oakamp Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 what raid need more PT dps? why most guild hate PT dps in raid? PT dps can do well in HMs, why most ppl think PT dps is worst than others in HM/NM raids? why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobinator Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Simple....its Powertech. "YOU"RE SUPPOSE TO BE THE TANK GO SHIELDTECH" It was like with Dark Templar from AoC...capable DPS but its a tanking class...we dont need tanking classes trying to DPS. Its like if your class has tanking tree or healer tree people want to automatically deduct IQ points for not being that tree. Edited March 14, 2012 by Bobinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osicat Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Lol, fail imao. Most classes with a few exeptions can fill a alternative role in this game. Merc is a healer class so we dont want them to dps? Incs can heal so no dps for them eather and ofc assasins is also a tank klass so no need for them as dps. You missing the point, al classes can go dps if they spec for it, it was even the intention from BW. About powertec dps as long we dont have game logs its hard to say but sims on sith warrior show we do good dmg compared to other classes/spec. If we look at PvP side we nearly always top dps and dmg done in WZ,s if we spec for it. Problem is that Advance P is a cluster**** spec atm. Pyro on the other hand is fluent, smooth and have a serious dps output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Sounds like a guild doesn't know the damage potential of a PT. The burst alone makes it good for some fights. I run a lot of pug HM EVs for fun and the amount of people that still fail at switching to mind traps on SOA make me want to punch a hole through my laptop. Being able to solo those fairly quickly come in very very handy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'd be willing to bet that I'm the highest DPS in my raid. But I have no idea because Bioware is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnarkillXIII Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) As someone who has a level 50 PT I am dissapointed that people don't want us for their raids but I get it at the same time. I play Pyro Tech and my burst damage is crazy, but if I were in a long boss fight and were unfortunate enough to not get enough procs to keep my heat down... Well then thats the moment they would regret bringing me because my damage goes from awesome to auto attack. Its not saying that we are not usefull in a Raid, but why would they take huge burst with the possiblilty of over heating over a Shield Tech that could tank and hold aggro for the whole fight allowing DPS with more consistant damage to burn down the boss. Pyro Techs belong in the WZs anyway Edited March 14, 2012 by GnarkillXIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Simple....its Powertech. "YOU"RE SUPPOSE TO BE THE TANK GO SHIELDTECH" It was like with Dark Templar from AoC...capable DPS but its a tanking class...we dont need tanking classes trying to DPS. Its like if your class has tanking tree or healer tree people want to automatically deduct IQ points for not being that tree. Yea do not listen to people that say BS like that. Pyro have insane PvE dps. I argue it is probably the highest, OR, at the very least, right up there with a "good" marauder. PERIOD, end of story. Like someone said. Look at the scorecard of a PvP Huttball or even Voidstar, and you will see that Pyros are in the top 3 all the time. I know I am usually 1st or 2nd in 90% of the games I play. Any raid leader who refuses a PT dps in a raid, should be put on the /ignore list, since he is clueless. Refusing a top notch dps, in heavy armor, one that can save a wipe with well timed taunts, one that can fill the role of an offtank, one that has the highest AOE burst on trash, is an idiot. Edited March 14, 2012 by Agooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) As someone who has a level 50 PT I am dissapointed that people don't want us for their raids but I get it at the same time. I play Pyro Tech and my burst damage is crazy, but if I were in a long boss fight and were unfortunate enough to not get enough procs to keep my heat down... Well then thats the moment they would regret bringing me because my damage goes from awesome to auto attack. Its not saying that we are not usefull in a Raid, but why would they take huge burst with the possiblilty of over heating over a Shield Tech that could tank and hold aggro for the whole fight allowing DPS with more consistant damage to burn down the boss. Pyro Techs belong in the WZs anyway Oh you're speaking of a PT who "just" specced Pyro for the first time and over heats, right? because any other Pyro that is semi decent will never run into heat issues, while still having awesome dps that is more consistent than any other class in the raid. Most raid fights require you to be on the move all the time. Only Pyros, then followed by Operatives and marauders have the ability to constantly put dps pressure on the boss. 99% of our attacks are instant, and we only need to be at melee range every 9sec. The only reason to not take a dps PT into a raid is if you are completely clueless. Edited March 14, 2012 by Agooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I have no trouble getting into my main guild ops group as a powertech. High DPS and the ability to offtank for things like multiple turrets or when main tank is mind trapped and SOA needs leading to a pillar (or if maintank is mind trapped / being thrown, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakamp Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Any raid leader who refuses a PT dps in a raid, should be put on the /ignore list, since he is clueless. Refusing a top notch dps, in heavy armor, one that can save a wipe with well timed taunts, one that can fill the role of an offtank, one that has the highest AOE burst on trash, is an idiot. i know, but science asian time zone guild is so few, we dont have much choice to select an non-idiot raid leader, so my question is as OP, and u can see most guild recruit dont wanna PT as a dps role, they wanna commando/merc, why? someone told me because PT lack of long CC, why BW dont design more raid need pyro dps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) i know, but science asian time zone guild is so few, we dont have much choice to select an non-idiot raid leader, so my question is as OP, and u can see most guild recruit dont wanna PT as a dps role, they wanna commando/merc, why? someone told me because PT lack of long CC, why BW dont design more raid need pyro dps? Man, /gquit and find a much better guild. Create your own and invite all the PTs no one want and you got all your tanks and Dps you will need, just get a couple of healers and you can farm Ops. You need ZERO CC on raids. If your raid leader is calling for CCs on trash, tell him that's why you need PTs so they can raid like big boys. This isnt a Flashpoint. Ops are all about boss fights. There are many situations where a PT dps is way better than a merc. Boss fights that require a lot of movements, mercs' dps goes down, while PTs stays constant. Edited March 15, 2012 by Agooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) There's nothing wrong with CCing appropriate trash (e.g. ones who heal the others), but you don't need all 8 players to have high amounts of CC. 1 or 2 usually do it, and I find it's rare not to have at least 2 sorcs who can do the CCing (I usually run with an Operative healer too who can use sap as required). On a side note, our CC in the form of carbonize can be brilliant at forcing trash to stay in AoE's, even if it does only stun then for a couple of GCD's. I often death from above and get agro from some (especially when using cooldowns - given the short cooldown on them there's no need to save exclusively for the bosses), then I run through the group and carbonise them all and do a quick 180 degree turn to flamethrower them when AoEing many trash mobs. Edited March 15, 2012 by Jestunhi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakamp Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) ya, right , in our primary time,my guild members' population is more than the ENTIRE IMP FLEET,ya, u can quit, and wont find enough ppl to do a simple HM FP,dont even think about building a new guild. In our time zone server no guild recruit PT dps,and the ping lag is so horrible,and most important is that re-roll in a healthy Asia server from lv1 is the most stupid thing to me. Edited March 16, 2012 by oakamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) ya, right , in our primary time, my guild members' population is more than the ENTIRE IMP FLEET, ya, u can quit, and wont find enough ppl to do a simple HM FP, dont even think about building a new guild. In our time zone server no guild recruit PT dps, and the ping lag is so horrible, and most important is that re-roll in a healthy Asia server from lv1 is the most stupid thing to me. Well then I do not know what is it that you need here. You asked if PTs are viable in raids as dps. Anyone with half a brain will say absolutely yes. From what you're saying is you are on a server with players with less than half a brain. There is nothing much we can do about that. If it helps, direct your Guild leader to this forum and we will happily rip every one of his unfounded arguments apart and maybe even embarrass him in the process. Edited March 16, 2012 by Agooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahh Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Had a good read.... Tank = In regards to Tank DPS (600-720 DPS in operations full columi/battlemaster mix & few item mod changes) sometimes drops to 550's if I screw up the rotation lol.... but am fairly happy with that outcome as tank. DPS = In Tionese my first parse was 800's, and by the time I got the rotation down I was just over 1000dps... have not raided yet but was operations dummy using pyro. Maybe can do more, didnt really test more than an hour. I also hate CC if they are not required.... although looking forward to 1.3 for more threat.... lol Healers love to hate me... im the reason I didnt roll a healer. Edited June 7, 2012 by Rahh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Pyro's in Rakatas can push over 1400dps on dummy, and closer to 1600dps with Campain/BH/Augmented. There is absolutely nothing bad about a PT dps. In fact, dps PTs can save a raid from wiping with a well timed Taunt on a boss if the tank is about to go down or in the process of being rezzed. Probably the ONLY dps class that can maintain constant dps pressure while on the move, which is very useful in many boss fights. Pyro PTs also have arguably the absolute highest BURST dps, which comes in handy in bosses with multiple phases, etc... There is really absolutely NO reason to dismiss ANY AC from a raid, let alone a dps PT. Any guild that says no to a particular AC for raiding, is not a guild worth bothering with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_laced Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Yea do not listen to people that say BS like that. Pyro have insane PvE dps. I argue it is probably the highest, OR, at the very least, right up there with a "good" marauder. PERIOD, end of story. Like someone said. Look at the scorecard of a PvP Huttball or even Voidstar, and you will see that Pyros are in the top 3 all the time. I know I am usually 1st or 2nd in 90% of the games I play. Any raid leader who refuses a PT dps in a raid, should be put on the /ignore list, since he is clueless. Refusing a top notch dps, in heavy armor, one that can save a wipe with well timed taunts, one that can fill the role of an offtank, one that has the highest AOE burst on trash, is an idiot. In our raids typically it goes like this: Sorcerers Sniper Pyrotech Marauder Merc The sorcs are doing insane damge, with the sniper and PT's about the same. 100 dps lower is the Marauders and mercs. The bad thing though is PT's are melee range dependent for max dps, and depending on your melee group already, may not be wanted. I finished right behind the 2 sorcs when I dps'd in half Rakata, half columi on HM Stormcaller at about 1200dps, and I am the MT for my guild, so never get to dps so really never practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teioh_White Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Strange, our Sorc are always closer to the bottom, while the Mara and PT have noticible leads. Some fights like Kelphass and Ghargj and Foreman can seriously skew a parser, of course, as Force Storm can be used on the add phases. If mara still had their 1 rage Sweeping Slash, I bet they'd rack up some fairly crazy damage in the lizard phase of Kelphass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) In our raids typically it goes like this: Sorcerers Sniper Pyrotech Marauder Merc The sorcs are doing insane damge, with the sniper and PT's about the same. 100 dps lower is the Marauders and mercs. The bad thing though is PT's are melee range dependent for max dps, and depending on your melee group already, may not be wanted. It seems that both your PT and Marauder are either in MUCH worse gear than the rest of the raid, or they have not managed to learn a rotation and whatnot. Scratch that, even if a Sorc is in better gear, they still will end up doing less than a PT, Marauder, and a sniper. Marauder and PT should be the top 2 dps in EVERY raid. Period. Just by telling us that the Marauder comes in 4th, clearly shows that there is something really wrong going on in the raid. I finished right behind the 2 sorcs when I dps'd in half Rakata, half columi on HM Stormcaller at about 1200dps, and I am the MT for my guild, so never get to dps so really never practice. That makes sense. You need to practice alot on a dps PT to get decent output. AP requires practice to optimize priority on their abilities, and Pyros need practice to manage their heat. The trend in a raid is more like this: Marauder/Pyro other DPS PT Sniper/Jugg/Merc Sorc And like someone else said, Pyros only need to be in melee range every 9 sec. AP are more melee centric in PvE. in half rakata/columi, you should be seeing 1300-1400dps on a dummy. Edited June 7, 2012 by Agooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_laced Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) It seems that both your PT and Marauder are either in MUCH worse gear than the rest of the raid, or they have not managed to learn a rotation and whatnot. Scratch that, even if a Sorc is in better gear, they still will end up doing less than a PT, Marauder, and a sniper. Marauder and PT should be the top 2 dps in EVERY raid. Period. Just by telling us that the Marauder comes in 4th, clearly shows that there is something really wrong going on in the raid. That makes sense. You need to practice alot on a dps PT to get decent output. AP requires practice to optimize priority on their abilities, and Pyros need practice to manage their heat. The trend in a raid is more like this: Marauder/Pyro other DPS PT Sniper/Jugg/Merc Sorc And like someone else said, Pyros only need to be in melee range every 9 sec. AP are more melee centric in PvE. in half rakata/columi, you should be seeing 1300-1400dps on a dummy. Completely incorrect. You are not taking into account the fight mechanics at all. In a perfect world, non-moving fight I will contend PT's can compete with a Sorc or be above. But any double dotting scenario, which every encounter in EC is, you will lose everytime. - Z and T - Sorcs can effectively double dot both and stay just out of fearful range because of our positioning of both mobs. - F and S - Again, double dotting like champs on the two tanks, keeping dots on one tank while dpsn'g the adds in the shields. - Vorgath - Ranged add killing while Marauders and PT's (to an extent) sit twiddling their thumbs waiting for something to do. - Kephess - Double dotting the first set of droids, dotting the warriors as they are pulled out, and then aoe'ng the smaller trandoshans, etc. For instance, last night the logs show on Stormcaller: Sorcs - 1500 and 1400. PT - 1400 Marauder - 1400 and 1200 Sin 1050 Mercs - 1000 and 1040 Sniper - 1050 (to be fair, he died due to shield breaking) Merc - 1000 to 1100 With regards to me, in that Half and Half gear, I pull 1500 on the Operations dummy consistent. But 1500 on a dummy does not translate well to fights like Z and T where we literally have to call a stop to dps and wait for 15 secs for the stupid rock to throw. Stormcaller I do amazingly well and finish just under the sorcs within 100 dps, because if heat allows I will throw on a dot to the other tank. Plus I can position myself on the adds in the shield to get at least 2/3 of them with Flame Thrower. I haven't dps'd on Kephess to know, I am always tanking. Merc and Sin are the lowest of our dps right now and all are above 1k. Our snipers are typically much higher than what last night showed, but we sat 2 of the main snipers and brought in a trial. Edited June 7, 2012 by pure_laced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nDjiin Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 In our raids typically it goes like this: Sorcerers Sniper Pyrotech Marauder Merc The sorcs are doing insane damge, with the sniper and PT's about the same. 100 dps lower is the Marauders and mercs. The bad thing though is PT's are melee range dependent for max dps, and depending on your melee group already, may not be wanted. I finished right behind the 2 sorcs when I dps'd in half Rakata, half columi on HM Stormcaller at about 1200dps, and I am the MT for my guild, so never get to dps so really never practice. He knows his stuff. I have a full campaign Pyrotech and I can put out as much dps on average as any other guild member - when I am needed to do on the move burst, only a marauder can equal / better me. A great class and only a foolish raid leader over looks a PT DPS. I would like to see a bit more mobility however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 He knows his stuff. I have a full campaign Pyrotech and I can put out as much dps on average as any other guild member - when I am needed to do on the move burst, only a marauder can equal / better me. A great class and only a foolish raid leader over looks a PT DPS. I would like to see a bit more mobility however. My guild prefers me to dps over our assassins. I Play Advanced prototype and hang with all the dps, than I switch to Pyro for some crap fights where you have to move constantly, and outdps the whole group. My brother who plays a sniper very well, laughs when I zoom past him and end up 6 percent ahead of everyone despite havign to constantly move. I prefer AP, but on some fights Pyro's slightly larger range is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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