What is bioware doing for melee dps?

[Darth_Bond]

And their feasibility in endgame raids (HM/nightmare modes)

 

At the moment, your taking a liability if you take a melee dps, the endgame operations all favour ranged dps (This doesnt mean it cant be done with melee)

 

What is bioware doing, in 1.2 or earlier to ensure melee dps are just as competitive AND desirable in raids?

[GellonSW]

based on the patch notes more like nerfing than helping melee DPS.

[Azzras]

based on the patch notes more like nerfing than helping melee DPS.

 

Based on what patch notes?

 

1.2 is a major overhaul for a lot of classes, and those notes have not been released.

[Azzras]

To back up my previous statement:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3346920#edit3346920

 

 

Nobody outside the building has seen the patch notes for 1.2 yet. So whoever is reporting anything regarding the class changes in 1.2 is likely doing so based on second or third hand commentary from someone who might - or might not - have seen the patch notes.

 

I got asked some questions regarding individual classes by people at the Guild Summit and have answered all of them. When / if these people decide to divulge those answers is up to them.

 

In regards to comments about 'relative silence about class X': We generally do not comment on balance related plans or findings on the Forums, for any class, until we have made a firm decision to change something and the patch that does so is on the Public Test Server. Doing anything else would limit options and create unreasonable expectations.

 

We do, at rare occasions, hint at upcoming changes (e.g. in a Q&A), but these cases are exceptions.

 

Yes, you may say 'Georg, then give us the real information'. That's fair, we totally appreciate that you guys are impatient. However, giving you that information requires it to be final, and it is not. It will be final enough for initial public consumption when patch 1.2 is on PTS.

 

It's tempting to give snippets and hints about these changes here, now, to calm people down - but all that will accomplish is everyone who isn't getting their information will cry foul. It's happening already based on the article you are referencing ("Why are you nerfing X but not Y"), which is completely void of any details. On the internet, saying X means that everyone else hears 'Not Y'.

 

So:

 

Yes, I want you to have that information, but I want everyone to get it at the same time, when it is ready, and I want you to get the full picture. Thus, you will all get it with the full patch notes on PTS. Once that information is there, you can test the changes on the server and voice your feedback as usual and yes, some people will be happy, some won't.

 

If we ever reach the point where every class thinks they are completely balanced and everything is great, I'll take the red pill and unplug from the matrix.

[cbowsin]

Based on what patch notes?

 

1.2 is a major overhaul for a lot of classes, and those notes have not been released.

 

It is just doom and gloomers. When they take breaks from the interwebs they stand outside to get some air while holding a sign saying 'The End is Near"

 

I never heard mDPS were not viable class in Ops. Must be a specific server mentality thing.

[AJediKnight]

I never heard mDPS were not viable class in Ops. Must be a specific server mentality thing.

 

Then you heard wrong. Typical ops makeup includes 1 assassin. That's it. Any additional melee DPS gimps the group.

[Darth_Bond]

It is just doom and gloomers. When they take breaks from the interwebs they stand outside to get some air while holding a sign saying 'The End is Near"

 

I never heard mDPS were not viable class in Ops. Must be a specific server mentality thing.

 

actually just about EVERYONE knows melee dps are a LIABILITY, sure you can pull it off, but you'd be much better off with rdps.

 

its kind of like saying, Operative healers can heal, sure they can, but operative healing and sorc/sage healing are worlds apart...

[Muskaan]

its kind of like saying, Operative healers can heal, sure they can, but operative healing and sorc/sage healing are worlds apart...

 

Now, now.. leave Sorcs out of it Dr Ray plays Sorcs

 

In reality, melee DPS is kinda a liability atm. The fights are designed to favor ranged a LOT.

 

That being said, playing melee classes are a lot of fun. Ranged gameplay is rather meh.

[Meurik]

actually just about EVERYONE knows melee dps are a LIABILITY, sure you can pull it off, but you'd be much better off with rdps.

 

its kind of like saying, Operative healers can heal, sure they can, but operative healing and sorc/sage healing are worlds apart...

 

Did a full run through Karagga's Palace (Normal anyways), and we were atleast 3 Melee (2 dps + 1 tank). Went off without any major issues (the occasional death due to some of us never having done that place before).

 

Must be a bunch of "min/maxing elitist jerks" who believe that x class is a liability, quite possibly due to a misconception that x does too little damage, or has too low survivability. The fact is, all classes in their current form are more than capable in any facet of the game.

 

And 1.2 is bringing a rebalance in some areas...

[Darth_Bond]

Did a full run through Karagga's Palace (Normal anyways), and we were atleast 3 Melee (2 dps + 1 tank). Went off without any major issues (the occasional death due to some of us never having done that place before).

 

Must be a bunch of "min/maxing elitist jerks" who believe that x class is a liability, quite possibly due to a misconception that x does too little damage, or has too low survivability. The fact is, all classes in their current form are more than capable in any facet of the game.

 

And 1.2 is bringing a rebalance in some areas...

 

 

 

heres how it goes in TOR

 

normal = super easy mode

 

hard mode = wows normal mode

 

nightmare mode = wows hard mode

 

 

and trust me, melee are a sizable liability in operations, especially in hardmodes / nightmare modes

 

 

similarly, i make my case that the same happens to any non sorc healers

 

BH and operative healers are nowhere near sorc healer capabilities.

[Viscidslime]

heres how it goes in TOR

 

normal = super easy mode

 

hard mode = wows normal mode

 

nightmare mode = wows hard mode

 

 

and trust me, melee are a sizable liability in operations, especially in hardmodes / nightmare modes

 

 

similarly, i make my case that the same happens to any non sorc healers

 

BH and operative healers are nowhere near sorc healer capabilities.

 

This is true, however.. Speaking from a melee perspective, I honestly dont think its going to break the game, just make things more interesting.

 

Besides, who ever said easy was fun?

[Goretzu]

To back up my previous statement:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3346920#edit3346920

 

 

 

It is true, by the time it's on PT it is pretty much completely final.

[grucho]

I love how each and every MMO has this problem, melee being worse than range in PvE content. Solution, give every melee class 5/10% damage bonus increase over range and voila! Problem solved! Melee should always do atleast 5% more dps than even best range class in PvE. Edited March 12, 2012 by grucho

[Reenolols]

What? Melee are just fine in hm & nm if they play correctly.

[Viscidslime]

I love how each and every MMO has this problem, melee being worse than range in PvE content. Solution, give every melee class 5/10% damage bonus increase over range and voila! Problem solved! Melee should always do atleast 5% more dps than even best range class in PvE.

 

Nah, that isnt the answer.. that would cause more harm than good.

 

Simplest answer is a penalty for Rdps in boss encounters, limiting their capability.. thus balancing M+R dps.

 

Next idea I introduce, will be trademarked.. You can have that Bioware... youre welcome.

 

I Kid I kid.

[Meurik]

heres how it goes in TOR

 

normal = super easy mode

 

hard mode = wows normal mode

 

nightmare mode = wows hard mode

 

 

and trust me, melee are a sizable liability in operations, especially in hardmodes / nightmare modes

 

 

similarly, i make my case that the same happens to any non sorc healers

 

BH and operative healers are nowhere near sorc healer capabilities.

 

Here's how it REALLY goes:

 

normal = Beginner Mode

hard = Experienced Mode

nightmare = Elitist Mode

 

To the "vast majority" of raiders, I believe Hard Mode is more than adequate. Only the "elitists" at the very top, partake in Nightmare Mode. Which is fine. The ones who do Nightmare Mode, I assume are also the "top 1% who run through all the latest raiding content, in a matter of days/weeks.

 

I never said that me, or the guild I raid with was "terribad" for having run Normal Mode Karagga's Palace. As I said before, some of us had never done the place, and as such wasn't sure what to expect. The guild has full intentions to set their sights on Hard Mode runs only, within a week or so. I'm in a rather casual guild after all, so I don't expect to be running Nightmare Mode anytime soon.

[lollermittens]

Our main 8-man OPs group is currently composed of the following:

• 1 Assasin (Tank)
  
• 1 Sniper
  
• 2 Marauders
  
• 4 Sorcerers
  

 

As you can see, we do have 3 melees in the group and we have absolutely no problems in clearing KP (takes between 1hr - 1hr15min) or clearing EV (takes 1hr - 2hrs depending on how glitchy Soa and his pyramids are).

 

Granted, both the Marauders (I am one of them) have both Rakata weapons and at least 3 Rakata PvE pieces, but if anything, we are essential to the Soa fight since Marauder #1 uses his Bloodthirst after the first drop of the pillar while Marauder #2 uses his Bloodthirst on pillar drop number 2... As you could imagine, by the third pillar drop (if the tank/healers haven't gotten mind-trapped unluckily) and no glitching, we can take down the hardest boss (arguably) in the game without any problems and we're carrying three melees in the group.

 

However, it goes without saying that for almost all fights, ranged DPS is highly superior since it does not have to deal with positioning, knockbacks or any of the other non-sense melee classes have to deal with on a consistent basis: the 2 seconds I'm taking to running back to where the boss is 2 seconds of DPS lost that ranged DPS aren't losing.

Edited March 12, 2012 by lollermittens

[Viscidslime]

Here's how it REALLY goes:

 

normal = Beginner Mode

hard = Experienced Mode

nightmare = Elitist Mode

 

To the "vast majority" of raiders, I believe Hard Mode is more than adequate. Only the "elitists" at the very top, partake in Nightmare Mode. Which is fine. The ones who do Nightmare Mode, I assume are also the "top 1% who run through all the latest raiding content, in a matter of days/weeks.

 

I never said that me, or the guild I raid with was "terribad" for having run Normal Mode Karagga's Palace. As I said before, some of us had never done the place, and as such wasn't sure what to expect. The guild has full intentions to set their sights on Hard Mode runs only, within a week or so. I'm in a rather casual guild after all, so I don't expect to be running Nightmare Mode anytime soon.

 

Im sorry, but being the best, doesnt make you elitist.. your attitude does.

[Vlaxitov]

It is just doom and gloomers. When they take breaks from the interwebs they stand outside to get some air while holding a sign saying 'The End is Near"

 

I never heard mDPS were not viable class in Ops. Must be a specific server mentality thing.

 

Thats funny because I raid, and our guild never takes more than one melee dps at a time if we can help it. The one melee dps we do bring each week is more obligatory than anything else.

 

You're just a fanboy running an apologetics campaign in these forums ready to jump down anyone's throat who says anything less than ZOMG this is the best game evah. In this case the OP's concern is legit, and he sounds more like someone who wants to play this game than a "doom & gloomer."

[Vlaxitov]

Here's how it REALLY goes:

 

normal = Beginner Mode

hard = Experienced Mode

nightmare = Elitist Mode

 

To the "vast majority" of raiders, I believe Hard Mode is more than adequate. Only the "elitists" at the very top, partake in Nightmare Mode. Which is fine. The ones who do Nightmare Mode, I assume are also the "top 1% who run through all the latest raiding content, in a matter of days/weeks.

 

Give NM its own tier of gear payouts and get back with me on that.

[Meurik]

Im sorry, but being the best, doesnt make you elitist.. your attitude does.

 

Elitism = Related to Elite, which in turn is related to Best. So your argument kinda falls flat on it's face here.

 

I do realize, some tend to use the word "Elitist" as a bad thing. I never said it was. You on the other hand, suggested it when you turn around and call me elitist. If I were, I'd be part of a "Hardcore raiding guild", that does nothing BUT raid, 7 days a week, on the highest difficulty (Nightmare) mode.

 

And no, I am not Ensidia or [insert name] hardcore super elite raiding guild.

 

Might wanna check up what Elitist/Elitism actually means, before accusing people of being such things.

[Viscidslime]

Fact. Yes, Rdps = Easier method of DPS in an OP.

 

The reality is, some encounters really are intended for RDPS and RDPS alone, I suppose..

 

I guess I am a lemonade kind of guy.

[Viscidslime]

Elitism = Related to Elite, which in turn is related to Best. So your argument kinda falls flat on it's face here.

 

I do realize, some tend to use the word "Elitist" as a bad thing. I never said it was. You on the other hand, suggested it when you turn around and call me elitist. If I were, I'd be part of a "Hardcore raiding guild", that does nothing BUT raid, 7 days a week, on the highest difficulty (Nightmare) mode.

 

And no, I am not Ensidia or [insert name] hardcore super elite raiding guild.

 

Might wanna check up what Elitist/Elitism actually means, before accusing people of being such things.

 

Calm down little bro, I was speaking generally.

 

Nothing wrong with any one play style, just our opinions about them.

[uramu]

actually just about EVERYONE knows melee dps are a LIABILITY, sure you can pull it off, but you'd be much better off with rdps.

 

its kind of like saying, Operative healers can heal, sure they can, but operative healing and sorc/sage healing are worlds apart...

 

Seems to be the case in just about every game. I want to be able to stealth (gaining all the benefits that yields) and be on par with other classes in other ways (heal, damage, tank). If I can get 2 out of 3 plus stealth, that'd be even better.

 

I've never known a rogue type who didn't complain (note: did not say all rogues are complainers) regardless of how geared they were and ridiculous their damage got, how efficiently they could kill others without their even getting to swing back, etc. So you have to move a bit more during boss fights than the rdpsers do and youre not topping the non-existent dps meter Suck it up cupcake.

[Meurik]

Calm down little bro, I was speaking generally.

 

Im sorry, but being the best, doesnt make you elitist.. your attitude does.

 

Yup, very "generalized" comment.