1.2 - Combat Medic - Major Nerfs

[GySgtKerr]

Well, good news everyone. I've decided to level a Scoundrel for pvp/pve stuff, really enjoying the shotgun to the head thing. Anyways, been doing warzones for the past few night now and guess what? On average both sides have about 4+ Sent/Marauders on each side. So I've been thinking, 1.2 comes, a party of 8 sent/marauders which pretty much tears apart everything in its path, insta win? Edited April 6, 2012 by GySgtKerr

[Wardryan]

Im glad i came across this thread so it saves me wasting my time leveling a class that i already have trouble healing with to find out its getting nerfed to the ground, I wanted to roll a class that was not as common as the million sages i see a day. guess is back to the drawing board

 

Good job

 

would like my game time refunded for my troopers time played

[doppleprophet]

*sigh*

 

I just sub'd after the free trial weekend. I've been looking for an MMO since I left DAOC. I was a DAOC subscriber for years. I finally quit my beloved DAOC due to the heavy-handed nerfs that continued to come down from Mythic.

 

Now just when I think I have decided on a class which I might enjoy here, I discover more of the same going on which caused me to abandon DAOC. Is there any company that understands how their changes impact the playerbase??

 

 

---> Shifa

For Nimue !!

Edited April 9, 2012 by doppleprophet

[Blistrich]

I just sub'd after the free trial weekend. I've been looking for an MMO since I left DAOC. I was a DAOC subscriber for years. I finally quit my beloved DAOC due to the heavy-handed nerfs that continued to come down from Mythic.

 

Now just when I think I have decided on a class which I might enjoy here, I discover more of the same going on which caused me to abandon DAOC. Is there any company that understands how their changes impact the playerbase??

So many people "quit" Warcraft after the vanilla engame proved weak. More quit when the servers went down for whole weekends. Yet more wailed and moaned and shipped off to "greener pastures" (lol) when the lack of any PvP rewards dragged on month after month, and even the killcounters got annoying instead of gratifying.

 

That's because vanilla builds have problems. Universally. Across the board. Particularly when it comes to class balance. If you enjoy this game for what it is, I recommend maybe just doing something new instead of unsubbing because of the healing nerfs. It will all be something else when 1.3 hits. And lets face it, since no one who heals is really benefiting from this patch, it shouldn't impact group selection all that much.

 

Incidentally, DAoC had great 8-man. Yeah. But DAoC was an RvR game. It wasn't supposed to draw the carebears and the casuals. The PvE was an amazingly lackluster grind with the exception of dynamic environments like DF, and the classes were always unbalanced. Wardens were PBT /follow fodder from day one. The stealth classes got taken on one hell of a ride. And don't get me started on Champions and that fiasco. Mythic screwed up, but that doesn't mean you'll see the same mistakes here. You'll see different ones.

 

I quess what I'm trying to say is that it's still early. Have you ever played an mmo where this didn't happen? Seriously, name one that didn't come out of the box as, at best, a polished turd.

[Aaoogaa]

Looks like we get another week before 1.2 hits. 4/10 was supposed to be the release date...so for some reason it was pushed back. Lets hope it is to undo some of the nerfs to CM.

[doppleprophet]

Have you ever played an mmo where this didn't happen? Seriously, name one that didn't come out of the box as, at best, a polished turd.

 

That's why I asked the rhetorical (or ?) question at the end of my post. Is it not possible for some game company to comprehend that Nerfs as a method of balance-adjustment is not conducive to a happy, loyal playerbase? There are other--more creative, and less painful--ways to achieve balance.

 

I wouldn't be un-sub'ing due to a certain class getting nerfed. It would be because the company displays a propensity to faceroll customers. Been there, not interested.

 

I put up with it for years from Mythic because I really loved DAOC--the game world, the Norse lore, my mates, the RvR, the gameplay. What finally broke the deal was when they messed with my Hunter by changing the entire Archery mechanic, after like 5 years, from click-to-draw-->click-to-release, to click-to-fire like a DD caster holding a bow. What the --

 

So I'm admittedly sensitive about the way a company treats its subscribers. Didn't last long at Lotro or AoC. CoH is pretty solid but it couldn't keep me interested too far past the awesome char creation.

Edited April 9, 2012 by doppleprophet

[RuQu]

So many people "quit" Warcraft after the vanilla engame proved weak. More quit when the servers went down for whole weekends. Yet more wailed and moaned and shipped off to "greener pastures" (lol) when the lack of any PvP rewards dragged on month after month, and even the killcounters got annoying instead of gratifying.

 

That's because vanilla builds have problems. Universally. Across the board. Particularly when it comes to class balance. If you enjoy this game for what it is, I recommend maybe just doing something new instead of unsubbing because of the healing nerfs. It will all be something else when 1.3 hits. And lets face it, since no one who heals is really benefiting from this patch, it shouldn't impact group selection all that much.

 

Incidentally, DAoC had great 8-man. Yeah. But DAoC was an RvR game. It wasn't supposed to draw the carebears and the casuals. The PvE was an amazingly lackluster grind with the exception of dynamic environments like DF, and the classes were always unbalanced. Wardens were PBT /follow fodder from day one. The stealth classes got taken on one hell of a ride. And don't get me started on Champions and that fiasco. Mythic screwed up, but that doesn't mean you'll see the same mistakes here. You'll see different ones.

 

I quess what I'm trying to say is that it's still early. Have you ever played an mmo where this didn't happen? Seriously, name one that didn't come out of the box as, at best, a polished turd.

 

The market has matured and expects a more mature product.

 

I played WoW and SWG back in 2004 when they came out, and I preferred SWG despite the lack of any content besides the classes when it launched. It was both buggy and bare-bones, but many people liked it.

 

However, if they released either of those games now they would both flop. The market expects a more developed release product.

[SadieA]

I've played all 3 of the healer types and the Trooper/Bounty Hunter healers are by far the most difficult to heal with. I don't understand these nerfs, it's tough as is and it's being made much worse. It's severe and unwarranted. Combine that with not being able to use a significant part of the mechanic by not being able to Hammer Shot in pvp unless I wan't to die because there is a big green line drawn right to my character that says come kill me.

 

Theoretically, under optimal conditions a Trooper/BH can heal forever, but rarely are conditions ever optimal and it seems these changes are being made under that assumption.

 

Consular healing is EZ-mode and I refuse to continue to play my Scoundrel because the healing animations are garbage, so I've been putting my time into a Trooper healer and having a really rough time with it. I want to like it but it isn't fun and it's being made even less fun in 1.2 for some reason.

[Warkyd]

The healer nerf was needed, its not normal that a healer can outheal your DPS on 1v1 and then kill you.

Any dps, other then commandos/merc, that lost to a commando healer at 50 would lose to any level 50 with any spec.

[Nytak]

I've played all 3 of the healer types and the Trooper/Bounty Hunter healers are by far the most difficult to heal with. I don't understand these nerfs, it's tough as is and it's being made much worse. It's severe and unwarranted. Combine that with not being able to use a significant part of the mechanic by not being able to Hammer Shot in pvp unless I wan't to die because there is a big green line drawn right to my character that says come kill me.

 

Theoretically, under optimal conditions a Trooper/BH can heal forever, but rarely are conditions ever optimal and it seems these changes are being made under that assumption.

 

Consular healing is EZ-mode and I refuse to continue to play my Scoundrel because the healing animations are garbage, so I've been putting my time into a Trooper healer and having a really rough time with it. I want to like it but it isn't fun and it's being made even less fun in 1.2 for some reason.

 

I truly feel for the CM's. I tried CM healing and as tedious as it was, I enjoyed it. I'll give it a shot w/ 1.2 but I have a feeling that I won't enjoy it as much due to resource expenditure..

 

I blame all the CM/Gunnery Hybrids (and whatever the equivalent BH spec is) that dominated Warzones early on... Looks to me like BW tried to nerf that spec specifically w/o consideration as to how the changes would bleed over into PVE.

[ImariKurumi]

Looks like we get another week before 1.2 hits. 4/10 was supposed to be the release date...so for some reason it was pushed back. Lets hope it is to undo some of the nerfs to CM.

 

Not going to be optimistic about it, probably wont happen. Anyways i have scoundrel and commando now for healing, will just use scoundrel for 1.2 and hope i can go back to my commando in 1.3 if it gets buffed... Quite a number of peeps are doing that too, though our commandos will be severely undergeared come 1.3...

 

I still love commandos, but forced to tide through 1.2 with another class... sigh...

[rjavig]

So far I agree with most comments on cm. I have a level 50 commando healer and so far when i run Hard mode operations I have trouble keeping my ammo from depleting. Not because I am bad (i have full columi with a few rakata pieces and know im a tank healer) but because when a boss uses an aoe that hits everyone we have to try to heal them because i have to make sure no one gets ko'ed is till have that responsibility. Not only does kolto bomb heal only 3 targets the highest it heals is 2k when dps or even heals get hit by the aoe for 3k or higher even sometimes 10k worth of damage so we only heal 3 people for that then have to use adv. probe and med probe and bacta infusion which heals 3 people to max health or close if it crits then we have to wait a bit for adv. probe to cd or well have to spam med probe which would waist our ammo in 3 hits with it. When that happens i use supercharge cells since i was stacking it before fight but if i kept spamming adv. probe and then med prob with kolto bomb my ammo would be depleted just trying to bring everyone back to full health so i try to waite until i get an ammo or two back before spamming it again. This is before 1.2 i as a cm had trouble keeping my ammo in check if i came across a boss that used consistent aoe for example the rancor in KP, 1st boss of Ev, jarg and sorno in kp, Soa with the lightning balls and the shifts in stages, Karagga in kp and mostly every boss in operations. When 1.2 comes out not only will our ammo efficiency go way down our heals with residue and supercharge gas will go down quite a lot when those are supposed to help use when we get in those oh %$!# when a boss uses aoes like crazy or summons adds and do a lot of damage. Oh did i mention trauma probe? yea that thing was **** i only used it because it was free and it healed 300 and 700k crit now it cost 2 ammo? well the only time someone will see that placed on someone is the before we start after that im never placing it on someone during a fight unless i want to have no ammo for the rest of the fight. good thing commandos could dps since i know im probably done healing when 1.2 comes out since guild will replace me with a sage or smuggler unless i dps.

[Quotius]

^ Not wishing to be critical coz I thought your post had some good points, but pretty hard to read.. heres my edit..

 

So far I agree with most comments on cm, I have a level 50 commando healer and so far when i run Hard mode operations I have trouble keeping my ammo from depleting. Not because I am bad (i have full columi with a few rakata pieces and know im a tank healer) but because when a boss uses an aoe that hits everyone we have to try to heal them all. I have to make sure no one gets ko'ed, i still have that responsibility.

 

Kolto bomb heal only 3 targets, the highest it heals is 2k. When dps or even healers get hit by the aoe for 3k+ even sometimes 10k worth of damage so we only heal 3 people for that then have to use adv. probe, med probe and bacta infusion which can heal 3 people close to max health. If it crits then we have to wait a bit for adv. probe to cd or we'll have to spam med probe which would waste our ammo in 3 hits.

 

When that happens i use supercharge cells, since i was stacking it before fight, but if i kept spamming adv. probe and then med prob with kolto bomb my ammo would be depleted well before bringing people back to full health. So i try to wait until i get an ammo or two back before spamming it again.

 

This is before 1.2! As a cm I had trouble keeping my ammo in check. If i came across a boss that used consistent aoe for example; the rancor in KP, 1st boss of Ev, jarg and sorno in kp, Soa with the lightning balls and the shifts in stages, Karagga in kp and mostly every boss in operations.

 

When 1.2 comes out not only will our ammo efficiency go way down, our heals with residue and supercharge gas will go down quite a lot. Those are supposed to help when we get in those oh %$!# moments, like when a boss uses aoes like crazy or summons adds that do a lot of damage. Oh did i mention trauma probe? Yea that thing was ****, i only used it because it was free and it healed 3k and 7k crit now it cost 2 ammo? Well the only time someone will see that placed on someone is before we start, after that im never placing it on someone during a fight unless i want to have no ammo for the rest of the fight!

 

Good thing commandos could dps since i know im probably done healing when 1.2 comes out, since the guild will replace me with a sage or smuggler unless i dps.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Quotius

[FateUndecided]

I could not agree more with Quotius. Healing as a Commando was not the easiest thing before this patch due to the lack of a Smart AOE heal. And we still do not even get that. Just up to 4 instead of 3 while nerfing everything else. I was going to re-roll as a Sage but I really think I will just wait for GW2 as the devs see the impact that these changes are going to have. Combat Medics are pretty much are killed off with this as healers.

[Secured]

The nerfs to the Kolto Bomb healbuff and css-shield are justified, because you now hit 4 targets instead of 3. That will get you around 2k bonus healing, which is huge and also puts those buffs on 1 person more!

 

All the other nerfs are targeted at the fact, that the commando healer could be very effective in very unskilled hands. You didn't need to manage your munition and you didnt need to position yourself because you could just stand there, spam the same 3 skills and outheal almost any damage until eternity.

 

the commando heal nerfs are very justified and dont hurt smart players that much.

 

 

And for the PvE Part - He is by far the best Tankhealer and there should be no situation where he lets the tank die or gets out of ammo. Its virtually impossible!

 

If you however, try to fill the roll of a grouphealer, you're out of your element, just focus on your job and get a sage as second healer.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Secured

[Nellielovette]

I do agree that CMs are strong healers in pvp, but I would not say they are OP...not enough to validate these nerfs. And in pve, they are about as strong as any other healer...without a good aoe.

 

In non burst situations, sure...it's easy to maintain ammo (same as any other healer) but if you are in an op where there is a lot of burst dmg going out and you don't have time to wait on AMP, your ammo is gone...fast. Supercharged helped this of course by eliminating the CD on AMP, but now that AMP is only reducing the cost of MP by 1, down from 2, I really think we are going to struggle.

 

I'm sure anyone who doesn't play a CM is saying to themselves "Everyone thinks their class is nerfed the worse" (even my own guild is saying it), but I really think this is going to hurt our ability to heal ops.

 

Trauma probe will be useless, the amount of healing it does really isn't worth the 2 ammo...I can see why they added a cost to it, but they should have increased the healing a bit.

[Ayami_no_baka]

What SWTOR really needs is an adjustment for skills from PvE to PvP. As in stats, activation costs, dmg etc change depending on if you are doing PvE or PvP. Because for PvP - yes, the healer nerf was BADLY needed. As for PvE: of course it's ******** there!!!

 

I'd love to see that in the future. I think Guild Wars does it? When you attack a player, certain skills do much less dmg than if you attack an NPC. Same for healing and all other stats. That would certainly solve some issues PvPers and PvEers have

[SWImara]

What SWTOR really needs is an adjustment for skills from PvE to PvP. As in stats, activation costs, dmg etc change depending on if you are doing PvE or PvP. Because for PvP - yes, the healer nerf was BADLY needed. As for PvE: of course it's ******** there!!!

 

I'd love to see that in the future. I think Guild Wars does it? When you attack a player, certain skills do much less dmg than if you attack an NPC. Same for healing and all other stats. That would certainly solve some issues PvPers and PvEers have

It would be a nice simple solution, and definitely much better than the current WoW-style expertise system.

[RuQu]

What SWTOR really needs is an adjustment for skills from PvE to PvP. As in stats, activation costs, dmg etc change depending on if you are doing PvE or PvP. Because for PvP - yes, the healer nerf was BADLY needed. As for PvE: of course it's ******** there!!!

 

I'd love to see that in the future. I think Guild Wars does it? When you attack a player, certain skills do much less dmg than if you attack an NPC. Same for healing and all other stats. That would certainly solve some issues PvPers and PvEers have

 

This has been suggested multiple times, as has a class-specific variant of the trauma debuff to let them tune the different classes relative balance.

 

Of course, the Dev's know better, their method is clearly far more effective.

[Whytekrow]

*sigh*

 

I just sub'd after the free trial weekend. I've been looking for an MMO since I left DAOC. I was a DAOC subscriber for years. I finally quit my beloved DAOC due to the heavy-handed nerfs that continued to come down from Mythic.

 

Now just when I think I have decided on a class which I might enjoy here, I discover more of the same going on which caused me to abandon DAOC. Is there any company that understands how their changes impact the playerbase??

 

 

---> Shifa

For Nimue !!

 

Just a quick question, you do realize that Mythic was paired with Bioware to make this game yes?

[helikaos]

I play a full Heal specced CM. I have been playing this build from the moment I have hit 50 and have been healing my way through WZ's which have been my mainstay of game play.

I am a Valor 75 CM, with full BM gear and 1104 Expertise.

 

First off, this is a long post, it has my thoughts on several issues with CM healing, and I appreciate any feedback as well as counter arguments. All I ask is please be civil with your responses

 

Needless to say, this patch has made me terribly disappointed in the balancing of classes that supposedly is occurring. Pre-1.2, I'd usually get smashed by a well played Marauder or Powertech.

 

First off, the Marauder, Pre-1.2, any decent marauder worth his salt would know to save his charge against a CM in anticipation of the knock back. An immediate application of Deadly Throw (Healing Debuff), followed by a Crippling Slash (50% movement speed) would already place us in a serious predicament. Their use of Bleeds that bypass armor tore through our HP as it is. In combination with their interrupt, and force choke to bide time for a second interrupt was almost guaranteed to leave us close to death if not long dead.

 

Now, some may claim that we were tough to kill. Honestly, they should not be confusing "tough" to kill with any legitimate claim to quasi-intelligence on a healer's part. Any healer with an ounce of matter between their ears is constantly on the lookout for a well placed knockback to provide some breathing room. Be it LoS, or down a level (huttball). This breathing room also isn't always possible and ANY CM will know that if you're caught in open ground such as in between nodes in Civil War, Mid in Huttball or from the respawn in voidstar to the doors etc, a Marauder will absolutely rip you to shreds if you do not manage a LoS to safely pop a few heals.

 

And yet, they have been buffed this patch.

 

The same applies to Powertechs, with their constant slows from Plasma Cell, Quell (Interrupt) which can be talented to 6 seconds, their 2 stuns (AE and single target), Grapple that can be used offensively or defensively to interrupt as well. We stand no chance if caught on any open terrain.

 

Yet now, without an army of ever watchful players with constant peels, we are pretty much smooshed by any damage dealer that has an IQ higher than a door knob.

 

That aside, how can the healing nerfs be justified? In comparison to Sages/Sorcerors, we put out pitiful amounts of healing often outstripped by vast amounts as seen in the end results. The argument of Commandos wear heavy armor is invalid. Do Sages/Sorcerers not have the ability to shield? Any healer will also tell you that is much better to prevent damage than to recover from it. That shield alone is the difference in armor. They have a knockback, fair enough. Yet, they have other escape mechanics.

 

And now, prior information that Commando healers were due for a buff were proved false. Why? Not because we were overpowered to begin with. Surely that is not a reason. In this patch the Expertise tab shows you exactly the same things. There was a DRAMATIC 10% buff in damage boost on players. Sure, there was a slight boost in reduction, yet 0% increase in Healing Boost during PvP combat. And despite all this, still we were nerfed?

 

Today alone I have played about 20WZ matches, I can tell you honestly, it is amazing how squishy, underpowered and lackluster the commando heal spec is right now.

 

Field Triage now reduces cost by 1 instead of 2 was a foolish change. A sage with 600 Force casting Deliverance at 55 Force alone can cast it close to 11 times, not considering force regen which is linear. Medical Probe is 3 ammo, with our whopping 12 ammo, that is 4 casts, and of course we do not regen linearly, it's an EXPONENTIAL decrease as we go. We NEEDED Field Triage to be a reduction of 2 ammo to be even remotely useful. I spent more time today in warzones out of ammo than I did healing, ending up completely reliant on Hammer Shot spam which I need not say is pathetic.

 

Trauma Probe now costing 2 ammo. Pre-1.2, Admittedly I'd often forget about applying Trauma Probe, it honestly was an underpowered Skill that did not increase survivability by any significant amount to me. And now, with the 2 ammo cost, it has definitely rendered itself superfluous and warranted its immediate removal from my talent tree.

 

Kolto Bomb... The skill that held so much promise yet yielding constant disappointment. First off, the so called "buff" to hit 4 people is not a buff. Sure it can hit 4 people. But in all honesty you almost NEVER find 4 people stacked within a 8 meter range. That's half a warzone team. And if you did, you can be damn sure that an Orbital Strike/Death from Above/Lightning Storm/Smash was on it's way. And for the amount of damage, Kolto Bomb healed for a miniscule amount.

 

Nerf to 3% Kolto Residue, another inane talent. 2 talent points for a 3% boost on something that firstly I have to apply, which again is subject to actually having targets there, targets staying within said area, and barring myself getting knocked back. 2 points in Advanced tech increases my base healing by 2% alone and saves me that worry as it is.

 

Nerf of SCC for only 5% damage reduction. Seriously, our resources are stupidly scarce already with the Field Triage nerf. Now you're going reduce my pathetic damage reduction by a further 5%? Really? How did these nerfs form any semblance of coherent thought?

 

I love playing my commando, it fits my playstyle and I thoroughly have enjoyed playing it thus far. But this unjustified tweak that has turned us from supposed "frontline" as so proudly stated in the Class description, to the current state of invalid, quadriplegic mewling kittens is a far cry from what we should be.

Edited April 13, 2012 by helikaos

[RichardNoggin]

I agree with everyone else that Trauma Probe isnt worth the ammo unless your buffing before a fight or find yourself standing around with extra ammo. If you need heals now and dont want to run out of ammo then stay away from Trauma Probe in the middle of a fight.

[RuQu]

I agree with everyone else that Trauma Probe isnt worth the ammo unless your buffing before a fight or find yourself standing around with extra ammo. If you need heals now and dont want to run out of ammo then stay away from Trauma Probe in the middle of a fight.

 

I ran two simulations, one refreshing TP only if at 12 Ammo, another where it would be refreshed if you had 10 Ammo or more when the last charge got used.

 

The result: a 4% HPS loss for maintaining TP.

 

My recommendation is to only pre-cast it before bosses, since precasting before trash can get you targeted by all the ranged mobs in the pack, and to only refresh it if you are at 12 Ammo and don't need to cast anything else in the next 2s.

 

In other words, just short of worthless.

[bustaflex]

I have been waiting for this patch to come. i thought that the nerf was way too much but that i could work around it. but after yesterday and today i cant take it. i know that to heal with a CM you have to watch yourself on ammo in 1.2 because we dont have the return that we used to have. how can they expect a class to do a good job at healing when their return isnt even enough for them to be able to get back in a fight. pre-1.2 i could come into a fight and help turn it around but not anymore. the nerf was just too much. i've said to all my guild mates that i wont reroll and ill just figure out the new way to keep them up in WZ's but now i feel that i spoke too soon

[Tinthame]

Canceled my account. Problem solved!