1.2 - Combat Medic - Major Nerfs

[Daecollo]

unsubbed as well, not resubbing.

 

I won't resub unless they increase the heal amount of trauma probe by 200% or remove the ammo cost.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Daecollo

[Windaube]

I'm just...

 

Just...

 

 

I can't express my anger about this combat medic nerf, i don't want to insult.

 

Shame on you Bioware.

[Daecollo]

My new healing spec after changes

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300dfMZrIkrRrd0kbz.1

 

 

Kolto Shell is USELESS after the changes.

 

If your going to make Kolto Shell cost Heat.

 

IMPROVE THE HEALING significantly (150%.)

Make it only usable on more then one target.

 

 

OR

 

Lower cost of ammo to 1.

Increase healing by 75%.

Make it usable on more then one target.

 

OR

 

Add Talents to lower its cost to 0/raise its heal amount.

 

Or... Switch Out Kolto Shell and our Endline...

Edited March 19, 2012 by Daecollo

[TUXs]

Yes, because increased stats on top tier gear and the augments on crit-crafted gear (ie not available to new players) is a logical reason to nerf the entire class, even those still leveling and fresh to 50.

 

You had difficulty leveling? Or are you having difficulty doing your daily quests at 50?

[Sukir]

You had difficulty leveling? Or are you having difficulty doing your daily quests at 50?

 

Don't know if your a troll or just blind.

 

That i know of patch will bring

 

New Tier of Gear, New Tier of Ops

 

New tier of Ops will have bosses with MORE dmg and MORE Health

 

The correct reasoning is NERF Healing so that it will be harder instead of tuning boss dmg or the New Tier of Gear.

 

I wonder why didnt they nerf DPS across the board to make enrage timers harder...

 

Fail Logic is Fail

 

Ps: If you dont think those nerfs are pvp based then you never played a combat medic in both PvP and PvE

[RuQu]

You had difficulty leveling? Or are you having difficulty doing your daily quests at 50?

 

Stop for one moment and think about someone who isnt you.

 

Try and imagine a new Combat Medic.

 

Right now, many leveling medics complain about efficiency problems before they get Field Triage. Right now the answer is "wait til you get Field Triage and Trauma Probe. It gets better." That answer no longer applicable.

 

By your logic, this is fine because it is balanced in Rakata+ gear and by the new augments.

 

How exactly are new Combat Medics supposed to get that Rakata+ gear?

 

Your logic is not only flawed, it is outright stupid, and I don't tend to say that often because I think insults have no place in arguments. That idea, nerfing a class across the board to offset top-tier gear and therefore putting a giant hurdle in the way of those who didn't get Rakata gear pre-nerf is downright idiotic.

[TUXs]

Stop for one moment and think about someone who isnt you.

 

Try and imagine a new Combat Medic.

 

Right now, many leveling medics complain about efficiency problems before they get Field Triage. Right now the answer is "wait til you get Field Triage and Trauma Probe. It gets better." That answer no longer applicable.

 

By your logic, this is fine because it is balanced in Rakata+ gear and by the new augments.

 

How exactly are new Combat Medics supposed to get that Rakata+ gear?

 

Your logic is not only flawed, it is outright stupid, and I don't tend to say that often because I think insults have no place in arguments. That idea, nerfing a class across the board to offset top-tier gear and therefore putting a giant hurdle in the way of those who didn't get Rakata gear pre-nerf is downright idiotic.

 

That wasn't my logic at all, that is simply YOU reading parts of what I've said. Since you so freely felt the urge to insult me, without understanding my position, I find it difficult to believe it's out of character for you.

 

This is BALANCE pass to the entire game. PvE is too easy (0-50 with few exceptions), PvP has been too dominated by massive healing numbers, DPS is off the charts for some classes and Ops aren't even a challenge with 2 decent healers. Bioware NEEDED to get these things under control.

 

A re-balancing was needed - these changes MAY be too much, especially for CM, but you're either a fool or you've never done an Operation if you think that this is ONLY because of PvP numbers!!! It ISN'T!

[Typheuss]

Just gonna tack my voice on as an another bit of confusion with this huge throughput healing nerf.

 

I purely PvP, I'm aware that we're one of the harder healers to kill. Personally I think this balances out fairly well with the degree to which we're shut down when focused (outside of when Reactive Shield is up - 8.33% uptime at the most), but that's irrelevant for this discussion.

 

The thing is, this nerf doesn't affect our survivability by much. We don't have too many ammo issues while being focused. Kolto Bomb on CD, BI on CD, keep TP up on self, and AMP -> MP, + fake casting. When that's not going on we're kiting/CCing. It's a small nerf against our Ammo, but not big enough to have big impact there.

 

The main PvP nerf is just that we'll be able to help our team, which is just a moronic way to try to balance PvP if this was the intent. We're roughly on par with healing throughput if I can gauge by the PvP score screen. So basically they don't nerf our survivability, they nerf our viability as a healer?

 

*Edit - I should say, if they rework our ammo mechanic a bit and increase regen rate, then all these complaints may go away. I can stomach the raw percentage decreases in most areas, just not the ammo nerfs.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Typheuss

[Dzhokhar]

That wasn't my logic at all

 

It was the logic that you used in the post that everybody's responding to.

[TUXs]

It was the logic that you used in the post that everybody's responding to.

 

And that post was directly replying to a person blaming JUST PvP. It's not JUST PvP or PvE...it's a BALANCE pass for BOTH.

[CYNDERBLOCK]

Opinion from a Tank,

 

So I am trying to understand this nerf... I know for a fact that when it comes to raids or PvP I would rather have a Sage healer over a Commando healer any day. Why? Because I see the

scoreboards and the numbers on me. A Commando in full Rakata (Which we have in our raid

group can crit for 4.5 to 5k healing. A Sage in the same raid group with T2 gear can crit for 6k... How does this make sense? And when I am in a WZ with my Commando and Sage healers, Sage will always top the charts... I don't understand why!? I am telling you, every Commando healer in our guild has either rerolled or started getting their DPS set because they know their class and they know what this nerf will mean to their abilities. I would just like to at least hear Bioware justify why they are making the nerf and what stats brought them to this decision.

[Ralphieokole]

I do find humor in some of these posts, especially when we turn on ourselves.

 

I mainly PvP, however did the OPs/ HM OPs (paired with a sage healer; we got a Scoundrel healer to take my spot before the NM modes).

 

To be accurate, I am extremely disappointed in the upcoming changes. There has been talk since beta about bettering our healing. Other than KB (which I don't think should be on par with 31 pt talents) and combat rez (seriously, 2 classes got it and it is on a timer, do you really need a third?), I thought CM was solid. We were the big boys that did the heavy lifting, while the finger wigglers & dudes in capes and tights took all the credit and put up the fancy numbers.

 

I really have been lucky in the sense that I have played with most of best pvp sages/ healing scoundrels on our server. The sages numbers almost always make mine look silly. Probably the highlight of my weekend, was talking to our sages, and they even said they couldn't believe the proposed changes to the CM.

 

Everyone plays this game differently, for different reasons, and everyone has an opinion. I am not all about hugging it out, but everyone needs to put their big boy pants on and lets get through this mess. We aren't the first class in this mmo that has been nerfed into the ground, and I guarantee we will not be the last.

 

PS Typheuss, I agree with you 100% on the ammo issue. Sorry for the edit, your post went up while I writing this.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Ralphieokole

[Leigabar]

Hello,

 

I have seen Mass Effect 3 ending... I see the nerfs and new ideas in 1.2 patch... Bioware what happend to You? Where are Your solid ideas? Do all pro stopped working there suddenly?

 

I'm astonisched. Not angry or disepointed just astonisched.

 

Oh well that was quite an adveture but all good things need to end eventually.

 

Bye!

[Setes]

Cancelled my sub! Tks bioware

[wainot-keel]

Hello,

 

I have seen Mass Effect 3 ending...

 

 

Did you have to remind me ?

 

I kind of took sanctuary on swtor for my gaming hours, but with ghosts servers and more nerfs for everybody to balance pvp, welll... not looking that good...

[RuQu]

Hello,

 

I have seen Mass Effect 3 ending... I see the nerfs and new ideas in 1.2 patch... Bioware what happend to You? Where are Your solid ideas? Do all pro stopped working there suddenly?

 

I'm astonisched. Not angry or disepointed just astonisched.

 

Oh well that was quite an adveture but all good things need to end eventually.

 

Bye!

 

I haven't finished it yet, or even really started it despite pre-ordering, but I keep seeing posts like this and, when coupled with the incompetence the SWTOR Devs are showing, I am terrified.

[Chuck_Diesel]

I just canceled my subscription. Let's see if BW gets the message.

[Soltrooper]

There's new gear coming that will increase ALL players stats. If they DIDN'T nerf things universally, there would be NO challenge in any PvE content.

 

Er, you don't nerf classes because new gear is coming. It means people cannot get to the new gear. What you do is make the new challenges require better gear.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Soltrooper

[HOCUHA]

Anyway i will finish playing SWTOR if any of this changes start working.

[FromAbove]

These nerfs are COMPLETELY warranted. Us healing Commando's are overpowered no matter how you put it. Full geared battlemaster players can't take me down and im in centurian / champion gear which should never be the case. We were weak in AoE healing which they decided to buff.

 

I agree with Bioware and these changes should really seperate the good Combat Medics from the bad. I look forward to the challenge!

 

The only contention I see you putting forward to support the idea that CMs are overpowered in PvP is that some or all fully-geared battlemasters can't take you down 1v1 in WZs. First of all, I don't agree with the idea that the gear gap should be so substantial that you should be surprised that a bad but persistent PvP player may not be able to take you out in spite of having better gear. Count that as one case in which it should happen that a CM should outlast a better geared player-- that the CM is just more skilled. Second, and I made this point in a post that was probably too long to be read by anyone, if a CM-- a heavily-armored single-target healer-- isn't supposed to be survivable, what is a CM supposed to be? If you're doing level-50 PvP, do you really want the gear gap to be so impossible to overcome that you literally cannot beat someone who just happens to have been playing longer than you? That isn't really a specific example, but count that as a general class of secondary examples-- 1v1 instances in which CMs aren't completely outclassed by the opponent's skill and are able to essentially force the fight into a draw simply by remaining alive. Third, if you're in a WZ situation and are being supported by buffs and heals from other players, AND you're healing yourself (but not moving, naturally, or dealing damage), why SHOULD you be dying? You're heavily-armored and can grant yourself damage shields. You may have been neutralized as an otherwise productive force, but being backed by team-support, it should take more than good gear to kill you.

 

We're still weak in AoE healing, which is fine, because that isn't the point of the class. I think CMs are largely doomed to have inferior healing stats as compared to Sages because of the single-target nature of our heals, but that's okay-- when you single-handedly yank a dying Sentinel from the edge of death, they tend to notice and appreciate it.

 

Incidentally, for those of you in certain places claiming to routinely fire off 400k worth of healing a game, I suspect you're either lying or only playing WZs in organized groups against other organized groups. If you can heal for 400k in a pug against scrubs, you must be using Jedi mind tricks to make people think they're hurt when really they aren't or finding a way to heal every single Rambo on your own team even from across the map.

 

CMs are not over-powered in PvP. We can be killed by players who intelligently use interrupts, by focused fire, by DoT stackers (because every time you have to clear the effects, you've just missed a heal), and by Huttball trap trickery. In 1v1s in which we're better and deserve to win, we nevertheless rarely win as quickly as a DPS would against inferior opposition. In 1v2s, we can survive longer than a lot of people, but we aren't going to win unless the two really, really suck. As a whole, we were actually probably just about fine-- which is why this nerf is so baffling if it's in response to PvP concerns.

 

For all the wah-wah-wah melee DPSers who can't kill combat medics-- get better, or pick smarter targets. 1v1ing the biggest guy in the room firing off heals, the guy (or lady, excuse me) who's also blasting death rays from a giant cannon, should sound like a bad idea on its face, shouldn't it?

Edited March 19, 2012 by FromAbove

[rayskanks]

I wish I could quote every reply on this thread. They're nerfing a healer that didn't even feel OP to begin with. The changes make me feel the class will be useless as a healer. Around 5 nerfs for 1 buff on the kolto bomb that isn't even that good.

[Arshamore]

I'm a scoundrel and I think this nerf is pretty ridiculous. I think the whole community can agree on this one.

[radishh]

Don't nerf us!

[Bluetickone]

I really want to be a fly on the wall in the BW office on Monday.

 

"What do you mean they didn't like the patch notes?"

 

"Did you hear anyone mention Legacy? Legacy anyone? Healers? No, this patch is about Legacy, I assume that was at least discussed....No?"

 

If I worked on any of the Operation, Flashpoint, Warzone, Legacy, or Crafting teams I would be strongly tempted to find whoever oversaw this healer beat-down and punch them in the throat.

 

Grats on completely overshadowing all the good work of your other teams with this concentrated dose of stupidity.

 

This sums it up nicely, simply astonishing that they put all this work into new ops/fps/wzs/armor/crafting/legacy and then gutted it all with nerfs to two of the most popular healing classes....simply astonishing.

[Dast]

This sums it up nicely, simply astonishing that they put all this work into new ops/fps/wzs/armor/crafting/legacy and then gutted it all with nerfs to two of the most popular healing classes....simply astonishing.

 

I dont think they care about healers, they figure subs will come back to try 1.2 and it wont matter that they alienated current healers. They will just get returning subs and maybe some new players from the trial.