Please don't trivialize PVP gear in 1.2

[Ojaix]

I'm so SICK of posting about this but I feel that I must.

 

 

Grinding out tons of hours in front of your computer does not entitle you to "better" gear than everyone else.

 

PvP is an equal footing game. Yes, a winner can get gear faster but everyone, win or lose has to eventually get to the same gear everyone else has.

 

 

A true PvP player wants to be the best on equal footing. A true player doesn't care if they have equal gear.

 

Better colors, options, designs, titles, credits can be available for the winners but everyone must have access to the gear.

 

Since when do true pvpers want equal footing? You very rarely see anyone on any pvp game look for a group of equal size to get into battles with, it is always about out numbering the opponent. They always look for someone that is lower level than they are if going 1 on 1. When all levels are equal they make sure they play the fotm class that can either always win or at least escape if they are losing. Even better yet playing a stealth class waiting for someone to be in combat with something that they are struggling with and popping out when you know they don't have a chance at all of defeating you.

 

Yup true pvpers want equal footing, lolololololololololol!

[RealAeiouy]

They confirmed it was better than BM gear, and that anyone regardless of valor rank could wear it, even someone who just turned 50. They said they would be earned by competing(not winning) in rated warzones.

 

So from what I would gather from that is ppl can grind to 50, then afk all day for a week or so, maybe less in rated warzones and have a full set of the top teir PVP gear, and have eaten their carrot too early.

 

Then what?

 

How many who only PVP will continue paying a subscription to a game where nobody cares about the tiny color carrot, or mount carrot(that you will never use if you all you do is pvp anyway)?

 

Not many I suspect.

 

Gear is not a carrot for pvpers. After your mythical week you pvers will get your gear and go back to pve I guess. Win-win.

[MPagano]

Gear is not a carrot for pvpers. After your mythical week you pvers will get your gear and go back to pve I guess. Win-win.

 

This.

 

The rest of these people like to threaten the pvp community that they will leave if there are no carrots to chase. Promise? I mean, I can't think of a better outcome than parsing the player-base such that people who queue for warzones do so for its own sake.

[UglyStik]

A true PvP player wants to be the best on equal footing. A true player doesn't care if they have equal gear.

 

I've been saying that for a long time, and if they keep gear the way it is they have to make warzones cross server and match equal valor ranks together.

[Darth-_-]

ok so to go along with this post if you want equal gear for PvP everyone should start off with rakata gear as soon as they hit 50, would you want that? probably not right if so then what is the point in doing HM's

 

imo in order to wear the War Hero Gear you should have to be Valor 70/ BM Valor 60/ Champ Valor 50/ Cent Valor 40.

 

to all of you who want the gear just given to you... go back to WoW and leave the real players alone i like taking the time to grind my valor/HM's it is fun and should stay that way

[RealAeiouy]

Welcome to MMOs? I will say it again, if you are looking for a game type where time played does not give an advantage, there are plenty of fps' out there for you.

 

Welcome to mmog pvp where gear should not be a big factor. If you want to chase lewtz then pve where all people do is chase lewtz.

[Merya]

These "true pvpers" seem to want 99% win chance. Better gear, premades, etc. Is it actually fun to faceroll over pugs in greens or smth? I never really got that. IMO that behavious also won't happen if the game does not reward it. Thus making the pvp experience more fun for the 95% of people who aren't going to grind zones 12 hours a day..

Maybe this game doesn't need hardhardhardcore players or rewards? I mean, most who whine about lack of hc rewards don't even know what hc means. Try some Korean mmos for that.

[richardya]

ok so to go along with this post if you want equal gear for PvP everyone should start off with rakata gear as soon as they hit 50, would you want that? probably not right if so then what is the point in doing HM's

 

PvP'ers should not have to grind to 50, it should be equal, all should start at 50.

Also, the classes should all be the same if you PvP.

One class should not have abilities others do not in pvp, pvp should be about skill.

 

Wait, wait, wait, is PvP part of an MMO? Oh yea

[Darth-_-]

I've been saying that for a long time, and if they keep gear the way it is they have to make warzones cross server and match equal valor ranks together.

 

**** Roll on a more populated server, is it that hard to understand? Bioware didnt make you chose your server so i believe it is your own fault right????

[RealAeiouy]

PVE'ers who whined in the first place about PVP gear being too hard to get and making BM out to be some huge stat gap from champion are simply bad players, blaming gear for the reason they die so much.

 

I know you continue to masquerade as a pvper but you are failing horribly. Pvp players do not want to out gear their opponents. It is not fun nor challenging.

 

Instead of constantly wanting these gear gaps to exist why not practice getting better at pvp so you will also see why such gear gaps are not good.

[Valsdad]

Amen brother

 

When I was a kid they tried to force me to play baseball, then I found out they wanted me to pay attention at the plate, and practice, and run around the bases. Seyanara

 

Then my mom told me reading was fun, please, turning the pages and concentrating, no thank you.

 

In high school my friends would go to parties. SNOOZE. Driving, and getting dressed and walking around and talking, sorry, that is a job.

 

PvP is supposed to be fun, I dont even want to press the keys to be honest. That is work. These people saying progression is fun just wanna roll on fresh 50's. How in the world could anyone say leveling and getting gear is fun?

 

You aren't as smart as you think you are.

[Emencie]

snip

 

Agreed No one PVE's for fun over and over again.

 

But before WoW people PvPed for fun all the time in MMOs... in fact in WoW before battle grounds and finally resil gear, that's all PvP ever was in MMOs. fun and personal gain / enjoyment. people still PVP for fun in many MMOs. COH L2 GW/2 and LOTRO are just a few games that come to mind that have or had great no progression PVP. And pretty much any FPS or Sports game on the market also fall into this category of PVP for fun.

 

Like an Olympic gold medal you just want a distinct goal to work towards. a distinct way to show your achievement and set you apart from the pack right? And the gear

is not to have an advantage against lower skilled teams/players but to set a clear distinction and keep people interested in competing.

Showing the world that you have skill and earned that gear. And giving you a carrot to reach for every season.

 

 

Because by your own words if you are competing in your bracket the gear doesn't even give you any advantage at all. None. Zero. The only advantage it gives you is over people less skilled than you that don't have it.

 

And the best gear will still go to the hardest working people in PvE you can still do OPS for progression. But that is where it should stay.

 

The problem with progression in PVP is that PVP either needs to hand out gear to everyone so fast that progression means nothing. OR you have the people with the best skill or most time on the top of the pack and no one else ever able to even compete. Where is the line?

 

This game was already getting like WoW where the PVP community slowly diminished because new PVPers couldn't compete at all. Why? Because they would get completely destroyed by the gear dependency. You say that your gear will not compete for you but already that's not true. In partial BM I can free attack fresh no expertise 50's to death... Free attack them to death! What do you think will happen when I have one of the next sets down the line?

Edited March 13, 2012 by Emencie

[MPagano]

ok so to go along with this post if you want equal gear for PvP everyone should start off with rakata gear as soon as they hit 50, would you want that? probably not right if so then what is the point in doing HM's

 

imo in order to wear the War Hero Gear you should have to be Valor 70/ BM Valor 60/ Champ Valor 50/ Cent Valor 40.

 

to all of you who want the gear just given to you... go back to WoW and leave the real players alone i like taking the time to grind my valor/HM's it is fun and should stay that way

 

You couldn't be more off in your understanding of what we're trying to convey.

 

We don't care if there's no gear. The only thing we want, is for stats to be the same amongst each class. So if a level 50 warrior pvps with 15k hp and 300 str, all warriors that pvp have those stats.

 

We don't care about HMs or epics or whatever else. What we care about is that when we queue up for pvp, we're playing versus the player. As it stands now, the game rewards people simply for playing- not for winning. The more time you sit in warzones, the more stats you accrue and the more of a distinct advantage you have over a player who has spent less time.

 

It shouldn't be like that. It's not fun, and it's not fair. Just because you spend 40 hours a week playing shouldn't mean that your character is now inherently better than mine. It's important to note that this isn't saying that you shouldn't be better from playing more. If you play 40 hours a week and you have become a better player at the keyboard then you should be better. However, the only advantage a player should have over another player in pvp should be skill and experience.

 

The people who want gear discrepancy simply don't like the fact that I might be better than you even though I only play for half as much time as you do.

[MPagano]

**** Roll on a more populated server, is it that hard to understand? Bioware didnt make you chose your server so i believe it is your own fault right????

 

He wasn't referring to length in queue times. He was saying that people should be paired based on some metric related to performance, and this pairing would restrict the pool of players queued in each eschelon which could be alleviated by cross-server queueing.

 

You are coming across as a lunatic.

[Zellata]

And guess what? with a system that Promotes aesthetic gear progression you will find your pool of potential PVP players more rich.

 

There's no such thing as aesthetic progression of anything - it's personal preference. While everybody agrees that +10 to a stat is better than +5 to that same stat, people will never reach an agreement on one gear set looking better than other gear set.

[MPagano]

There's no such thing as aesthetic progression of anything - it's personal preference. While everybody agrees that +10 to a stat is better than +5 to that same stat, people will never reach an agreement on one gear set looking better than other gear set.

 

Why do they have to? Aesthetic differences in gear is still a form of progression if there are requirements to obtain them. Not everything has to be understood in an incremental sense.

[RealAeiouy]

This was suppose to be my next MMO, not my next stop over, but like so many others, I too am waiting for GW2, so w/e hand out free gear. Its not likely I am going to commit to a hard grind. And regardless if you PvE or PvP, if you are hardcore or casual, if you aren't enjoying what you do, you are going to stop doing it. It can be said doubly for the people that only do for gear.

 

You know there is no gear in gw2 pvp right?

 

I like people who want gear imbalance who say they are waiting for a game where gear has no impact in pvp at all.

[Emencie]

There's no such thing as aesthetic progression of anything - it's personal preference. While everybody agrees that +10 to a stat is better than +5 to that same stat, people will never reach an agreement on one gear set looking better than other gear set.

 

Of course there is!

 

That's why people wear their founder titles or wore their Battle master titles. Why people who got the rare lightsaber colors were pissed that BW gave them away. People wear rare gear /titles because they are rare and a status symbol. I guarantee if they made seasonal rewards of titles, armor sets, weapons, auras, saber crystals, emotes, or power color changes and made them only available through the current season and only through PVP. PVPers would race to get it. and PVEers would cry no fair, because they want them. Its not about giving a new set of gear.

 

Pure cosmetic rewards can, and do work.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Emencie

[Schwasted]

This is an RPG people. RPGs have always been about the time you put into them. The point is that you get a reward for long hours of work. Good or not that is the point. If they are just handing gear to everyone there is no point in putting in long play hours. Id rather just play HoN or LoL, where everyone is basically on even footing every match.

 

When you pick up an RPG time is what you expect to put into it. Time and then the execution of well thought out strategy. I have a feeling most "lets keep it even" player never play RPGs outside of MMOs. I don't think they would enjoy them.

 

While I agree fresh 50s get smashed, it makes a fight between two war heroes mean that much more. Just ask them.

[RealAeiouy]

Exactly! I just started playing MMOs, and coming from FPSs, I could not believe that multi-player (PvP as you guys call it) had such gear advantages. I could not imagine playing CoD or Battlefield and having players that had weapons that were 10% better overall. Some weapons do 10% more damage but fire 10% slower. Your BM/Cent gear example would be like having a weapon that had 10% more damage and fired 10% faster. I think gear bonuses are fine, its like a perk system, but overall stat increases makes no sense in a PvP setting.

 

Trust me long term pvpers don't get it either. It is part of the growing pains of mmog pvp though. It took awhile to get it so you, mostly, don't have to pve for gear in mmog pvp. The side effect is that some mmog developers tried things out and copied pve gear progression. This has been proven a failure in pvp and thus the mmog pvp keeps evolving and we move to a lower threshold stat advantage with vanity and cosmetic awards.

 

Most of the people who want significant gear progression have not played mmogs for pvp for very long do they don't have perspective. As well they come from a pve gear progression background. They make the same mistakes some devs made about stat gear progression in mmog pvp. In 5 years people will laugh at the idea of constant stat progression pvp.

[RealAeiouy]

Longevity, ever heard of it? It's kinda required in subscription based MMO's.

 

Pvpers will continue to log in to fight other players. We are easy. As long as the system provides a battleground to fight other players that is balanced we will keep playing. The human opponents are what we enjoy and continue to come back for...

 

If you don't get that no amount of artificial rewards will keep you around.

[MPagano]

This is an RPG people. RPGs have always been about the time you put into them. The point is that you get a reward for long hours of work. Good or not that is the point. If they are just handing gear to everyone there is no point in putting in long play hours. Id rather just play HoN or LoL, where everyone is basically on even footing every match.

 

When you pick up an RPG time is what you expect to put into it. Time and then the execution of well thought out strategy. I have a feeling most "lets keep it even" player never play RPGs outside of MMOs. I don't think they would enjoy them.

 

While I agree fresh 50s get smashed, it makes a fight between two war heroes mean that much more. Just ask them.

 

People keep saying this, but it flies in the face of history in this genre.

 

MMOs have become increasingly focused on streamlining things so they don't take as long. They offer more variety, more content, more achievement, etc. Crafting, pvp, pve, exploration, social interaction, minigames, raids, guild features. Just because RPG used to mean "time sink" doesn't mean that BW intends this game to follow that outdated model. Most RPGs since WoW are avoiding precisely what you're describing.

[RealAeiouy]

Just like a 'true PVPer' (given the definition offered earlier) would want everyone to have the same gear, a 'true PVPer' should want everyone to have availability to the same skills. After all, are you really testing your PVP 'skills' against someone who picked the wrong profession to level to 50? If you are lined up against a 'gimped' (disadvantaged) profession how is that different then having a gear advantage? I am just looking for some consistency in what you are asking for.

 

Because devs will tweak and balance classes. Which is another reason why gear disparity should be minimized in pvp as it makes balancing classes much easier.

 

I am all for mmog progression and character development but in pvp the ceiling for maxing out stats has to be low. This does not preclude them from launching new tiers of gear it just has to be done in a way where 50% of the playerbase is not perpetually gear advantaged or disadvantaged.

[RealAeiouy]

Amen brother

 

When I was a kid they tried to force me to play baseball, then I found out they wanted me to pay attention at the plate, and practice, and run around the bases. Seyanara

 

Then my mom told me reading was fun, please, turning the pages and concentrating, no thank you.

 

In high school my friends would go to parties. SNOOZE. Driving, and getting dressed and walking around and talking, sorry, that is a job.

 

PvP is supposed to be fun, I dont even want to press the keys to be honest. That is work. These people saying progression is fun just wanna roll on fresh 50's. How in the world could anyone say leveling and getting gear is fun?

 

Yeah you quit baseball because they would not give you automatic home runs for sitting in the backyard and would not give you a phd in literature for sleeping.

 

Imagine if you got to cork your bat in baseball just because you spent 10 hours a day at the batting cages. That is what you want.

 

I don't get some of you. I don't enjoy beating people when I dominate people easily because I have better gear. Either you enjoy beating people like that or maybe the gear is the only way you can win. Please let me know which on fits you.

 

We have head from a lot of BMs here who don't like beating their opponents only due to gear.

[RealAeiouy]

Once you give the PVP epics to everyone for free, then everyone has the same gear - and there's no real point in even having the gear. Just delete your character sheet - you don't need it.

 

Now you've lost a lot of what many people that MMO's enjoy.

 

For me, a great part of enjoyment (and a SKILL) is figuring out what the best gear is for the best situation. In Vanilla WOW, I generated many spreasheets to get to this answer. I enjoy having a gear advantage because I've chosen the best combination of gear.

 

When WOW seperated PVP gear from PVE, by adding the Resillience stat - they took away most of the customization. Just go get your PVP gear from the vendor. Same for SWTOR - go to the vendor. Boring.

 

If the game is going to include getting gear as a part of the game then there should be some point behind it.

 

Yet this is when the fun begins. I appreciate gear acquisition and progression but I don't want to do it forever. Pvp is at its best when everyone is on equal footing. Capping out in gear is when the pvp end game begins.