Most "hardcore" PvP players don't care about progression.

[Tiresias]

The faster people recognize that Bioware has figured out this one simple truism the faster they will understand why PvP gear is being further separated from PvE gear and being made easier to acquire.

 

True hardcore PvPers don't much care for the gear grind and they don't much care for gear disparities.

 

Similarly, true hardcore PvPers don't like one-sided fights. This is why highly skilled individuals and teams seek out other highly skilled individuals and teams to test themselves against.

 

The concept of "progression" is lost on the hardcore PvP base. They don't want to "progress" their character, they want to improve themselves. Shiny gear, cool mounts, abilities that animate differently, social abilities, non-combat pets, titles, and other such interesting but ultimately frivolous rewards are all the hardcore PvP crowd needs. Such needless things are called "trophies", and they exist in real life too.

 

True hardcore PvPers want to step into an encounter where gear and statistics are level out of the gate. That way, when they beat the other team they can say they simply played better.

 

Bioware is slowing coming to realize that the gear-based PvP model that World of Warcraft introduced to MMOs is toxic and soul-killing. They are starting to realize that the best model is to separate PvP gear from PvE gear, make the PvP gear easy to acquire, and let player skill -- not time invested -- be the determining factor in a PvP encounter's victor.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Tiresias

[Helig]

The concept of "progression" is lost on the hardcore PvP base. They don't want to "progress" their character, they want to improve themselves. Shiny gear, cool mounts, abilities that animate differently, social abilities, non-combat pets, titles, and other such interesting but ultimately frivolous rewards are all the hardcore PvP crowd needs. Such needless things are called "trophies", and they exists in real life too.

 

True hardcore PvPers want to step into an encounter where gear and statistics are level out of the gate. That way, when they beat the other team they can say they simply played better.

 

Bioware is slowing coming to realize that the gear-based PvP model that World of Warcraft introduced to MMOs is toxic and soul-killing. They are starting to realize that the best model is to separate PvP gear from PvE gear, make the PvP gear easy to acquire, and let player skill -- not time invested -- be the determining factor in a PvP encounter's victor.

 

Bolded for truth. Don't give a levitating frak about having the best gear on the server. *Do* give a frak about being outplayed\outmaneuvered.

[Necrotiq]

The faster people recognize that Bioware has figured out this one simple truism the faster they will understand why PvP gear is being further separated from PvE gear and being made easier to acquire.

 

True hardcore PvPers don't much care for the gear grind and they don't much care for gear disparities.

 

Similarly, true hardcore PvPers don't like one-sided fights. This is why highly skilled individuals and teams seek out other highly skilled individuals and teams to test themselves against.

 

The concept of "progression" is lost on the hardcore PvP base. They don't want to "progress" their character, they want to improve themselves. Shiny gear, cool mounts, abilities that animate differently, social abilities, non-combat pets, titles, and other such interesting but ultimately frivolous rewards are all the hardcore PvP crowd needs. Such needless things are called "trophies", and they exist in real life too.

 

True hardcore PvPers want to step into an encounter where gear and statistics are level out of the gate. That way, when they beat the other team they can say they simply played better.

 

Exactly! I'm in the top PvP guild of my server currently, I don't care much for progression or gear, i don't like things being handed to me, I prefer to work my way to the top.

All i want is a challenge, Which few guilds can do but i mostly end up facing randoms all day in my premades.

 

I do agree on PvE and PvP gear being seperated.

I do not agree on PvP gear becoming easier to get.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Necrotiq

[matekwong]

Totally agreed, and BW needs to apply Best match of the week replays. Serioously.

[Necrotiq]

inb4 fail trolls appear.

[Ulltramagns]

Thank you to the OP for for a post of raw unfiltered truth. More power to bioware for this. Real pvpers want to beat there opponent on even terms, crushing someone with worse gear then you doesnt mean anything. Edited March 16, 2012 by Ulltramagns

[Exaro]

Exactly! I'm in the top PvP guild of my server currently, I don't care much for progression or gear, i don't like things being handed to me, I prefer to work my way to the top.

All i want is a challenge, Which few guilds can do but i mostly end up facing randoms all day in my premades.

 

I do agree on PvE and PvP gear being seperated.

I do not agree on PvP gear becoming easier to get.

 

I don't think you fully understand what the OP is saying.

 

Also, please provide proof you are in the best PvP guild on the server please.

[BadNewzzz]

Agree.

 

Someone that think he is good at pvp but need/want better gear then the avg player just doesn't get what pvp is.

[Necrotiq]

I don't think you fully understand what the OP is saying.

 

Also, please provide proof you are in the best PvP guild on the server please.s.

 

What proof do you want? I'm in Tempest on Ahto City EU, go check it out

 

Also, What dont i understand? Hes more or less saying hardcore PvPers dont care about gear and just want a challenge, which is what i just said.

I dont think YOU understand.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Necrotiq

[BadNewzzz]

What proof do you want? I'm in Tempest on Ahto City EU, go check it out

 

Quoting wrong person? i did agree with OP. I don't care about where you play or how good you think you are.

[Darth_Sookie]

Funny it's always the soloquing scrubs that beleive this is true.

 

Yeah in a game built around PvP like Guildwars 2 this is very much desierable. In a game like swtor we need our distractions and goals to work towards or it will die out.

 

Whatever they do with gear though, won't matter AT ALL. The bads will still lose terribly and they'll be back here blaming class balance or premade comps. Sorc+x+x+x is soooooo OP NERF THEM NOW!

 

 

Are you guys new to this?

[Skillmare]

Don't care either way. People are crybabies. I will grind gear if I have to, I don't mind. What it does is force you to play the game, get more acquainted with your character. But it's not needed if the gear is handed to you, as you'll do that over time anyway.

[Helig]

Funny it's always the soloquing scrubs that beleive this is true.

 

Yeah in a game built around PvP like Guildwars 2 this is very much desierable. In a game like swtor we need our distractions and goals to work towards or it will die out.

 

Whatever they do with gear though, won't matter AT ALL. The bads will still lose terribly and they'll be back here blaming class balance or premade comps. Sorc+x+x+x is soooooo OP NERF THEM NOW!

 

 

Are you guys new to this?

 

Hi. I run in a tight-knit premade and I think it's true. Gear-based PvP has a negative impact on both, community and gameplay.

 

But I think there's a relatively safe compromise, and BW are working on making it happen. In the recent 1.2 interview (it's on Darth Hater, transcripted) they did say that they're minimizing gear gaps.

 

As of now, I'm fairly satisfied by the way Champ vs BM looks. Hoping Bioware won't succumb to mudflation.

[tamgros]

OP, preach it brotha!

 

Yeah in a game built around PvP like Guildwars 2 this is very much desierable. In a game like swtor we need our distractions and goals to work towards or it will die out.

 

Whatever they do with gear though, won't matter AT ALL. The bads will still lose terribly and they'll be back here blaming class balance or premade comps. Sorc+x+x+x is soooooo OP NERF THEM NOW!

 

So who's to say that SWTOR can't build part of its game around PvP? They're bringing in rated warzones, that's something to work for. If you have huge gear disparities in a rated system, then the ratings mean much less. Your post basically calls for this game not to have good PvP, it makes no sense to me.

 

I'd prefer if there was no PvP gear grind at all and there was just a system of stat choices that are equalish (depending on your playstyle). Ie, they should hand BM gear to every new 50 who wants to PvP.

 

Oh, and I run with a solid premade.

[RobNightfall]

Funny it's always the soloquing scrubs that beleive this is true.

 

Yeah in a game built around PvP like Guildwars 2 this is very much desierable. In a game like swtor we need our distractions and goals to work towards or it will die out.

 

Whatever they do with gear though, won't matter AT ALL. The bads will still lose terribly and they'll be back here blaming class balance or premade comps. Sorc+x+x+x is soooooo OP NERF THEM NOW!

 

 

Are you guys new to this?

 

I routinely run in premades and I think you couldn't be more wrong. YOU need your distractions, I need decent PvP or I'll head off for Guild Wars 2. Gear in PvP is not needed.

[Cstain]

The only reason this post is successful and not trolled are because all of the real PVPers left this game long ago. I for one just play the game sparingly but to say that real PVPers do not care about progression is a downright lie. Look at any tournament in any game and tell me that the players did not play to have the highest gear available. I know everyone wants to live in this world where we all play for fun and laughs but that is not true.

 

But yes keep thinking that you are amazing pvpers.....at least in this game you will be safe with that lie.

[Scav]

Mostly true. Some of us care for shiny gear. For example, in gw, I got my underworld gear. It was for looks only, no advantage. But I got the money by HoH drop of crystalline sword (it sold for more than a single account can hold credits).

[RealAeiouy]

I wouldn't say most, I would say all. I have never seen a competive pvp player who wants persistant stat progression.

 

In fact over the years the most common thing pvp players want is to stop progressing and start fighting. Pvp doesn't start until everybody is maxed out.

[Dakan]

Oh look, it's Snookie still pretending to be a PvPer and still fantasizing about a masochistic gear grind so she can feel special at the end of the day.

 

***

 

I run with a fairly solid PvP guild on my server as well.

 

We're trying to gear up our players as quickly as possible.

 

We want to face a challenge, not lolrofltrollscrubstopfaceroll all day long.

 

If there's PvP gear to attain, we'll put the effort and time into it, but none of us really enjoy any sort of grind or "progression."

 

We just want to PvP. And for it to be competitive.

[Proppa]

I would much rather see a ranking system, like what DAOC had. You get a website with "top" earners so you can compare yourself with other players.

 

The excitement is in the great fights, it's the excitement which keeps me playing games.

 

Like in Call of Duty, getting a Tactical Nuke with nothing but a gun (no harriers/chopper gunner), simply by shooting people. This was amazingly exciting.

 

So far, SWTOR doesn't have that excitement for me. It's all about how long you can play and focus on one toon in the hope to get the best gear so you can just facemash your face on the keyboard to win.

 

I would much rather be on equal footings as said, so that way when I win it's exciting. I don't want to be in full BM Gear against a fresh 50 as there is no challenge in that.

 

But it seems lots of players see time played as hardcore/skilled, the fact they have full BM gear makes them the best. How on earth people don't get bored after a week is beyond me. I really don't understand the mindset of the people who think like that.

 

Give me ranked warzones on an even playing field, where the ranking is showed so that I get the excitement back in an MMO!

[Dakan]

The only reason this post is successful and not trolled are because all of the real PVPers left this game long ago. I for one just play the game sparingly but to say that real PVPers do not care about progression is a downright lie. Look at any tournament in any game and tell me that the players did not play to have the highest gear available. I know everyone wants to live in this world where we all play for fun and laughs but that is not true.

 

But yes keep thinking that you are amazing pvpers.....at least in this game you will be safe with that lie.

 

There's always this guy on every forum who has a crystal ball, knows every PvPer who's ever lived and played MMOs, and knows what games they leave and now currently play.

[flem]

Bio should just go all the way and normalize all gear in rated WZs. I guess it depends how expensive (time/odds-wise) the WH stuff actually turns out to be.

[Darth_Sookie]

I routinely run in premades and I think you couldn't be more wrong. YOU need your distractions, I need decent PvP or I'll head off for Guild Wars 2. Gear in PvP is not needed.

 

Then i'll see you in gw2 i suppose.

 

PvP is an afterthought in this game. The so called "ranked" warzones are nothing more than a solo rank number. BORING.

 

 

This is a joke. Atleast make another tier of gear to work towards that's only lilke 5% better than warhero gear that takes high rating to achieve.

 

If you honestly beleive that a 5% gear advantage is holding you back then you have bigger problems to worry about,

[Dakan]

But it seems lots of players see time played as hardcore/skilled, the fact they have full BM gear makes them the best. How on earth people don't get bored after a week is beyond me. I really don't understand the mindset of the people who think like that.

 

It's the mindset WoW created.

 

None of them ever want to admit they were brainwashed by that game, but we all know it's the reason.

[athenabadb]

I'm leaving no matter what to invest more time into street fighter x tekken, a PvP game without gear but like all fighter games is much harder to become good at than MMOs (I put in the time to learn combos, mechanics, I will beat someone who does not). SWTOR needs a gear ladder in PvP and also matchmaking will. very soon, require 8 man Ques and matchmaking based on skill. It is the geared and high skill and ideal team comp matches where the game may be fun for some real PvPers. After the guild summit I realized the developer's don't understand their own game in terms of PvP mechanics so I lost hope.

 

A skilled players will put in the time to acquire the gear and min/max, which if often hastened due to playing skills or people skills. It takes a almost no time at all to get full champ, which is what I have used for almost two months now, and it let's the player able to handle anyone in the game due to Tier 3 being marginal on mods and upgrades. Yet players already complain, I do a lot of solo no point world pvp solo ganking of geared mains and over many games only a few under par players surprised me with skill. The vast majority of undergeared people often have not invested the time to learn even the basics, like jousting for melee or kiting for ranged, which I infer that most of them are clickers and often the abilities that should be used like, snare/stun. don't get used.