★★★[ARENA] - benefits of adding ARENA to SWTOR★★★

[Mirialol]

Find me complaining about balance in pvp. I think this is one of the most balanced MMOs I've played. The classes are unique and interesting and the group balance is pretty good (not perfect, but good.) I don't want perfectly balanced 1v1 in my MMO, if it ever gets to that then it means they've removed every interesting ability and homogenized the game into oblivion.

 

i believe this game can achieve close to perfect 1v1 balance without jeopardizing interesting abilities and uniqueness of classes

 

 

starcraft = perfectly balanced. 3 races, 6 different matchups

 

swtor: 8 classes, 36 different matchups

 

 

however starcraft is far more complex than classes of SWTOR. Unique units, different cost per units. different range/movement speed/ spells. have to take build orders into account, billion other issues. However, they achieved perfect balance while still have 3 very unique races

 

 

i believe balancing 1v1 in SWTOR would be far easier and less time consuming than balancing starcraft

[Elear]

and stop trolling this thread with your uneducated, uninformed nonsense

 

 

Oh really? Didn't you mean "Stop disagreeing with me!"? Great way to prove your point.

At least now I'm sure you won't convince anyone, thanks.

 

 

Have fun in your puddle.

 

O&O

[Jesmcalli]

WoW's pvp was destined to be unbalanced with or without arena, because of the CC / diminishing returns system. Not to mention that blizzard simply slapped arenas into the game, and neglected it completely for years for most part. SWTOR pvp is based on resolve system, and data from 1v1 matchups can point out any unbalance issues, something wow never did

 

and stop trolling this thread with your uneducated, uninformed nonsense

 

So, WOW's PVP is imbalanced because of CCs and the DR system, and yet SWTOR's isn't? Come on. I find myself unable to do anything a lot more in this game than I ever did in WOW.

[Mirialol]

Arenas were what caused imbalances in WOW PVP in the first place, so no. Arenas in SWTOR will end up just like WOW's did, with FOTM comps that pretty much roll everything else. Then we'll start seeing nerfs that affect warzone and PVE play.

 

designwise its harder for SWTOR to have a FOTM comps / class that can roll over anything

 

 

and class balance wont affect group / objected oriented pvp nearly as much as it does arena

 

 

as long as arena isnt neglected as it was in wow, it can help achieve balance

[Mirialol]

So, WOW's PVP is imbalanced because of CCs and the DR system, and yet SWTOR's isn't? Come on. I find myself unable to do anything a lot more in this game than I ever did in WOW.

 

 

CC's+DR is one of PRIMARY factors that determined synergy and overpowered comps in WoW.

 

example: warlock and priest could never play in same comp, because both of their CC's shared same DR (fear, psychic scream)

 

 

 

on the other hand, look at MLS, which is currently considered as strongest FOTM comp:

 

mage = sheep, deep freeze

warlock = fear, howl, deathcoil

shaman = hex

 

powerful CC's, all on separate DR. extreme synergy and extremely overpowered

Edited March 16, 2012 by Mirialol

[Jesmcalli]

CC's+DR is one of PRIMARY factors that determined synergy and overpowered comps in WoW.

 

example: warlock and priest could never play in same comp, because both of their CC's shared same DR (fear, psychic scream)

 

 

 

on the other hand, look at MLS, which is currently considered as strongest FOTM comp:

 

mage = sheep, deep freeze

warlock = fear, howl, deathcoil

shaman = hex

 

powerful CC's, all on separate DR. extreme synergy and extremely overpowered

 

I'd just stick to trying to balance the overall PVP than trying to balance it down to small comps. Bioware is having a hard enough time as it is.

[Mirialol]

Oh really? Didn't you mean "Stop disagreeing with me!"? Great way to prove your point.

At least now I'm sure you won't convince anyone, thanks.

 

 

Have fun in your puddle.

 

O&O

 

you were obviously trying very hard to discredit this thread with nothing but some blatant flaming / insult, and didn't back up any of your claims with any proofs

 

try harder next time

 

p.s. i dont really care if i don't convince you or not, since obviously u are typical bad mmo player / forum troll :/ . I can pretty much tell by your post that you never played any PvP at high levels (wow and swtor), and doesn't really care about this game whatsoever

[iceperson]

i believe this game can achieve close to perfect 1v1 balance without jeopardizing interesting abilities and uniqueness of classes

 

you think you can create 8 classes that are interesting and different yet perfectly balanced 1v1? that's pure comedic gold there. tell me, what other things do you believe in? the toothfairy? santa? an honest politician?

[Mirialol]

I'd just stick to trying to balance the overall PVP than trying to balance it down to small comps. Bioware is having a hard enough time as it is.

 

yea thats why i suggested balancing around 1v1 matchups, with 1v1 arena to provide data

 

 

 

swtor, we dont have to worry about synergy like we did about wow (swtor=resolve based cc system). so once we fix the 1v1's, 2v2 3v3 8v8's should all be balanced

[Foenixz]

I am against arenas as a form of reward system and any other system is doomed to failure precisely for the reasons Mirialol (sp?) gave. No one will want to do it if there are not significant gear rewards.

 

the reasons why WoW's system hurt everyone so much (in no particular order)

 

It made macros necessary

Casuals could never hope to compete with some who could press one key and a multitude iof stuff could happen

 

E.G.

#showtooltip Counterspell

/cancelaura Ice Block

/stopcasting

/cast [target=focus,exist] Counterspell

/cast Counterspell

 

was a standard its one of the reasons I was so dead set against them in this game

 

Only 2% of wow players did more than casual arenas. Too small a base to appeal to teh rest of us (I am/was a 2400 ranked frost mage warlock warrior)

Rated WZs are more appealing to guilds as they require strategy tactics and teamwork. 2v2 3v3 will only favor juggs/guardians and a healer or choice (op/scoundrel comes to mind) see this thread:

 

Damn can't find teh thread about a 3v3 tourney someone help

 

My experience was that arena catered to OP classes that would be nerfed after a season was over to OP another class to nerf to OP another class ..... ad infinitum as nauseum

 

There are some good points here .. I agree that arenas sharpen skills for 1v1 or 1v2 encounters. I might support them IF ...

 

There are 4v4 and only 4v4 that way a mix of classes might be able tp better compete with the aforementioned tank/heals comp.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Foenixz

[itscooligotthis]

I'd dig having an arena style system in swtor. But I don't know about the 1v1 thing. There's really no way to include healers and tanks in that system. Not as the game currently is, at least.

 

The only way to balance a game for 1v1 is if the game has only dps/hybrid dps classes. Otherwise, though, I'd love to see an arena style system. Maybe have a 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. Etc.

 

This is neither here nor there, but starcraft is only balanced across an entire map pool. There are absolutely certain maps that heavily favor one race over another.

[Mirialol]

I'd dig having an arena style system in swtor. But I don't know about the 1v1 thing. There's really no way to include healers and tanks in that system. Not as the game currently is, at least.

 

The only way to balance a game for 1v1 is if the game has only dps/hybrid dps classes. Otherwise, though, I'd love to see an arena style system. Maybe have a 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. Etc.

 

This is neither here nor there, but starcraft is only balanced across an entire map pool. There are absolutely certain maps that heavily favor one race over another.

 

i think tanks are quite amazing at outlasting and beating other classes in duels

 

ive beaten sentinel/marauders as both protection and focus spec guardian

 

current strongest dueling classes are tank shadow/assasin, and dps marauders

 

 

and hybrid dps/heal specced (commando / sages) are also awesome at outlasting and winning duels, and possibly also beat pure dps specced player in mirror class duels

Edited March 16, 2012 by Mirialol

[ilovethepink]

Just gonna guess it'll be PT/PT/Ops / Van/Van/Scoun comps... everywhere.

 

I'll admit I didn't read all of your post. I hated WoW's arena. You can't balance the game around both formats, Arena and Warzones, as has been shown throughout the whole of TBC, WotLK and Cata, and I prefer Ojective-Oriented Battles to Team Deathmatch maps.

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/5

 

This was an interview with one of the WoW Devs, saying thier implementation was a mistake. Sadly that implementation is etched into people's minds and anything other than it will be "no we want this arena".

 

I would quit if they ever added Arena. I'd rather they just stick with their Rated WZ's and work on those, this way the game, hopefully, won't end up based around Dispels, CCs and Comps.

[Groncho]

i spent 3 hours writing this post and this is your response? bet you didnt even take 2 minutes to read my post

 

i'll report your response as 'garbage'

 

I'll file this under...WOW i had a WOW idea!!!!!

and females do not tend to PvP

 

I know some girls that are REALLY good at PvP

so more

 

WOW i need mai WOW enviroment

 

(next time this kids are gunna be asking for wizzards)

 

Ps: uhhhhhhhhhhhhh this bad guy didnt like what i wrote...REPORT REPORT REPORT

[itscooligotthis]

i think tanks are quite amazing at outlasting and beating other classes in duels

 

ive beaten sentinel/marauders as both protection and focus spec guardian

 

current strongest dueling classes are tank shadow/assasin, and dps marauders

 

 

and hybrid dps/heal specced (commando / sages) are also awesome at outlasting and winning duels, and possibly also beat pure dps specced player in mirror class duels

 

I suppose it's possible all classes/advanced specs could be competitive. But you're right in that tanks and healers would have to spec hybrid to compete. And I'm super iffy about BW doing any sort of balancing around 1v1 for tanks and healers. Because they'd have to assume a hybrid spec.

 

That said, I enjoy healing WZs. I don't do a hybrid dps/heal spec because I'd rather be a stronger healer. I can put out some amazing numbers and keep people up and help win battles. I know many others who enjoy this same thing. And I'd hate to see my abilities/stats/etc get altered based on data collected from 1v1 stats with hybrid spec'd "healers". The same could be said for tank specs.

 

I like the idea. And I'd love to see it implemented (even 1v1 is fine). I just don't know how the balancing would work for tanks/heals.

[Dharagada]

yea thats why i suggested balancing around 1v1 matchups, with 1v1 arena to provide data

 

 

 

swtor, we dont have to worry about synergy like we did about wow (swtor=resolve based cc system). so once we fix the 1v1's, 2v2 3v3 8v8's should all be balanced

 

It doesn't work like that.

 

Trying to balance 1v1 basically involves making everyone the same, that's why there's usually less strat and thought in an arena match either everyone is exactly the same or you end up with possible over powered compositions. There's no real middle ground.

 

Arena doesn't involve more skill, it's a different kind of pvp, that generally has less room for uniqueness, strategy and out of the box thinking, that's not a good or bad thing it's just different. In order for a basic arena to work fairly all class types have to perform exactly the same with the comps to having to all be exactly the same.

 

EDIT: I should add I don't really care if arenas are added or not, but to claim they will enhance PVP in any way, or where the skilled pvpers will hang out is silly, it won't be, it may be where some decent one's go but that's it, and it most certainly will not fix any balance issues for pvp, if anything it will make them far worse if the devs decide to balance around them.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Dharagada

[tbug]

+10000 I love arenas, but a little to early. If this game can survive for 3 more months with 1.5 million plus people, and stays steady for awhile. I wouldnt mind it when the new story patch comes out(leveling to 60 or 55). The problem with swtor now, say the leveling patch comes out in November(8 months away). That would be really boring only doing ranked warzones for 8 months without any other different pvp. Well I guess there is Open World Pvp, but......

[Mirialol]

+10000 I love arenas, but a little to early. If this game can survive for 3 more months with 1.5 million plus people, and stays steady for awhile. I wouldnt mind it when the new story patch comes out(leveling to 60 or 55). The problem with swtor now, say the leveling patch comes out in November(8 months away). That would be really boring only doing ranked warzones for 8 months without any other different pvp. Well I guess there is Open World Pvp, but......

 

yea if they do add it eventually, i sure hope they add it the way i illustrated on my 2nd post

[Sparcrypt]

LASTLY...

 

5. 1v1 arenas

 

 

Please please PLEASE no.

 

Areanas? No problem! Love to have them. But I never want to see an MMO go the way of WoW when Arenas were brought in. All that competiton came at the expense of individuality.

 

Once small teams were pit against one another, people very quickly figured out the best combos and teams that were not an issue when you had 10 or more players on each side. So what happened? The classes all became the same thing with different names.

 

The all have silence X on cooldown Y that shares diminishing returns with Z. Each team combo has a mortal strike move and a heroism and blah blah blah.

 

I like a PvP system where one class has an edge over another, but that same class has a disadvantage against yet another class. It encourages teamwork and adds complexity to the game. It means using utility to your fullest advantage to come out on top, or even just perfecting the ability to run away and hide.

 

Thats not to say I want to see 'Oh... I'm a sage and there's a sniper, I have zero chance to win this'. But I absolutely want to see 'Sniper! Better bring the A game or I'm screwed'. By the same token that sniper should look at one of your teammates and feel they have to be cautios.

 

The only way to make the game truely balanced 1v1 is for the classes to basically end up falling into two or three base models and staying mostly within those constraints. I don't want that, I can play an FPS or any other non-persistant world game if i want that.

 

Keep class individuality alive - 4v4 arenas sound like a good idea, but either don't go lower, or do what WoW eventually had to do and don't rank the 1v1/2v2 games and refuse to balance down to that level.

[Raiijin]

OP well written well spoken +1000 i have been trying to think how to explain to everyone how this would be helpful to biowares cause im leveling and i get bored with it i log onto wow and arena on my disc prist for hours then the day is gone and i barely played swtor rinse and repeat all pvpers need a way to say im better than you look. thats how we are wired bottom line. regardless on what the pve heros think its just the way it is. this tread is perfect and needs to be at least thought about by the devs. and at the very least just put in a 1v1 arena and thats all. i love this game in every way but the pvp and pvp is my main focus so there in lies the problem. just let the pvers pve and the pvpers pvp dont limit it. youll make more money!!!! =]

[Mirialol]

OP well written well spoken +1000 i have been trying to think how to explain to everyone how this would be helpful to biowares cause im leveling and i get bored with it i log onto wow and arena on my disc prist for hours then the day is gone and i barely played swtor rinse and repeat all pvpers need a way to say im better than you look. thats how we are wired bottom line. regardless on what the pve heros think its just the way it is. this tread is perfect and needs to be at least thought about by the devs. and at the very least just put in a 1v1 arena and thats all. i love this game in every way but the pvp and pvp is my main focus so there in lies the problem. just let the pvers pve and the pvpers pvp dont limit it. youll make more money!!!! =]

 

 

as much as blizzard disrespects pvpers, sadly the truth is that pvpers pay more money on average than casuals / pvers

 

 

majority of faction change or server transfers are paid for by PvPers that are looking for new arena teams, making end of season pushes, or simply transfering to different battlegroup to compete for rank1 titles. not to mention that lot of these players eventually transfer BACK to their old realm to play with friends, once new season starts or teams doesnt work out as intended. high end pvpers are just that hardcore

 

 

it was sad for me to know that in wow, pvpers pay more money than pvers to play the game but are treated like 2nd class citizens

Edited March 16, 2012 by Mirialol

[Unpleasant]

I'll file this under "More WoW garbage"

 

This. Arenas are not fun and ruined WoW PVP.

[JGames]

The concept of an Arena is new to me, because I never played any MMOs (this is my first one), but I think it is a great idea. I like the idea of having really competitive matches with a fairly limited amount of people in the match, due to the competitive nature in me.

 

If this is a "vote for Arena's" thread instead of just an information thread, I give it a +1.

[RyanEclipse]

I don't think I've posted since the early game access posts, but I felt the need to support this.

Arenas are very hard to get burned out on. It's more than always a new team and a new on-the-fly strat to overcome. Healing would need some tweaks though

Edited March 16, 2012 by RyanEclipse

[Ardim]

I've never played WoW, but this Arena thing looks like a really good idea.

 

Objectives, like the ones in Warzones, ARE fun, but having to play them over and over just gets plain boring. I seriously just want PvP (And Ilum is broken. It's just all zerg zerg zerg whenever there's people) where my main goal is to kill the enemy and move on, but have it skill-oriented, which is why I enjoy smaller battles such as 1 vs 1 since it's just me and my enemy and no other factors to help him/her.

 

1. Arena SHOULD NOT reward players with better gear or advantages of any kind

 

I totally agree with this. Arena should be for fun and competition. Period.

 

In short, Arenas = Simple, but effective and fun idea. In my opinion.