Ardelia Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Guilds wont pass on any chance to be elitist. They'd probably just as easily say no gays, cripples, (insert race here) if it was socially acceptable to do so. ....yeah, that totally follows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintan Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Guilds wont pass on any chance to be elitist. They'd probably just as easily say no gays, cripples, (insert race here) if it was socially acceptable to do so. Theres no real reason to have an age requirement for the guild, if that person makes a nuisance of themselves because they're young and annoying you just remove them from the guild. Dont tell me a couple of clicks in an MMO is a big trouble. No ty, no need to let it get to that. What you suggest will only make your guild seem unstable. Successful guilds don't invite any one and kick any one often, this gives the impression that the guild is unstable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipathize Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Start your own kids only guild and pwn all the old farts. Advertising for that guild will have the FBI knocking on your door in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carzem Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 I must say thanks for all the feedback and tips! I will now start looking for a guild that will accept me and i dont think im going to write so much more in this thread. Thank you! PS: Im from Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaibotLiu Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 ....yeah, that totally follows.... You clearly underestimate people. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardelia Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 You clearly underestimate people. Good luck with that. I'm sorry, you're drawing that conclusion about me based on what, exactly? The fact that I pointed out that saying "anybody who doesn't let minors into their guild would discriminate against gays if they could get away with it" was actually fallacious in the extreme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaibotLiu Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm sorry, you're drawing that conclusion about me based on what, exactly? The fact that I pointed out that saying "anybody who doesn't let minors into their guild would discriminate against gays if they could get away with it" was actually fallacious in the extreme? Its not my problem if you cant think outside your own limited exsitence and experience and imagine the possiblity that many people would discriminate against any minority group if it wasnt pounded into our head every day that it was wrong. And also, that people online dont really need a reason to "discriminate". Welcome to the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimmer Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Hey as you can see the title says it all. I do not think that age should matter when it comes to hardcore ops or WZ when that comes, and of course not when you want to join a guild. Im aged 13 so im qualified to play this game but i got serious issues with joining a guild. Almost every time i say my age i get kicked or no invite. I think that is wrong. Some ppl says that you gotta be mature and understand and write good english. But maybye i can and im only 13 but i still get no invite. I want YOUR thoughts on this. Carzem PS: I play on the EU server Scepter of Ragnos currently lvl 41 Sorcerer named Wantzer. For my guilds in every game I've played we only asked a few things; respect to your fellow gamer, and the maturity to not "offend" your guildies with "cussing etc" I don't care if people cuss but it keeps the guild happy so that's that. My point is that my guild has had even a six year old in it, that were more mature than a lot of 15 year old players you see; very respectful too. If you can listen to the leader / pull your own weight there is no reason why they shouldn't let you join their guilds or their ops groups. To me it sounds like they're just being immature using stereotypes of the age group - and not taking you for who you are personal. I would avoid people like those, but it's your choice to make; all I can say is good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardelia Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Its not my problem if you cant think outside your own limited exsitence and experience and imagine the possiblity that many people would discriminate against any minority group if it wasnt pounded into our head every day that it was wrong. You're mixing concepts rather badly. Yes, it's entirely possible that some people would discriminate against certain groups if there were not peer pressure not to. As a matter of fact, i'd go so far as to say it's a certainty that some people would. It does not follow that guilds who don't allow minors also secretly would love to discriminate against other groups. You just tried to chain together two diverse, stand-alone statements into a position via use of a rather bald red herring; then added a bonus ad hominem in an attempt to discredit me outside the merits by including me in that group, even though I've said nothing that would imply my position on that topic one way or the other. Somebody with your, uh, "expansive existence and experience" has surely had some contact with logic (and logical fallacies), yes? Edited March 11, 2012 by Ardelia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikModi Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 snip Wow, I'm actually impressed it took this long for this thread to get trolled. Good job, everyone except above quotee. To above quotee: Wow, really? You really believe that anyone who might not want minors in their company for possibly legitimate reasons is secretly a Klan member? And then try to claim logic backs up YOUR position, instead of a far more rational one? Glad I don't live in your hate-filled world. To clarify, the rational points are as follows: Some guilds/groups may "discriminate" against age. Some guilds/groups may WANT to discriminate against race/religion/sexual orientation, but fear the societal blowback if they do. Some guilds/groups who want to discriminate against one of the groups in point two may shift their discrimination to age because it is more socially acceptable. This last point is, while POSSIBLE, highly unlikely. Those who do discriminate do so because they hate a particular group of people, they are not "discrimination junkies" who have to hate SOMEONE or their heads will explode. Shifting discrimination from one group to another practically does not happen, because the discriminator does not have any reason (however flimsy their reason may be) to target their hate at any other group. Moreover, you assume such people A) realize and B) care that their point of view is not socially acceptable. The stigma against being racist has not eliminated the ***, Neo-Nazis, or other such groups. In fact, one could argue that the increased acceptance of their hated minorities has strengthened such groups resolve to prove that their targets do, in deed, deserve to cease to exist. They believe that there are clear and present dangers to allowing "those people" to be around "our people," and will not rest until everyone else sees that they are right. Perhaps ironically, the suggestion that such people will hate ANYONE if given the chance is likely to be met with extreme resistance: they see themselves as the heroes of their own stories, bravely fighting against the evils of (insert group here). The suggestion that, bereft of an outlet for their hate, they would target a group which "has done nothing wrong" (in their estimation). . . well, that would be as insulting as calling any ordinary person a Klan member, would it not? Especially given that one of the main rhetorical fallbacks of such groups is "for our children," (we have to stop X, or they will corrupt out children) the idea that they would discriminate based on age for no other reason than that they haven't had their hate fix recently is just ludicrously false. Consider your opinions a bit more carefully before trying to voice them as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookieluva Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Hey as you can see the title says it all. I do not think that age should matter when it comes to hardcore ops or WZ when that comes, and of course not when you want to join a guild. Im aged 13 so im qualified to play this game but i got serious issues with joining a guild. Almost every time i say my age i get kicked or no invite. I think that is wrong. Some ppl says that you gotta be mature and understand and write good english. But maybye i can and im only 13 but i still get no invite. I want YOUR thoughts on this. Carzem PS: I play on the EU server Scepter of Ragnos currently lvl 41 Sorcerer named Wantzer. some of the reason why ppl dont want kids in thier guild is due to gaming restrictions... but i think the bigger reason why is that they dont want to have to watch what they say or do.... most of us adults have cirtian things that the majority of us will not talk about around kids... it just doesnt feel right to some of us that have kids to curse or talk of cirtain subjects around kids.... Another thing is that Alot of kids have started talking just completely extremely foul mouthed and rude to others... thinking that just because its a game that feelings dont exist. so my advice to you is to look for a family style guild... there are such guilds out there and even ones that do the high lvl ops and FPs. Raiding guilds dont really have much meaning in a game where all you need to have is 16 players at 50 to get thru an op its not like everquest where you needed 60+ well geared, well coordinated, and high level players to take down a boss. any op or FP sould be within reach of any guild that has 16 level 50 players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabjat Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 My son is almost 12 and the idea of him playing this game or any MMO is horrifying. He's a child...I don't let him have unsupervised access to the internet, let alone a multiplayer game where he'd be exposed to general chat in Dromund Kaas or Coruscant. *shudder* Once he's out of the house, on his own and mature enough to pay his own bills and for his own internet he can do what he wants. While he's under my roof, his internet access is policed heavily by myself and my husband. My point is, no matter how good of a player you may be, OP, the fact is, TOR is not really a suitable environment for children as a general rule. While you may find it unfair that you cannot find a guild due to your age, I find it perfectly understandable. Most responsible adults are not going to want to expose a child to the 'adult flavored' atmosphere of their guild or feel like they need to watch their language or be careful of what they say due to a child being present. Maybe you should look for guilds that are family friendly and that welcome all ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabjat Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Start your own kids only guild and pwn all the old farts. Also, THIS. ^^ hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeljina Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Like people here have said, it's the guild's own choice. Sad but true. However, strange thing is that though guild is full of matures it still goes sometimes so wild and childish that you can't even recognize that guild as a mature one. But I do understand (as a leader of a mature guild) that mature ones have a kind of different sense of humor and other things to talk than young ones. That is no ones fault, it's just a fact. Maybe adults think that they can't have that free conversation with other adults if there are kids around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMornard Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 english is not main language. . In that case I'll grant you a lot of slack. Congratulations on working so well in another language. After April 15, come to Rubat Crystal server and look for Jedi Master Dahail Sunfire. I'll invite you into my guild. (School will keep me too busy until then.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterpryde Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 any guild ive been in that has age limits is done so more offten then not because of the folowing...not spell checking. age is normaly limited because younger players often dont want to be told how to improve there character, and thus make team stronger. or they tend to complain when they feel left out when people are not leaving them out. but it is hard to talk to sumone not of same age.... like about kids or work. you cant relate when they wanna chat about school or a party they whent to. not being rude just being up frount as to why i see guilds ing this rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistressnonny Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Speaking as a guild leader through a couple games... It's often not about "wanting" to cut out younger people. Other people have mentioned issues of raiding and reliability, but that often isn't an issue for casual guilds where a lot of people don't raid to begin with. However, my guild often has adult topics come up, and that is certainly a concern, particularly when you're also dealing with subjects of alternative lifestyles. It wasn't all that long ago that I was a teenager, and I remember being more comfortable around adults because I got tired of the frequent immaturity of my peers. However, many were afraid to talk freely to me -- which I didn't understand at the time, but looking back now as an adult, I do. Because laws are such that parents can take legal action against adults who speak too freely to minors about things of adult nature. Whether or not the legal action actually goes anywhere, doesn't really matter. If you're legally connected in some way to a crime involving a child, people are going to assume the worst. They're going to assume that even if you were proven innocent, that you were actually guilty. It's pretty ridiculous, but it can ruin lives, lose jobs, possibly endanger custody of people's kids, etc. It's not too likely to happen on a game that uses handles, but if someone, say, lets out their Facebook with their real name? It can be connected. And I have heard crazier things happen. It doesn't happen frequently, but nobody wants to be that one in a million. Even if there aren't legal issues, people often just don't want to deal with the potential drama of having a parent log in and rage at people for "corrupting" their child. (Never mind that the game itself deals with a lot of issues that probably aren't kid-appropriate!) It is just simpler to say, 18+. It really is often not about the kid themselves; one of the most mature guildmates I have ever had in a previous guild was 13. But when we found out her age, it caused quite a stir, because people often had frank sexual discussions that she joined in on, and 1) felt squicked because they talked about these things not knowing that the person they thought was a college student was a kid, or 2) were worried about potential parental backlash. It was ultimately decided she could stay in the guild, but people were a lot more... um, restrained around her after that. Now, what I would suggest is looking around for guilds that are marketed as "family friendly". These often don't allow adult discussions, sometimes don't allow swearing, and probably would be open to a minor joining. That would probably be your best bet. Edited March 11, 2012 by mistressnonny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) This is why I hate guilds. Good luck finding one that isn't chock-full of "elitists" who can't start a sentence without saying "As a guild leader for many years over many games..." Why would you want to associate with power-tripping oxygen thieves like these anyway? Anyone who doesn't want you in their guild because of your age are worthless leaders anyway. Don't worry, OP: we both know that adults with jobs and bills would get owned by almost anyone under the age of 18 anyway. Maybe that's why they don't want you... you'll just make them look bad. Let your toon do the talking. Edited March 12, 2012 by face_hindu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirameki Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) This is why I hate guilds. Good luck finding one that isn't chock-full of "elitists" who can't start a sentence without saying "As a guild leader for many years over many games..." Why would you want to associate with power-tripping oxygen thieves like these anyway? Anyone who doesn't want you in their guild because of your age are worthless leaders anyway. Don't worry, OP: we both know that adults with jobs and bills would get owned by almost anyone under the age of 18 anyway. Maybe that's why they don't want you... you'll just make them look bad. Let your toon do the talking. Reading this text I pretty much understand now why some guild prefer mature ppl over the age of 18. They tend to have less teeny epeen issues going on with text like these : Don't worry, OP: we both know that adults with jobs and bills would get owned by almost anyone under the age of 18 anyway. Maybe that's why they don't want you... you'll just make them look bad. You saying stuff like that makes you just as bad as people who look at age only. Edited March 12, 2012 by Kirameki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deags Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This. Seriously, if you feel left out because of age, it's very likely that there others who feel the same way. Y'all should organize. pft 13 year olds organizing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikaras Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sure you may have the skill to play...but that doesn't mean older folks, such as myself, wish to be interacting with someone as young as you. You need to keep in mind that half raiding is the people you raid with. If you're joining a guild and are going to be chatting with other folks on vent (or whatever), you really wanna be sure its someone you'll enjoy interacting with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessieColt Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This is why I hate guilds. Good luck finding one that isn't chock-full of "elitists" who can't start a sentence without saying "As a guild leader for many years over many games..." Why would you want to associate with power-tripping oxygen thieves like these anyway? Anyone who doesn't want you in their guild because of your age are worthless leaders anyway. Don't worry, OP: we both know that adults with jobs and bills would get owned by almost anyone under the age of 18 anyway. Maybe that's why they don't want you... you'll just make them look bad. Let your toon do the talking. Wow! Guilds are specifically designed for like-minded people to group up on a semi-permanent basis. It can take weeks, or even months, to find a guild where you fit. This doesn't make any of them "elitist". It just means the fit between you and them doesn't work, for whatever reason. If you see a group of friends sitting in a restaurant laughing and joking with each other, is your first thought about them that they are "elitists jerks", or you are angry that you are left out of that? If you feel that way, then you have far greater issues that cannot be resolved in a forum thread on an MMO web site. As someone in an alternate lifestyle, the LAST thing I want is to be around others who don't want me or will not accept me. But under no circumstances do I think of those Guilds as "elitist". Since the vast majority of people who can actually afford to play MMO's are adults, it will be harder for the under 18 age group to find a Guild who welcomes them or that they feel comfortable with. This doesn't mean that the people who aren't interested in grouping up with, or being in a Guild with anyone under 18 think that the under 18 person is a bad player, or doesn't know their class, etc. It just means that they want to spend their own game time with other like-minded people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveicarly Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hey as you can see the title says it all. I do not think that age should matter when it comes to hardcore ops or WZ when that comes, and of course not when you want to join a guild. Im aged 13 so im qualified to play this game but i got serious issues with joining a guild. Almost every time i say my age i get kicked or no invite. I think that is wrong. Some ppl says that you gotta be mature and understand and write good english. But maybye i can and im only 13 but i still get no invite. I want YOUR thoughts on this. Carzem PS: I play on the EU server Scepter of Ragnos currently lvl 41 Sorcerer named Wantzer. you are in that stage of life when you think you are mature but you are not,you are still a kid.Just wait a little while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hey as you can see the title says it all. I do not think that age should matter when it comes to hardcore ops or WZ when that comes, and of course not when you want to join a guild. Im aged 13 so im qualified to play this game but i got serious issues with joining a guild. Almost every time i say my age i get kicked or no invite. I think that is wrong. Some ppl says that you gotta be mature and understand and write good english. But maybye i can and im only 13 but i still get no invite. I want YOUR thoughts on this. Carzem PS: I play on the EU server Scepter of Ragnos currently lvl 41 Sorcerer named Wantzer. In an ideal world, people would judge you by your actions and in-game performance rather than your age. Having said that, many guilds that I am used to do have minimum age requirements. Partly this is due to younger people (ok, children) having less time for raiding or general gaming. Sometimes it is a behaviour issue (the children sometimes have problems understanding the nature of personal property, although in my experience from EVE that game has a lot of thieves from the older generation). But mostly the issue for the guilds seems to be the "adult" nature of guild chat, with jokes and sexual discussions, that the adults are simply not comfortable having around young teenagers. Adults who sit in chat channels and tell adult or sexual jokes around children often feel like they have somebody sitting on their shoulder, waiting for the moment to scream "paedophile" at them, so they find it is preferable to say "No under 18's" instead of keeping the guild chat polite and "child-friendly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 you are in that stage of life when you think you are mature but you are not,you are still a kid.Just wait a little while. I believe that maturity is an on-going, never ending process for most of us - what you write is true for most young adults. I'm 30 now, I'm certain I'll look back at myself 5 years from now and think "damn, I was such a kid back then!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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