mattsums

[amaranthee]

Yeah alot of my concern is PvP related. PvE is taking a hit from this, but it is something that is more manageable considering the nature of it.

 

However in PvP I am certain I will see a drastic decrease in overall healing done, and personal survivability.

 

Another problem I see is with Recklessness. It only affects direct heals, which are DI and DH. Considering we will now have an increased crit chance via Forcebending on DH there would never be a situation to use Recklessness with it (crit would be well over 100%) Therefor the only applicable spell to use it on is DI, which is slow now. If someone is low, ESPECIALLY in pvp, they need that jump fast, and 2.5 seconds isnt gonna cut it.

 

100% agree. I feel like they weren't even considering PvP at ALL when they did these nerfs, as they are probably easily manageble in PvE (other healers there to heal you up, many aoe heals to stand in, etc.). Not only are we squishy as hell in PvP, now we'll just oom really quick and we won't be able to heal people with big heals quickly anymore. Right now I'm at a 2.2 second cast for DI and it's still WAY too slow in any PvP situation, if I want it to be effective at all I have to have that haste effect. Dark heal is too small of a heal to be effective at healing someone who is getting trucked, that leaves me with a HoT, Innervate, and shield which are ALL on CD's.

 

PvP is what I liked doing the best and I bet sorcs will probably be the worst PvP healers now. Our squishiness was our trade-off for big heals, and now we don't have big heals. So *** do we have in PvP now?

Edited March 17, 2012 by amaranthee

[Mattsums]

I feel that the bread and butter of my heals in PvP come from fast casting my DI or DI with recklessness if the situation is dire.

 

The shield is the only viable means of attempting to save someone with low health now, and it doesn't typically absorb damage long enough for me to cast something that takes 2.5 seconds.

 

Recklessness itself has been reduced to a random, situational at best, ability.

 

Endurance is also rendered as harmful because of the Consumption change. Since it is percentage based, it would be more beneficial to have lower hp so that this mandatory health you will be losing every 9 or so seconds doesn't hurt too much.

[Orici]

Check my post history... ive been a cheerleader for this game since launch.

 

I level slowly (i have my lvl 50 sorc and a lvl 24 Trooper) to really learn my class. I dont like having to re-learn it. Some changes were needed, making me an easy kill in PvP wasnt.

 

I have a 6-month going, after thats over, yes you can have my stuff.

[Hamatula]

It's a nerf to pvp healing...

[Joretur]

It's a nerf to pvp healing...

 

That has serious impact on PvE healing...once again nerfing PvE for PvP. For the record I do both

[Nickoa]

riggz go QQ about your OP not being overpowerd more! play a sorc and see how they really are buddy.... or learn to play yours... as for bioware.. you might rethink the force cost and healing amount of dark heal and make it a bit more effienct

[AshlaBoga]

For PvE this isn't that bad. As a sorc I've done HM BT, Battle of Illum, False Emperor, HM False Emperor, Kaon under Siege, and normal/easy Eternity Vault.

 

If you have 3/3 Sith Efficacy + 1/1 Madness then use can use Force Lightning and crushing darkness when no one needs a heal.

 

As group healer i primarily use Lightning Shield + Force Purge (physical is a must) and then use resurgence (for force bending) before healing someone.

 

I don't think Force Surge is the best ability - sure consumption not costing you as much health is good, but I generally manage to heal without running out of my 600/600.

 

The real issue is against something like Hard Mode Soa - I haven't done EV HM yet and now I really want get it done before 1.2 comes out.

[TheToxicWaltz]

I kinda figured some nerfs were coming to the sorc class. My main is a sorc and I was willing to admit this class was OP. There is definitely going to be a bit of a learning curve associated with these changes, as reactionary burst heals is really taking a hit. I normally do raid heals for our 16 man HM and NiM raids, so the hits to burst heals is really going to hurt. The reduction of force cost to DI should help resource management some, but the much slower cast aint gonna help much. Glad to see they arent changing innervate as I use that as my main heal. Especially for raids, the cost of consumption shouldnt be TOO terrible (just got to be smart when to use it, IE avoid using it right before eating SOAs lightning balls) as with raid heals, there should almost always be a revivification laid down. IDK, I still think they swung the nerf bat too hard, but hopefully with the two months in the PTR, they'll reduce the severity. Edited March 19, 2012 by TheToxicWaltz

[Taroen]

Check my post history... ive been a cheerleader for this game since launch.

 

I level slowly (i have my lvl 50 sorc and a lvl 24 Trooper) to really learn my class. I dont like having to re-learn it. Some changes were needed, making me an easy kill in PvP wasnt.

 

I have a 6-month going, after thats over, yes you can have my stuff.

 

I'm starting to feel the same way.

 

I've been an ardent fan of this game for a long time, and now I feel like Bioware is showing just how novice they are with over-reaching changes. I don't want to see radical class remakes with every patch. If I wanted to play a different class, I wouldn't have rolled the one I'm currently playing. For the record, I have rolled every AC in the game to at least 25 (except for assassin and shadow which was to 16 or so) and have three 50s. I like most of the classes in this game.

 

But I won't be hanging around if Bioware's notion of creating class balance is to over-correct and then re-correct and radically change class mechanics every couple of months.

[generalsanmai]

100% agree. I feel like they weren't even considering PvP at ALL when they did these nerfs...

 

What do you mean? PVP is probably the ONLY reason they made this change. Now Sorcs and Sages wont have an infinite force pool, and can actually be worn down.

[LordBilll]

What do you mean? PVP is probably the ONLY reason they made this change. Now Sorcs and Sages wont have an infinite force pool, and can actually be worn down.

 

ok, but in PVE sorc healers need Force back, i think can make different stats for PVP and PVE.

When a player entered to WZ, or go to PVP area (Ilum, tatuin open word pvp area....) change stat. On this way can balance in PVP but don't kill a class in PVE.

[NyQuilFast]

I don't see this having to big of a consequences in PvP, as i have played heals in pvp for a month now and i can honestly say 9/10 times i am killed before my force becomes a problem or an issue of concern. However in PvE this will have a huge impact, I run Hard/Nightmare mode often and as is i barely walk away with 100 force IF things go according to plane and <50 if **** hits fan. After the change I don't know if it will even be possible to last out the full fight before hitting 0.

 

Anyway here's the new healing tree after change...

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GGrRrd0dhzZf00MZ0M.1

Sith Sorcerer (Sith Inquisitor) (31/7/2) +1

[Blotter]

What do you mean? PVP is probably the ONLY reason they made this change. Now Sorcs and Sages wont have an infinite force pool, and can actually be worn down.

 

In other words, we can now NEVER win a 1v1 with a similarly geared member of the other class. The ONLY way before was to get lucky and win a battle of attrition...our heals and low dps trying to slowly wear down someone who was doing burst dmg up the wazoo. With 1.2, it's "OOF and poof" because anyone that still uses Consumption during a 1v1 situation will be just doing your job for you.

 

I speak in terms of 1v1 above because obviously, with focus-fire from several sources, we will now only last long enough to "OOF and poof" even faster. If they're smart, they don't even kill us...just leave us with <15% health and OOF and then leave us to go suicide in order to regain a full force bar without the regeneration debuffs associated with Consumption. This of course puts us behind the timed lockout barrier doing zero heals for our team....just like running around OOF after a focus fire would do.

 

So essentially, BW has said the following about healer PvP:

 

(1) healers should not be able to kill anyone because we give them sloppy second kills from whoever they're healing...so under no circumstances should they be able to enjoy a kill of their own unless they steal the last blow...1v1 is out of the question because healers should be easy squishy-kill taget dummies there for the enjoyment of the dps classes smart enough to focus-fire them;

 

(2) healers should only be able to heal themselves through everyone else's superior dps for a very very short time until they go OOF, and then they should get beaten like a runaway sister wife without being able to do anything about it whatsoever beacuse they have no resources left; and

 

(3) healers should be spark plugs, not batteries, i.e., they should run out on the PvP field, cast a couple quick heals on themselves while being focus fired and then go OOF (or overheat) without any really viable way to regain their power, and then basically be able to do absolutely nothing at all until something kills them or until they suicide to get their force bar back, because healers need to spend waaaay more time behind the timed lockout barrier as yet another way of nerfing their healing for their team.

[pathiss]

I don't see this having to big of a consequences in PvP, as i have played heals in pvp for a month now and i can honestly say 9/10 times i am killed before my force becomes a problem or an issue of concern.

 

You don't play in PvP nearly enough against competent enemies if you don't understand the impact that the sorcerer changes have in that environment. Sorcerers are already incredibly easy to completely shut down with proper cycling of interrupts and cc. Making infusion always use the longer cast timer alone will neuter the class.

 

For the record, merc healers are going to be worthless as well in competitive play.

[pathiss]

What do you mean? PVP is probably the ONLY reason they made this change. Now Sorcs and Sages wont have an infinite force pool, and can actually be worn down.

 

A sorc healer was already easy points for anyone with an interrupt and half a brain. They excelled against random bad puggers, but were way too easy to shut down / kill against people that that know what they are doing.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Arzhanin
Rude comments

[MistrAwesome]

If you have 3/3 Sith Efficacy + 1/1 Madness then use can use Force Lightning and crushing darkness when no one needs a heal.

 

As group healer i primarily use Lightning Shield + Force Purge (physical is a must) and then use resurgence (for force bending) before healing someone.

 

I don't think Force Surge is the best ability - sure consumption not costing you as much health is good, but I generally manage to heal without running out of my 600/600.

 

The real issue is against something like Hard Mode Soa - I haven't done EV HM yet and now I really want get it done before 1.2 comes out.

 

Ok, everything you said after the part about what talents you have is completely irrelevant because, well... Why the EFF are you 14 points up into madness as a healer?

 

Also, anyone who theorycrafts at all will realize these nerfs are TOTALLY ILLOGICAL.

 

As far as healing efficiency goes, dark heal is so ****** I don't even have it on my bars. Making it crit more often (but still with that chance it WONT crit) doesnt do anything at all. With all my cooldowns and no buffs, dark heal crits for 3500, while dark infusion HITS, with no buffs or cooldowns, for 3400.

 

Basically, the changes BW made makes it almost impossible for us to recover from damage spikes because Dark Infusion takes too long to cast to hope for a high crit, while dark heal doesnt heal enough on a crit to efficiently recover from the spike in damage. We are stuck in a quandary because no matter what heal we choose to use, it's the wrong one. One one hand we miss getting the heal off because we are casting too long and target dies, while on the other, our heal isn't strong enough to save the target from the damage spike.

 

I'm not even going to talk about the Force Surge/Consumption nerfs because those are so obviously illogical there is nothing to support that decision.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[MistrAwesome]

Ok, I would like to add to the whole Consumption issue. Before I decide that a nerf is totally unnecessary I come up with reasons as to why the change was made.

 

Literally, the only thing I can come up with for this Consumption stuff is that by also reducing force cost of Dark Infusion, they feel that they are making Consumption no longer a standard part of healing rotation and that desire to hit Consumption at every chance will be mitigated by the necessity of needing to spend a little bit of force to recover the lost health.

 

But of course, this reason is still stupid. Forcing us to heal ourselves as the counter to our very useful force recovery ability as a solution to our excellent resource management compared to other healers is just cop out and unimaginative. It just wastes time.

 

Before any of you decide you really know what you are talking about and say something dumb like, "Dude, just HoT yourself or stand in your AoE," I ask that you raid nightmare mode content and do a little theorycrafting.

 

To start, we have this little talent called Reconstruct that gives your target 10% extra armor when you cast Resurgence. So any of you that would use your only HoT on yourself to recover lost health from Consumption instead of giving to, oh I don't know, YOUR TANK, need to do some reading.

 

Now, to address the whole AoE argument. I turn again to theorycrafting. Looking at efficiency values calculated by many a sorcerer thread has come to determine that using Revivification is a complete waste of force unless you are healing, I think 6 people without Force Bending, or 4 people with Force Bending. Anyone may correct the # of people, but the point remains, you wouldn't use it JUST to recover consumption health loss.

 

Please BioWare, hire an endgame player from each class/role that knows the ins and outs of playing as consultants to your obviously misguided dev team so that you do not do such senseless things in the future.

Edited March 21, 2012 by MistrAwesome

[Kongster]

Ok, I would like to add to the whole consumption issue. Before I decide that a nerf is totally unnecessary I come up with reasons as to why the change was made.

 

Literally, the only thing I can come up with for this consumption stuff is that by also reducing force cost of dark heal, they feel they are offsetting our force gain from consumption with the force saved from force cost reductions.

 

But of course, this reason is still stupid. Forcing us to heal ourselves as a solution to our excellent resource management compared to other healers is just cop out and unimaginative. It just wastes time.

 

Before any of you decide you really know what you are talking about and say something dumb like, "Dude, just HoT yourself or stand in your aoe," I ask that you raid nightmare mode content and do a little theorycrafting.

 

To start, we have this little talent called Reconstruct that gives your target 10% extra armor when you cast Resurgence. So any of you that would use your only HoT on yourself to recover lost health from Consumption instead of giving to, oh I don't know, YOUR TANK, need to do some reading.

 

Now, to address the whole AoE argument. I turn again to theorycrafting. Looking at efficiency values calculated by many a sorcerer thread has come to determine that using revivification is a complete waste of force unless you are healing, I think 6 people without Force Bending, or 4 people with Force Bending. Anyone may correct the # of people, but the point remains, you wouldn't use it JUST to recover consumption health loss.

 

Please BioWare, hire an endgame player from each class/role that knows the ins and outs of playing as consultants to your obviously misguided dev team so that you do not do such senseless things in the future.

 

 

 

*First bump bro. I completely agree with you here.

 

The 1st thing that pops in my head is, whether BioWare actually attempted to run the HM/NiM raids numerous times, or whether they're even capable enough to attempt the content. As healers, we try our very best to avoid any unnecessary damage so we can focus on keeping the party up. Consumption's health reduction isn't going to help us much. I feel that it's only fair as a healer to be able to regenerate Force without taking damage, since our focus should be healing the party and not ourselves. Granted, we have to pop a few heals on ourselves due to unavoidable damages, but that should be all there is we have to take. If you take damage from standing in AoE circles then you need to work on your skills as a player.

 

2nd issue is that 2.5s for a bomb heal is too harsh. I feel that we should stick with the 1sec DI reduction proc. Honestly Force was never an issue for me given the current Force cost of DI. With proper consumption, you should not have problems sustaining, even if including some "Oh ****" moments.

 

So yes, I agree that BioWare should hire well-known and decent players who are known to be great healers to act as a consultant. Instead of being swayed by people with absolutely no idea what they are saying on forums. Sorry, but that is the truth.

 

 

 

 

Xylas - Lv50 Corruption Sorcerer - Rakata Mind Prison

[antshock]

*First bump bro. I completely agree with you here.

 

The 1st thing that pops in my head is, whether BioWare actually attempted to run the HM/NiM raids numerous times, or whether they're even capable enough to attempt the content. As healers, we try our very best to avoid any unnecessary damage so we can focus on keeping the party up. Consumption's health reduction isn't going to help us much. I feel that it's only fair as a healer to be able to regenerate Force without taking damage, since our focus should be healing the party and not ourselves. Granted, we have to pop a few heals on ourselves due to unavoidable damages, but that should be all there is we have to take. If you take damage from standing in AoE circles then you need to work on your skills as a player.

 

2nd issue is that 2.5s for a bomb heal is too harsh. I feel that we should stick with the 1sec DI reduction proc. Honestly Force was never an issue for me given the current Force cost of DI. With proper consumption, you should not have problems sustaining, even if including some "Oh ****" moments.

 

So yes, I agree that BioWare should hire well-known and decent players who are known to be great healers to act as a consultant. Instead of being swayed by people with absolutely no idea what they are saying on forums. Sorry, but that is the truth.

 

 

 

 

Xylas - Lv50 Corruption Sorcerer - Rakata Mind Prison

 

bump on tht bro!!!!