Why are Mercs completely useless in 50 pvp

[Rampagius]

People like lists, and they are easier to read.

 

Mercs are broken at level 50 because:

• Incredibly low survivability - why am I still dying in a few hits with 543 expertise?
   
  
• Not nearly enough damage output to offset the lack of survivability. Instead of a glass-cannon, mercs feel more like a glass pea-shooter
   
  
• Lack of crowd control - 4 second electro dart on a long cooldown...THAT'S IT? Why can other classes interrupt, stun, root, snare, essentially SHUT ME DOWN yet all I have is a 4 second window that I might have to get 1-2 attacks off that get absorbed anyway???
   
  
• Kiting is impossible. I played arsenal and firebug and the supposed kiting abilities that last a whopping 2 seconds mean little to nothing when other classes have a disproportionately high number of gap closers
   
  
• Tracer is utterly useless. It hits for almost nothing and gets interrupted every fight. The point of tracer is to build up defensive and offensive buffs on me and my target. With so many people running away from fights and using LoS, interrupts, and stuns, I hardly ever see the full benefit of tracer buffs. Even when I do have the buffs maxed, I still can't put out enough damage offset my almost non-existent survivablity
  

 

I'm not trying to start a debate. I just want answers. If there are other mercs out there not having these issues, please tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'd love to continue to play the class since I've already invested a good amount of time into it.

[caultonpos]

How come mercs get the highest damage in most warzones?

 

How come a healer merc is freakin hard to kill?

[caultonpos]

You need to find a class with a single button skill.

[LoL-K-Noob]

Somebody is trying to avoid the nerfbat to their class.

[KrotanaThrall]

People like lists, and they are easier to read.

 

Mercs are broken at level 50 because:

• Incredibly low survivability - why am I still dying in a few hits with 543 expertise?
   
  
• Not nearly enough damage output to offset the lack of survivability. Instead of a glass-cannon, mercs feel more like a glass pea-shooter
   
  
• Lack of crowd control - 4 second electro dart on a long cooldown...THAT'S IT? Why can other classes interrupt, stun, root, snare, essentially SHUT ME DOWN yet all I have is a 4 second window that I might have to get 1-2 attacks off that get absorbed anyway???
   
  
• Kiting is impossible. I played arsenal and firebug and the supposed kiting abilities that last a whopping 2 seconds mean little to nothing when other classes have a disproportionately high number of gap closers
   
  
• Tracer is utterly useless. It hits for almost nothing and gets interrupted every fight. The point of tracer is to build up defensive and offensive buffs on me and my target. With so many people running away from fights and using LoS, interrupts, and stuns, I hardly ever see the full benefit of tracer buffs. Even when I do have the buffs maxed, I still can't put out enough damage offset my almost non-existent survivablity
  

 

I'm not trying to start a debate. I just want answers. If there are other mercs out there not having these issues, please tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'd love to continue to play the class since I've already invested a good amount of time into it.

 

 

This post tells me you don't know $ hit about your Class. you have 2 stuns a 4 sec and a 8 sec.

 

I kite people ALL THE TIME successfully. My Grav round norm hits for 800-3.5k depending on the person I've had back to back 3.5k hits followed by a 5.3 Demo round DEAD NOOB.

 

I can 1v2 almost all of the time at least long enough for help to get there and if I'm heal Speced Forget about it you aren't killing me EVER unless you send your whole team.

 

I regularly end WZ's with anywhere from 400-600k damage 30+ kills and 150-200k Healing if i'm dps speced Reverse those Numbers if I'm heal spec'ed.

[JediDuckling]

How come mercs get the highest damage in most warzones?

 

How come a healer merc is freakin hard to kill?

 

BH and trooper DPS tree's are in need of looking at as they are rediculusly strong yes.

 

 

but healer BH/troopers are perfectly fine and dont need touching.

 

 

BH/trooper healers hard to kill ? all healers are hard to kill lol unless interupted and stunned then they drop like flys.

 

if a healer cant heal himself they are squishy as hell.

 

 

sage/sorce get bubble and BH/trooper get trauma probes and scoundrel/operative healers get loads of cc's and the only healers that can stealth

[Ortof]

How come mercs get the highest damage in most warzones?

 

How come a healer merc is freakin hard to kill?

 

LMAO when was the last time you saw a merc do over 500k damage? Now go to your local BM Sorc and look at him doing 500k damage while putting out over 100k healing.

 

Not going to argue about the Merc healer, but in regards to your top damage statement. PFFT, riiiiiiight.

[Astarica]

If you say Mercs are weak because they're one of the weakest Huttball classes that'd almost make sense.

[Maisen]

I guess you all have other classes than mercs (probably sorc/sage and so on) so you can't understand what OP said. Do you really think that looking at how much damage a class do in a warzone is a way to judge a class? This IS how troll think.

In 1vs1 an Arsenal Merc is dust and everyone with a medium pvp experience know about that, it's an easy prey becuse it doesn't have any interupt, any absorb shield, any speed boost, not so many CCs (lot less than any other classes), a medium health pool (1k more than a sorc ), no hiding in combat, and so on, it has only tracer missile and hope to kill the enemy as fast as possibile, but with just an interrupt and he is gone

 

The problem with Arsenal Merc isn't the class itself, it has great DPS (but not the most) and low survivability, it is balanced this way, the problem are the other classes that have so much more with comparable DPS, health and better defences

 

p.s. bodyguard merc is like any other healer in this game (immortal but no DPS), pyrotech is a viable way but not so common and too much situational

[Reveillere]

Heavy armor, very good defensive cool downs, the highest ranged dps in the game, tracer missile the highest hitting proc builder of all classes

[Bamajawn]

OP, have you PvP'd a lot in other games? I've been sensing a lot of frustration here from SWTOR players who are PvPing for the first time. If that's the case, practice, practice, practice... and then go practice some more. Seriously... I'm not trying to taunt you.

[jolten]

LMAO when was the last time you saw a merc do over 500k damage? Now go to your local BM Sorc and look at him doing 500k damage while putting out over 100k healing.

 

Not going to argue about the Merc healer, but in regards to your top damage statement. PFFT, riiiiiiight.

 

It's doable but rarely happens can only remember getting over 500k once.

300k + is more realistic.

 

Have not tried assault spec though might be easier to do that much damage spreading dots around but I don't see the point in doing that.

[Maisen]

Heavy armor, very good defensive cool downs, the highest ranged dps in the game, tracer missile the highest hitting proc builder of all classes

 

Yes, but we died in 5 seconds against every other classes whereas other classes can stand 1vs1 AND kill a lot better with so many more ccs, bubbles and too much dps (did you ever seen sorc/sage/marauder/IA/Smuggler on top damage too?)

 

Merc is a group toon, bad is all the other classes can play alone

[Ortof]

It's doable but rarely happens can only remember getting over 500k once.

300k + is more realistic.

 

Have not tried assault spec though might be easier to do that much damage spreading dots around but I don't see the point in doing that.

 

Exactly. I'm in full Champ and even if I am allowed to free cast most of the match I can only get roughly 300k. Too many bubbles that absorb damage. Now I "could" probably hit 500k if no one used shields and everything crit.

 

Not saying that top damage or top metals is where the game is at. But to hear people say that TM Mercs top scoreboards in damage all the time is laughable to say the least.

[Socratic-Irony]

This post tells me you don't know $ hit about your Class. you have 2 stuns a 4 sec and a 8 sec.

 

I kite people ALL THE TIME successfully. My Grav round norm hits for 800-3.5k depending on the person I've had back to back 3.5k hits followed by a 5.3 Demo round DEAD NOOB.

 

I can 1v2 almost all of the time at least long enough for help to get there and if I'm heal Speced Forget about it you aren't killing me EVER unless you send your whole team.

 

I regularly end WZ's with anywhere from 400-600k damage 30+ kills and 150-200k Healing if i'm dps speced Reverse those Numbers if I'm heal spec'ed.

 

As a level 50 merc, I'm not complaining about Tracer Missile because I'm Pyro-specced. But I will say that the sound and animation of Tracer Missile is FAR more obvious than Grav Round.

 

When my teammates and I hear tracer missile go off, we automatically whip out our stuns/interrupts because we know what's coming.

 

Grav round just isn't as annoying to listen to than TM, that's my reasoning as to why you can get your 5 Grav rounds when a Merc can't get 2 without getting interrupted/slaughtered.

[McGringo]

Oh, look! A tracer missile spammer is unhappy. How sad. No really, we all do care.

[Ortof]

Can't wait until the do something with TM. Edited March 15, 2012 by Ortof

[Rampagius]

I guess you all have other classes than mercs (probably sorc/sage and so on) so you can't understand what OP said. Do you really think that looking at how much damage a class do in a warzone is a way to judge a class? This IS how troll think.

In 1vs1 an Arsenal Merc is dust and everyone with a medium pvp experience know about that, it's an easy prey becuse it doesn't have any interupt, any absorb shield, any speed boost, not so many CCs (lot less than any other classes), a medium health pool (1k more than a sorc ), no hiding in combat, and so on, it has only tracer missile and hope to kill the enemy as fast as possibile, but with just an interrupt and he is gone

 

The problem with Arsenal Merc isn't the class itself, it has great DPS (but not the most) and low survivability, it is balanced this way, the problem are the other classes that have so much more with comparable DPS, health and better defences

 

p.s. bodyguard merc is like any other healer in this game (immortal but no DPS), pyrotech is a viable way but not so common and too much situational

 

This is the only person that made any sense in all the responses to my thread.

 

1. I am NOT trolling. If you really think that I'm trolling then you obviously haven't played a merc in level 50 pvp. Let me bold face this - I'm talking about level 50 PvP here.

 

2. All of you who seriously think that merc is ezmode in a level 50 wz, please post your gear and spec. The people claiming 500k or more damage are the ones that are really trolling here.

 

3. "Reroll nub" - I did, actually. But it doesn't change the fact that mercs are broken I wasted hours of my life leveling one up only to be horribly frustrated and disappointed at level 50.

 

4. Saying mercs are fine and then talking about healing spec, or trooper for that matter (different class all together lol) doesn't answer anything about merc DPS spec, which is the point of this topic.

 

5. I can only assume all the hostile responses are people who play the other classes that love beating a squishy merc who can barely fight back. I'm going to ask nicely that you refrain from trolling this thread because as I said in my first post, I'm looking for answers, not a debate.

[TheTopper]

I have played with all three of the Merc's tree's in both pvp and pve. I find that bodygaurd is AMAZING for pve, but lacks the high hitting heals that say the sorc gets, more of a increase armor. However with that said I did do quite well healing in pvp and more often than not broke 300k heals and 20k+ dmg. (note now im a noob at the pvp world). The arsenal is AMAZING, except for the fact that LoS is so important, an interupt or two really never phased me as i would just hit power shot or rail shot at that point. I will say it was the most frustrating tree to play in pvp though, and someone who could kite me would generally beat me. Now about the pyro, HOLY, well you know, I hit em with thermal, then a dot, then rail em, then unload to kill the CD on rail, nail em again, repeat. Nothing is more satisfying in my mind than watching someone try to kite me and LoS me, just to burn with my dot's. I dont do as well as i would like in pvp, and i contribute this to two thing. 1) i am a noob and didnt do pvp till i joined my guild, therefore dont have allot of pvp gear(so no expertise). 2)I only seem to lose when i dont have a full 4 group going in, communication is so key, and having a guild with vent, team speak or the like is pretty key. If you just cant seem to win a pvp, even if you have ful BM gear, i would look at how you are queing, a full que group is a winning team.

[Achyuta]

People like lists, and they are easier to read.

 

Mercs are broken at level 50 because:

• Incredibly low survivability - why am I still dying in a few hits with 543 expertise?
   
  
• Not nearly enough damage output to offset the lack of survivability. Instead of a glass-cannon, mercs feel more like a glass pea-shooter
   
  
• Lack of crowd control - 4 second electro dart on a long cooldown...THAT'S IT? Why can other classes interrupt, stun, root, snare, essentially SHUT ME DOWN yet all I have is a 4 second window that I might have to get 1-2 attacks off that get absorbed anyway???
   
  
• Kiting is impossible. I played arsenal and firebug and the supposed kiting abilities that last a whopping 2 seconds mean little to nothing when other classes have a disproportionately high number of gap closers
   
  
• Tracer is utterly useless. It hits for almost nothing and gets interrupted every fight. The point of tracer is to build up defensive and offensive buffs on me and my target. With so many people running away from fights and using LoS, interrupts, and stuns, I hardly ever see the full benefit of tracer buffs. Even when I do have the buffs maxed, I still can't put out enough damage offset my almost non-existent survivablity
  

 

I'm not trying to start a debate. I just want answers. If there are other mercs out there not having these issues, please tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'd love to continue to play the class since I've already invested a good amount of time into it.

 

It's your build. I'm a Pyro Merc, 56 Valor, and 545 Expertise. I have my good and bad games, but I normally do around 250k Damage (depending on the WZ) with a ratio of 30 kills to 5 deaths as an average. I'm able to kite and use my pvp experience to rely on for survivalbility.

 

Besides, Mercs are designed for long range damage or healing, not taking a lot of damage.

[Trathos]

For w/e reason if this isn't a troll post, Play Pyro...it's godly for merc dps in pvp. Tracer mercs get losed by anyone with half a brain and in intterupt in pvp. As pyro the 2 second slow happens over and over again everytime your gas cylinder activates...which is quite frequently when shooting rapid shots to get your heat down. Just practice with it...and you will be pwning ppl most of the time, because 9/10 times they think you are a tracer merc anyway.

[Achyuta]

For w/e reason if this isn't a troll post, Play Pyro...it's godly for merc dps in pvp.

 

This ^^

[Soulcheg]

very good defensive cool downs

 

Wait. You said "cool downS", so you mean we have many of them. Is 1.2 already out?

[Soulcheg]

• Incredibly low survivability - why am I still dying in a few hits with 543 expertise?
   
  
• Not nearly enough damage output to offset the lack of survivability. Instead of a glass-cannon, mercs feel more like a glass pea-shooter
   
  
• Lack of crowd control - 4 second electro dart on a long cooldown...THAT'S IT? Why can other classes interrupt, stun, root, snare, essentially SHUT ME DOWN yet all I have is a 4 second window that I might have to get 1-2 attacks off that get absorbed anyway???
   
  
• Kiting is impossible. I played arsenal and firebug and the supposed kiting abilities that last a whopping 2 seconds mean little to nothing when other classes have a disproportionately high number of gap closers
   
  
• Tracer is utterly useless. It hits for almost nothing and gets interrupted every fight. The point of tracer is to build up defensive and offensive buffs on me and my target. With so many people running away from fights and using LoS, interrupts, and stuns, I hardly ever see the full benefit of tracer buffs. Even when I do have the buffs maxed, I still can't put out enough damage offset my almost non-existent survivablity
  

 

1. Yes. 30% damage reduction does not give very much, if you focused by zerg, and in 1 vs 1 - there is too much interrupts in this game.

 

2. No. Damage is fine, though i never have criticals like melee class (5-11k AoE damage, and a week ago JG Mayhem has critted for 7100, so it's still possible after 1.1), or burn all hp down in 6-7 seconds like powertech in pyro do. Still, damage is fine.

 

3. Yes. Cryo grenade/electric dart for 4 second, knockback and 8 seconds stun, if noone hit target.

 

4. Yes. Every melee class in game can close the distance in a one..two...three. Force jumps/charges/battle cloak/act of dissapearing/etcetera etcetera. And if you in gunnery/arsenal - it's bad. TM/GR - 1.5 casttime + 0.5s animation, very easy to interrupt.

 

5. No. Armor debuff is awesome.

 

 

 

 

That's my point of view.

 

 

And sometimes, i think that Bioware wants Commando to become only PvE chars.

[Barberiann]

First, I will say that I somewhat agree with the OP's comments

 

Here are my thoughts on the Arsenal Spec BH's (my main toon):

1) We need a ranged interupt similar to Sorc's. Rocket punch and our Jet boost both need to be in melee range to "interupt" and that is laughable because we are a ranged class

 

2) The entire skill tree needs to be re-done to not focus 100% on Tracer Missle. I'm really excited to hear that Bioware is aware of this and adressing it in 1.2. I use every single one of the BH's abilities to my advantage in PvP, but for us to do any decent dps, we are FORCED to use Tracer Missle. It is our only filler move in between CD's and its the only filler move that hits for decent damage

 

3) The arsenal spec needs to have some sort of "kiting ability" such as the Firebug/Pyro tree does with the dot effect slow. This would give us some way to at least get away from melee for a tiny bit of time to cast

 

Overall, I'm just really looking forward to see what Bioware is planning for the changes to the Arsenal tree come 1.2. I've rolled healing and the pyro tree, but I also raid, so the re-spec costs get a bit ridiculous. Arsenal is by far the best for PvE, so they should make the spec at least viable in PvP as well. Just my two cents...

Edited March 15, 2012 by Barberiann