Has SWTOR "broken even" yet?

[Drewser]

yes way. the box was 50€ (which is roughly $75) ... and don't forget the CE (which was 150€, in dollar ~230)

 

No - unless you think all the retailers sold it for free and sent all the money they collected from sales to Bioware.

 

A generous estimate would be $50 per box.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Drewser

[Frostvein]

If they didn't they will soon.

 

Despite its shortcomings, there is a large playerbase in pure Star Wars fans that would pay for mostly anything from that IP.

 

You could literally take cow manure, box it up in a display case, and sell it as "Bantha Fodder" and people would buy it.

[RabidPopcorn]

I hate people like you, most people would rather have the chance to play the game, rather than wait 6 months to a year for them to fix some minor issues. They are literally very minor and have work-a-rounds and in no way, shape, or form game breaking.

 

 

If they didnt release the game, people would whine about it, when they did release the game, people still whine about it.

 

In the words of Arnold: STOP WHINING!

 

Not gonna completely disagree... But people didn't really whine for Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3, and Starcraft 2 came out really fine.

 

Responsiveness is not a minor issue. And the real gripe people are having is the low variety of content they have at lv50. If the game was released early, but such that the devs were able to keep content released at the same pace of people's leveling then maybe there wouldn't be so much 'whining'. (For most players, it takes (only) a month to get to 50 and I'm sure they were aware of that).

[RabidPopcorn]

I hate people like you that buy an unfished and sloppy game THEN defend it so publishers can continue pushing out half finished bugged pieces of clone copied crap because idiots will still buy it and then not only accept the bugs but defend them.

 

Agreed. (maybe he thinks the devs will friend him on facebook)

[Jahor]

I hate people like you, most people would rather have the chance to play the game, rather than wait 6 months to a year for them to fix some minor issues.

 

And I hate people like you.

 

When I pay real money for a comerciel product, I EXPECT a perfect and propper working product!

 

If I buy a bike, a TV or radio ... it MUST be tested BEFORE I buy it. It's not "we used a wheel which MIGHT be stable enough" or "sometimes your picture might have artefacts with this TV" or "ignore this scratching noice from the radio, we'll fix it later".

 

I just paid 50€? NO! With the pay2play model we all pay MUCH more. If you still playing it's allready far over 100€ and if you play it till end of the year it's close to 200€.

 

For 200€ there is no "be happy with what you get". For 200€ the comerciel produc MUST BE FINISHED AND PERFECT!

 

Hell, you guys from the US, you call the Court for every braindead stupid stuff ... even people who put their Hamsters into a Microwave can win against the producer. WHY do you except bugged and unfinished software?????????

 

PS: and NO, software isn't more difficult to produce then a Radio (a good one from Bose or Löwe). The days where software was a mysterie are over since 1970!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_%28programming_language%29

developed between 1969 and 1973

Edited March 15, 2012 by Jahor

[Frostvein]

Its the same argument I made in another thread.

 

I asked why this game launched with dozens of missing features, and I get flamed to hell and back for having "unrealistic expectations"

 

I didn't expect 7 years of content. I didn't expect the game to have incredible polish and be bug free. I expected the game to have a fair amount of features that other modern (and not so modern) MMO's come with. It didn't, yet people are telling me I'm impaitent and that this is how all MMO's launch?

 

Its like they make excuses for everything. At what point do we as gamers get to tell developers that this is unacceptable? I like the game. I'm just disappointed it was launched when it was. 1.2 should have been release.

[RabidPopcorn]

And I hate people like you.

 

When I pay real money for a comerciel product, I EXPECT a perfect and propper working product!

 

If I buy a bike, a TV or radio ... it MUST be tested BEFORE I buy it. It's not "we used a wheel which MIGHT be stable enough" or "sometimes your picture might have artefacts with this TV" or "ignore this scratching noice from the radio, we'll fix it later".

 

I just paid 50€? NO! With the pay2play model we all pay MUCH more. If you still playing it's allready far over 100€ and if you play it till end of the year it's close to 200€.

 

For 200€ there is no "be happy with what you get". For 200€ the comerciel produc MUST BE FINISHED AND PERFECT!

 

Hell, you guys from the US, you call the Court for every braindead stupid stuff ... even people who put their Hamsters into a Microwave can win against the producer. WHY do you except bugged and unfinished software?????????

 

PS: and NO, software isn't more difficult to produce then a Radio (a good one from Bose or Löwe). The days where software was a mysterie are over since 1970!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_%28programming_language%29

 

I realised it's like this for most games; it's like they're always the exception to the rule. From a commercial point of view it can get frustrating.

[Tadshackles]

Stop using pseudo-math.

 

Retailers don't just hand over 100% of sales to companies, that's dumb. In fact, retailers pay a large portion of the sale cost just to stock the game, and *shocknawe* keep the profits.

 

That's not even touching on publishing costs, costs of maintaining servers and support and development staff... It's gonna take a while before they "break even", if you can even measure that.

 

I bought the DIGITAL DOWNLOAD of the mid grade deluxe edition and it WAS THE SAME PRICE AS GAMESTOP

 

With Digital Downloads the game made EVEN more. I said average of 60 because of the 120 and 200 dollar deluxe editions as well as the digital versions, the versions that literally have ZERO overhead.

[kevlarto]

apparently it only needs to 500k subs to just maintain it each year, its on 2mil subs atm so its not dying any time soon

 

agree, and with all the box sales and digital downloads, they got some cash flow, I am glad to see some one else remembers, that 500k is a VERY profitable game, according to EA, the game is not dying like the doomsdayers would have you belive, I never see thier facts, it's always speculation and thier opinion, not real facts or links.

[Frostvein]

I bought the DIGITAL DOWNLOAD of the mid grade deluxe edition and it WAS THE SAME PRICE AS GAMESTOP

 

With Digital Downloads the game made EVEN more. I said average of 60 because of the 120 and 200 dollar deluxe editions as well as the digital versions, the versions that literally have ZERO overhead.

 

except that GAMESTOP GOT A HUGE CUT OF THE ORIGINAL 60 DOLLARS.

 

Bioware MIGHT see 20-30 bucks from store box sales.

 

Digital downloads cost them less and thus net them more profit, but there is still the transaction costs (~5$) as well as the overhead (more then likely negligible, but still existent)

[RabidPopcorn]

agree, and with all the box sales and digital downloads, they got some cash flow, I am glad to see some one else remembers, that 500k is a VERY profitable game, according to EA, the game is not dying like the doomsdayers would have you belive, I never see thier facts, it's always speculation and thier opinion, not real facts or links.

 

I agree, they're definitely making a lot of money; but just like *cough* Blizzard, how much they re-invest into the game for the players' benefit is another story.

[Dhariq]

I didn't expect 7 years of content. I didn't expect the game to have incredible polish and be bug free. I expected the game to have a fair amount of features that other modern (and not so modern) MMO's come with. It didn't, yet people are telling me I'm impaitent and that this is how all MMO's launch?

 

Its like they make excuses for everything. At what point do we as gamers get to tell developers that this is unacceptable? I like the game. I'm just disappointed it was launched when it was. 1.2 should have been release.

 

Kinda funny how computer games are always exused when it comes to selling products with bugs. I mean endgame things like Operations... look at SOA which is the highlight of EV... translate that to if MS Excel or Word would suck as badly, be filled with bugs and then released with all those bugs and never be fixed.

 

The latest thing they do now is btw to recommend you to post your bugs in the suggestion box. So SOA bugs is not even considered bugs anymore by Bioware customer support. Oh so you want the floor to always be there in phase 2... hmmm... nice idea, post that as a suggestion! They even sent me a link to the suggestion box.

[Frostvein]

The latest thing they do now is btw to recommend you to post your bugs in the suggestion box. So SOA bugs are not even considered bugs anymore by Bioware customer support. "Oh so you want the floor to always be there in phase 2... hmmm... nice idea, post that as a suggestion!" They even sent me a link to the suggestion box.

 

Hilarious if true.

[Celorilm]

I doubt the net return on each sold copy is more than 30 to 40 $...

 

And this is taking into account the fact that the return on digital copies, sold through Origin, is much better (not 100% though as they have to develop, maintain and support the Origin platform as well), and that a fraction of the sold copies were collectors.

 

Based upon this much more realistic hypothesis, I would say they are still quite far from breaking even... Roughly estimated, about 20 million months of net subscription fees far...

Edited March 15, 2012 by Celorilm

[TheOnlyKyrenS]

Should be close now to breaking even. Think of it like this, $60 per person and there is 2 million people that bought the game so that's $120 million right there and if atleast half those people resubbed for the past 2 paying months, that's another 30-60 million atleast right there. so we are looking at aroun 150-180 million they have made not subtracting running costs and other expenses since launch.

 

atleast that's what i think. i know that the full $60 for the game didn't go to BW/EA but its around that.

[Invictos]

Stop using pseudo-math.

 

Retailers don't just hand over 100% of sales to companies, that's dumb. In fact, retailers pay a large portion of the sale cost just to stock the game, and *shocknawe* keep the profits.

 

That's not even touching on publishing costs, costs of maintaining servers and support and development staff... It's gonna take a while before they "break even", if you can even measure that.

 

Yeah, pretty much what Tekka said. God only knows what the tax situation is with all of the different localities involved, too.

 

On the other hand, when a business makes a huge investment like the one we're discussing here, no one really expects to make all of the money back immediately. The idea is that you (hopefully) recoup your cost in the nearish future (say, within the first year or so), and eventually you make money hand over fist because your revenue stream is (hopefully) much larger than it would have been if you'd invested less.

 

So if the current numbers (roughly 1.7 million subscribers prior to the Asian launch) stand up over time, then SWTOR is in a good position. The exact date on which EA breaks even is unknowable and frankly unimportant; from what little info we do have, we can reasonably guesstimate that they'll break even (on the initial investment, anyway) at some point relatively soon.

 

But they haven't yet.

[Drakinor]

few bugs????? no everyday I experience a bug and report it,it is what all of us should do.

 

And if we dont experience a bug everyday? Why is it hard for people to realize just cuz you see a bug doesnt mean everyone experiences it?

[DeathDeathDie]

It has or is very close to breaking even and my criticism of this game is that the 1.2 patch that is coming out should have been the release version of the game. Instead I got to waste basically 3 months of my paid time to play the game in a beta form. I would have gladly waiting to play it in March rather then December which was probably EA's urging and the forced launch probably hurt Biowares image more so then if they would have delayed and released a more finished final product.

 

There is something that can be said about integrity when developing a consumer product and there is more to be said about what is minimally acceptable from a quality control stand point if this is where the bar has been lowered too then damn, the competitors get to shoot pretty low in the future.

 

As it stands I am not sure even with 1.2 on the horizon if I will resub for even 1 month more its just one of those things where I see what should have been from the beginning vs. what actually happened. And I wont entertain the argument of comparing the game with other games at launch this game had 7 years of development time and at its launch I am left wondering just what they spent those 7 years on. And Further yes games like rift had huge issues at launch but that had a 5 year development time and has been out a year longer so SWTOR with its 7 year development time should be a full year ahead of it.

 

 

Rift: 5 years of development and 50 million in Development.

SWTOR: 7 years of development and 140million in Development.

 

If their issues are/ were the same at launch: SWTOR = 40% more time to make @ nearly 3X's the price.

[Felioats]

Typically, breaking even takes about a year.

 

Per someone in the industry I once spoke to.

[Dayfax]

With Digital Downloads the game made EVEN more. I said average of 60 because of the 120 and 200 dollar deluxe editions as well as the digital versions, the versions that literally have ZERO overhead.

 

Because bandwidth is free and IT costs are nonexistent?

 

Okay.

[texasfanboy]

yes way. the box was 50€ (which is roughly $75) ... and don't forget the CE (which was 150€, in dollar ~230)

 

While EA/BW probably make %100 profit on digital copies sold through Origin, the margin on physical copies is very low.

 

There are manufacturing costs, packaging costs, distribution costs, and the retailer's cut.

 

There's a reason why EU players are paying so much more than US players for the game. Shipping cargo overseas isn't cheap. Heck, shipping freight domestically isn't exactly a bargain, either, and as gas prices go up, so does the cost of shipping hundreds of cases of DVDs to retailer warehouses. I wouldn't be surprised if there were taxes or duties associated with importing the product as well.

[JaycenLightrider]

OK retailers only take around 20% of the cut from Box Sales.(if they are lucky...some get in the 10-15 percent range) AND

We ONLY know the Box sales numbers (but can estimate that a minimum of 25% over the Box Sales were digital sales.)

 

So take 2.5 Million total sales at 50.00 Each and subtract 20 percent from that. Then take another 10 percent to cover manufacturing costs of the actual box, disc etc.

 

Note that we are NOT counting Deluxe or Collectors Editions here either.

 

$125 Million

-10% ($12,500,000)

 

$112.5 Million

-20%($22,500,000)

 

90 Million Box Sales

 

76.5 Million in Subs For 3 Months (at 1.7 Million Subs)

 

 

166.5 Million Total ( Also remember that the 200 Million number everyone throws around was a guesstimate...no one knows that it cost that much. I have read that it was closer to 140-160 million TOTAL cost...)

 

NOTE: Everyone acts like Voice Over is ungodly expensive when actually it is NOT that big of a cost in the grand scheme of things. Engineers for BW don't get paid more than 40K a year and Voice actors aren't making Millions for this type of work or even hundreds of thousands. Its good money hourly but it isn't that many hours of work.

 

 

This is NOT counting the at least 250 K Deluxe and Collectors editions and being VERY conservative in regards to the download market.

 

All in all in 2 months they WILL be at break even regardless of the real investment, and for ANY game that is nothing short of amazing!

 

Then it is pure profit from there, minus Lucas' Cut of anywhere from 35-45% and operating costs which I am sure run in the Millions per month range.

 

Nonetheless, this game is going to be very profitable.

[Invictos]

Should be close now to breaking even. Think of it like this, $60 per person and there is 2 million people that bought the game so that's $120 million right there and if atleast half those people resubbed for the past 2 paying months, that's another 30-60 million atleast right there. so we are looking at aroun 150-180 million they have made not subtracting running costs and other expenses since launch.

 

atleast that's what i think. i know that the full $60 for the game didn't go to BW/EA but its around that.

 

Forget for a moment that EA/Bioware has a bunch of expenses that we can't reasonably estimate. Think of it as an individual, private citizen:

 

Let's say that you, as an individual private citizen, make $100k per year in salary. Let's further assume that you pay about $40k in taxes once all is said and done (Federal, payroll, state, local).

 

Now let's say you take out a $100k loan at zero interest (totally unrealistic, I know). You can make back that money in a year, right? No. In order to make enough money to repay the loan, you have to earn a gross amount of 100 / (1 - 0.4) = 166 thousand dollars, or about 20 months at your current salary.

 

The money you spend, in other words, is more valuable on a dollar-per-dollar basis than the money you earn, because the money you spend has already been taxed.

 

I don't claim that the cost/tax situation for EA/Bioware is anywhere near that simple. I don't even claim that the situation I laid out would be as simple as I described it for a private citizen. It's just an example to illustrate that you can't equate gross revenue with money in your hand. Apples and oranges.

 

All of that said, though, the game appears to be in very good shape. EA doesn't need to make back its initial investment over night.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Invictos

[amnie]

While EA/BW probably make %100 profit on digital copies sold through Origin, the margin on physical copies is very low.

 

There are manufacturing costs, packaging costs, distribution costs, and the retailer's cut.

 

There's a reason why EU players are paying so much more than US players for the game. Shipping cargo overseas isn't cheap. Heck, shipping freight domestically isn't exactly a bargain, either, and as gas prices go up, so does the cost of shipping hundreds of cases of DVDs to retailer warehouses. I wouldn't be surprised if there were taxes or duties associated with importing the product as well.

 

they didn't ship it overseas. my copy specifically states 'made in the EU'. (and no, the game costs more here because we earn more here. or are you going to tell me my monthy subscription is more because they need to ship it to me first?)

[Arkerus]

It has or is very close to breaking even and my criticism of this game is that the 1.2 patch that is coming out should have been the release version of the game. Instead I got to waste basically 3 months of my paid time to play the game in a beta form. I would have gladly waiting to play it in March rather then December which was probably EA's urging and the forced launch probably hurt Biowares image more so then if they would have delayed and released a more finished final product.

 

There is something that can be said about integrity when developing a consumer product and there is more to be said about what is minimally acceptable from a quality control stand point if this is where the bar has been lowered too then damn, the competitors get to shoot pretty low in the future.

 

As it stands I am not sure even with 1.2 on the horizon if I will resub for even 1 month more its just one of those things where I see what should have been from the beginning vs. what actually happened. And I wont entertain the argument of comparing the game with other games at launch this game had 7 years of development time and at its launch I am left wondering just what they spent those 7 years on. And Further yes games like rift had huge issues at launch but that had a 5 year development time and has been out a year longer so SWTOR with its 7 year development time should be a full year ahead of it.

 

 

Rift: 5 years of development and 50 million in Development.

SWTOR: 7 years of development and 140million in Development.

 

If their issues are/ were the same at launch: SWTOR = 40% more time to make @ nearly 3X's the price.

 

Here's a tip:

 

You chose to play for those 3 months. If you really were THAT UNHAPPY as you claim (and you weren't) you wouldn't have paid for 3 months.

 

Personally, I don't pay for things I don't like.

 

If you did, and then you come here to complain about it but you still paid your money each month then you only have yourself to blame.