1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

[RealAeiouy]

When I first dinged 50, there was someone raging at me for having no expertise rating. I'm currently a BM with over 670 expertise, and I regularly make short work of them whenever we come across each other in Huttball, so I guess the joke is on him. It's a game. I play it to have fun. Nerd-ragers can either cope with that on their own terms, or rage-quit if someone's presence really bothers them. The rest of us will have fun together, win or lose.

 

In every MMO you always get these really hardcore players, who care about gear and stats more than vitamins and sunshine. It's best to just ignore them. They contribute literally nothing of value to the game whatsoever. When they take a break to help a lowbie level up, with a polite and courteous tone, offering genuinely well-mannered advice with patience and care, I'll give a shovel's worth of bantha fodder what they have say about this or that.

 

The real problem is when games start catering to these hardcore end-gamers and completely ignoring the other players. I won't say the name of the game, but I left one game last year because that's exactly what they did, with an expansion pack called... uh... let's just call it "Shmatashmlysm." Hardcore gamers shouldn't be ignored, but they most certainly should not be focused on. Ever.

 

 

I wish people would stop using "hardcore" to describe people who want gear progression in pvp. They are not hardcore they are pvers dabbling in pvp.

 

Hardcore pvpers will fight non stop without worrying about gear just fighting and competing.

 

No hardcore pvper wants gear progression. So again, I wish people would stop misusing the label when they are really just talking about gear vs gear players

[RealAeiouy]

My man Mat...you play a MMO for dynamic content. Not static.

 

IF you want static characters then you should play a console game or fps. MMO's have a form of progression regardless of what side of the fence you are on. People play for many reasons besides fun. They want to brag, they want to gain power, influence, etc.

 

Like I said - how do you think the raiding community would feel if all they got for completing a nightmare level fight is a item that has a different color???

 

Yeah - went there again because it matters. People play mmo's for countless hours paying the publisher 14 bucks a month to grow their avatar. For Pete's sake. Look at Farmville - can't believe I"m even saying this but do you think it would be as widely popular as it is now if all they got was a different color chicken?

 

Hell no.

 

Fighting other players is the dynamic content. It is like you guys do not even play pvp.

[AKfourtyseven]

It is not about being out geared. It is about out gearing others and stomping them with no effort.

 

I understand below average players might not get it but when you have a skill advantage having a gear advantage completely trivializes combat.

 

You are right, but this is the entire point of rankings.

 

Gear should be serving two functions here. In the first it should be giving less skilled players a gear advantage over the more skilled players as those players progress up the ranks, so the less skilled players can compete to a greater degree. The more skilled players, by virtue of being more skilled still win and progress to the higher ranks while obtaining gear and this process continues until they plateau at whatever ranking matches their skill- where everyone has equal gear.

 

Highly skilled players should not be facing lesser skilled players while also having equal or better gear, only the reverse should be true since highly skilled players should be constantly progressing up the ladder and passing those players by.

 

Either way, im going to be interested to see what happens after this change. When players are still getting destroyed even with gear parity, i want to see what is blamed for the ills of PvP next. The good players will continue to destroy and the gap between good and bad will actually increase because bad wont be able to leverage. So, who is actually gaining from this? The same players who were crushing bad players anyway...

[RealAeiouy]

I just stating working on a new 50 and getting him geared.

 

First: I had him at about 50 Valor when he reached 50 so I could get champion gear right out the door.

 

I was able to buy up some bags and then i completed some dailies and weeklies (this over 3 days) .

 

Now i have a toon that is full pvp gears. I got most centaurian and 3 pieces of champion.

 

I went form unviable to very vaible in 3 days.

 

Its really not that bad. The Champion is pretty darn good and though its no BM set it seems to get the job done.

 

Now that i can buy BM tokens and most gear is what 1 or 2 tokens, it does not seem like its all that hard. 1000:1000 does not take all that long. You can easily get between 70 and 100 tokens in a warzone.

 

I dont know why they bother changing this system, they just added the purchase tokens part.

 

The only thing they should have added IMO, would be to be able to buy BM tokens and such prior to gaining level 50. Just buy at valor rank. (cant waear them untill 50 of course)

 

This way, people that pvp to level can also gain these tokens well before they hit 50, so they dont feel undergeared for pvp at high level. They put in the effort and time.

And that is fine. You can work and plan for the low ceiling cap.

 

However what some people want are perpetual upgrades which means all your preparation means you dont fall further behind most people.

 

You enjoy working to closing the gap. If all you were doing was trying to limit the gap from getting bigger you would feel differently.

 

Most people are not against tiered gear with a low cap. That means when new gear comes out people have to get it but they should be able to get it quickly so everyone can be on even footing.

[RealAeiouy]

If that were the case then all players would play in the same footwear, use the same peripherals ect, but they dont (the fact we have entire industries based on selling these things should make this obvious).

 

Even in a real life sport where everything is meant ot be equal and fair, some margin of variance is allowed. It should be the same in a MMO's PvP, especially considering what we actually have is character vs character, where the avatar you are using is one you have grown over an extended period of time.

 

Its not like other games where you just pick a stock character/class and are ready to go with all the tools required to be competitive.

 

Edit: to clarify- in Football, performance enhancing drugs are not allow, but one play may have crappy boots while the other has a pair of Adidas Predators. The Adidas boots will give a margin of performance boost, even if its only 1%. That is right and proper and can easily be reflected in gear progression here without creating imbalance.

 

All professional sports regulate usable equipment. You can choose what stats you go after but the gear is fundamentally the same.

 

People who want gear progression need to stay away from sports analogies because they disprove them.

 

The gear vs gear players should stick with comparing the game play they want to a gear or a job

[Ankhkharu]

1.2 = equal gear for everyone with battlemaster and higher ranks being more of a prestige thing, I'm cool with that!

 

I would like to think I pvp so I can measure up against other people, not their gear. I don't find it amusing to own people with crappy gear, I find it boring. I want to win against people who stand equal chance to win against me, and what should make the difference is my teams skill, knowledge of the game mechanics and coordination. Not gear.

[LovedEverySecond]

me and some people from my guild were having a chat today and we all seemed to agree that it would be nice if they merged some of the smaller servers together. I'm just thinking that seperating warzones on small servers might be terrible if your server only usually has a small number of people on at nights

[RealAeiouy]

Actually.....you don't.

 

They are not equal and something is different. That is what sets them apart. We know this because we see the roid issue, yeah? Motorsports we see people using different parts that make them go faster.

 

Nothing is withheld - correct. The only difference to be honest is that the person who started to pvp in our virtual world will have a lead time of many things before that of someone who started late. Experience, gear, knowledge.

 

You know where I'm going

 

There should be nothing withheld from pve players simply because they haven't had the chance to prove themselves yet....

 

Tell you what. Beverage to you too!

 

If you win the super bowl you don't get exclusive steroids as a reward.

 

Again you guys have to stay away from sports as sports fundamentally prove you don't need progressive gear.

[AKfourtyseven]

All professional sports regulate usable equipment. You can choose what stats you go after but the gear is fundamentally the same.

 

People who want gear progression need to stay away from sports analogies because they disprove them.

 

The gear vs gear players should stick with comparing the game play they want to a gear or a job

 

As i stated way back (and im sure you already understand this point) its not about regulations or not, its to debunk this myth that in real life sports everyone has exactly the same equipment. This is factually incorrect.

 

All gear used by players is not identicial and why should it be? There only needs to be an acceptable margin of variance so that we can declare competition is "fair". That acceptable margin is decided on by a governing body and rules are put in place.

 

Is the difference between Champ and BM gear game breaking? Or is that a small margin of variance that gives an advantage but maintains fair competition? Now compare that margin between 0 expertise and Champ, or Cent and Champ and i think we get closer to the real issue. It is not gear variance at all, its the degree to which it becomes unfair.

 

Im simply pointing out the fallacy that some people keep bringing up about other things having no variance at all- like i have heard people claim BF3 has no progression. They obviously have never got in a jet or helicopter.

 

So for the final time, variance is fine. Unfair advantages are not.

Edited March 16, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[RealAeiouy]

These analogies are insane.

This is a progression based MMO.

People like leveling, getting abilities and gear. It's fun.

 

As long as they keep the gear in line and not faceroll good there should be progression.

 

Example of good: Battlemaster Vs Champion

Example of bad: Champion Vs Centurian

 

And we are talking about end game pvp which is different. There will be all sorts of progression. Not just game breaking stat advancement progression. It is like you guys purposefully ignore reality.

[RealAeiouy]

This "gold medal" analogy is completely inapplicable. The last time I checked Usain Bolt doesn't run any faster when he is wearing his gold medal around his neck. As one of the original posters aptly noted, it would be an insane folly to reward the winner of the Indy 500 with a faster engine unavailable to other competitors.

 

A gold medal, like a championship trophy, a warzone rating, or a title, is simply a form of recognition.

 

Last I checked recognition/bragging rights/accomplishment seem to be sufficient motivators for true competitors (see Madness, March).

 

March Madness is a good example. We have hundreds of kids trying to win just to win. Most of them will never make the nba or any professional league but they throw themselves out there because they both enjoy basketball and want to win. They don't want magic underwear for making it to the final 4.

 

Pvp players enjoy pvp and want to win. They don't want magical underwear either.

 

I do believe those people who want stat gear over winning are not competive people at heart and never participated or excelled in sports and such. That is fine and it takes all sorts... But there is a great way to casually work on character development in this game, pve. Use it. I love the character developing aspects of mmogs. There are lots of ways to do it and none of them require top end pvp gear progression.

 

I don't want to beat a guy in one-on-one 21-10 and then get to do make it-take it in the next game while he doesn't , because I practiced more that week.

 

No competive person who wants to win wants an artificial edge based on something like gear. So please go craft and pve and build up your character and when you finish and want to have fun come pvp.

[CplQ]

me and some people from my guild were having a chat today and we all seemed to agree that it would be nice if they merged some of the smaller servers together. I'm just thinking that seperating warzones on small servers might be terrible if your server only usually has a small number of people on at nights

 

I was wondering about that myself the other day when I heard about the pvp changes.

[ntyzor]

Haven't read through all the wall of text, just OP's post, and i don't really understand if it's trolling or not.

 

My PvP guild re-opened recruitment in advance of the new patch with the rated warzones.

[RealAeiouy]

You keep trying to pigeon hole someone who you think lives in a basement or something...

 

Incentive = fun.

 

Did I say what the inventive was? I'm saying color isn't going to cut it for people that have to organize, babysit, lead, and whatever else they have to do in order to field a team in a rated warzone.

 

They won't do it - they will take the easier route because it is less stress.

 

The game should not be designed for those people.

 

It should be designed for people who like to pvp.

[RealAeiouy]

You are right, but this is the entire point of rankings.

 

Gear should be serving two functions here. In the first it should be giving less skilled players a gear advantage over the more skilled players as those players progress up the ranks, so the less skilled players can compete to a greater degree. The more skilled players, by virtue of being more skilled still win and progress to the higher ranks while obtaining gear and this process continues until they plateau at whatever ranking matches their skill- where everyone has equal gear.

 

Highly skilled players should not be facing lesser skilled players while also having equal or better gear, only the reverse should be true since highly skilled players should be constantly progressing up the ladder and passing those players by.

 

Either way, im going to be interested to see what happens after this change. When players are still getting destroyed even with gear parity, i want to see what is blamed for the ills of PvP next. The good players will continue to destroy and the gap between good and bad will actually increase because bad wont be able to leverage. So, who is actually gaining from this? The same players who were crushing bad players anyway...

 

The problem with mixing gear into rankings is that it convulutes the process. The rankings are supposed to put you in a position to win 50% of the time at your level. If people above you always have better gear it skews the entire process. Stat progressive gear does not make send combined with a ranking system.

[SneakyErvin]

Regarding BF, SC and any other game.

 

Yes, you probably wont be a very good pilot on day one in a BF game, or the best tactician/builder in an RTS. Just like you wont be a very good player/coach the first day you play Blood Bowl.

 

But, and this is a huge but.

 

It is all there for you on day one to use, even if you lack the skill you can still jump into a fighter jet. How else do you learn? And yes, the games have rankings, but its only for vanity. BF games reward different kits, but its obtainable by everyone. It's less like PvP ranking ala WoW and more like exping. But its there for everyone.

 

In the end, it all comes down to one thing, skill. Because everyone can get the gear, there is nothing blocking them.

 

What I'm against is gear obtained by ranking. I dont care if there are 3 tiers of gear each season to grind for. I also would care if there wasnt. PvP to me is fun because its PvP.

 

DaoC had the best PvP, you actually went to war for something. The pride of your faction, the enemy relics and Darkness Falls.

 

And I dont think this system will even remotely be anywhere close to what WoW used for their rated systems. It will be much more personal, more of a mesurement of how good you preform in WZs. Since they have both a solo and a group queue for rated WZs and I dont think they are seperated queues, you just chose how you wanna queue.

 

WoW required you to have a raid to queue.

 

Also something I think many people are doing here, comparing WoW to this game and automatically thinks "rated, gee hum, that must mean WoW rated".

[kuthroat]

I'd also like to report some news since we don't need any facts to support it.

 

1.) Ciggaretts are good for you.

2.) The earth is in fact flat like we initially assumed.

3.) Unicorn related deaths rose 213% in the month of February.

4.) Reptile people are in control of the Isrealy government.

5.) Bigfoot is real. He is going to be on the View in April.

6.) I have a 13 inch *****.

7.) Mars not only has life, it has women with three *******.

8.) The tsunami in japan was in fact Godzilla.

9.) Star wars the mmo is doomed.

10.) JFK was assassinated by the Grape Ape.

11.) Battle Los Angeles was a documentary.

12.) WWII was staged to remove a peaceful humanitarian from power in Germany.

13.) God is not only real, he is a woman, and she loves people who read her book and hang out at her house one day a week.

14.) The moon landing was fake. We can't go to the moon. It is already inhabited by giant robots.

15.) Megan Fox is a man.

16.) Dinosaur bones are merely a test of faith, they never lived.

17.) Guild Wars 2 is the best mmo ever.

18.) Titan is the best mmo ever.

19.) Secret World is the best mmo ever.

20.) All pvp guilds are quitting because one cry baby on the forums says so.

 

More made up **** masqurading as facts at 11.

 

lol love this post

[Dego_Locc]

The game should not be designed for those people.

 

It should be designed for people who like to pvp.

 

News flash, since you post in this thread constantly, and Ignore any opinion that ain't your own.

But most serious PVPers, have left this game already. This games PVP is horrid, and lacking content. 1.2 is Not gonna change that.

[Incendergel]

The game should not be designed for those people.

 

It should be designed for people who like to pvp.

 

Then more power to you because you can do that today and don't need a patch. By all means get your guild, hook up with the other faction and both of you guys can go pvp with nothing on but your loin cloth.

 

Once that is done, come back here and let me know how fun that is? Better yet to set the record straight you would first need to level 1 to 50 again and bypass all the datacrons so no one has a unfair advantage for your Utopia PvP session.

 

Let us face the reality here. People want stuff handed to them for little to no work. They expect to be able to be as good as someone who has played the game longer, learned the ins and outs of maps, other classes, and whatever else they may or may not have gained. How hard is this to understand? We've seen it in rated BG's in WoW, we have seen it in Arena's. People don't want to climb "ANY" ladder to better themselfs and use the excuse that they are out geared.

 

Never are they saying they suck, don't keybind, don't know how to LoS/Pillar Hump, etc. It is always the other person is cheating, out gearing them, or just a OP class / flavor of the month.

 

Bioware gave you everything you already wanted.

 

1. Remove Ilum

2. Moved Ilum dailies to warzones

3. Increased valor for first 4 medals

4. Allowed you to save 1000/1000 valor for 5 bags pre 50

5. Allowed you to purchase a bag pre 50 - in case you can't count - that is 6 bags @ 50

6. Centurion gear, champion gear, battlemaster gear

 

Now think about this for a minute the next time you login and visit the fleet. Look at the gear vending machines / npc's and look at the various gear. Then look at the stat difference. Then do some simple math (if you can) and you will see that there isn't a huge gap which people have been telling you before. Further more, with a whee bit of effort you can actually obtain said gear super EASY now that Bioware already PATCHED IN.

 

You just don't want to do the work. What is next - you want to remove datacrons because they give an unfair advantage? It isn't fair that I have +10 or more to my primary stats than you do? I'm at more health than you because I took the time to actually explore, google, or whatever I did in order to find them?

 

HELLO KITTY is that way - I suggest you try that because some of us don't want your kool-aid.

[Incendergel]

 

DaoC had the best PvP, you actually went to war for something. The pride of your faction, the enemy relics and Darkness Falls.

 

DaOC had realm ranks. Each rank had a ability. As you gained in realm ranks you became that much more powerful.

 

In the utopia pvp format people are advocating here that won't work. It has already failed because some people use datacrons, stims, and other things which adjust the skill level....unless you remove all this upon entering a rated warzone.

[richardya]

The game should not be designed for those people.

 

It should be designed for people who like to pvp.

 

Most people who finished battlemaster get bored and stop playing that character. This is because progression is gone. People like you refuse to believe that you can have gear progression and not ruin PvP. How? Sit down for this. Have moderate progression. Similar to the difference between Champ gear and BM gear.

 

Does someone having 2% better stats than you ruin the game? How do you deal with people having datacron stats? How do you deal with people playing different classes, do you honestly believe the classes are balanced within 2% of each other. You must not ever PvP in 10-49 where people playing the same class have different abilities.

 

Seriously, taking progression out of an MMO is possibly the dumbest thing Bioware could do. The people who say people want progression to pawn new players are wrong, if they were right you wouldn't see people start alts when they finish BM.

 

The whine about removing progression from an MMO is insane. The valid complaint is to not let the gear gap be a deciding factor.

Edited March 16, 2012 by richardya

[Richoshist]

Another thing that strikes me funny about people like the OP is, if there WERE rankings for gear I bet 80% of them would come to the forums and qq because the rankings would be set too high for them to get the weapons. "Waa waa you set the bar too high! I'm a super awesome PvPer and if I can't get to 2500 then it's way too high because I'm like the best player I know! I'm always in WZs telling everyone else how bad they are so you know I'm good!"

 

If playing for pride isn't enough, maybe you should go play a game that favors imbalanced competition.

 

Most people who finished battlemaster get bored and stop playing that character. This is because progression is gone. People like you refuse to believe that you can have gear progression and not ruin PvP. How?

 

The last time I played "the game that we won't name here but it has arena and rated BGs", anyone could obtain the best gear regardless of rank. All they had to do is win X number of matches. It didn't matter if their rating was 10 or 2000. The ONLY exception to the rule was a better weapon at 2200. There was another set of armor at 2200 as well but those stats were IDENTICAL to the set that had no rating req attached to it. It only looked different.

 

Bioware's system is similar to the one most people are comparing it to. You can play unrated WZs for one set of gear and rated WZs for another. The only real differences are 1) they eliminated the ONE piece of gear that had a rating req, and 2) they are allowing people to solo que, which has been a hotly-debated topic in "the game we won't name here."

 

With the system Bioware is proposing, everyone wins. The casuals get a grind for their gear and the chance to PvP on equal footing with everyone else. The "hardcores" get to advance up a ladder and display their ranking for the world to see. The "hardcores" will have something to play for right up until they reach #1, and then they'll have to keep playing to defend that spot. The casuals will log on, play, grind, and about the time they get all their gear there will be a new grind for them, and even for the ones that get all their gear early they'll likely still stay subbed even if they're not logging in because they actually have money and will pay for it.

 

I highly, HIGHLY doubt that the guys who play 2500+ in arena/rated BGs are the ones coming to this forum and complaining, because those guys are already fighting people who are equally geared. Gear discrepancy is not an issue with those people.

 

The only people who are complaining about this system are the also-rans, the #2's, the guys who were pretty good at sports in high school but couldn't cut it in college. The people who were abused as children and are looking to take their anger out on someone weaker.

 

Bioware's system is about as good a compromise as you'll find anywhere. And if these people who can't stand the fact that they aren't unique snowflakes because of their gear can't handle that, then maybe this isn't the game for them. They are likely the ones to leave for greener grass anyway.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Richoshist

[richardya]

If playing for pride isn't enough, maybe you should go play a game that favors imbalanced competition.

 

This is an MMO

[darthtejas]

So valor rank after 1.2 will just be to decorate our armor? So anyone can buy BM gear and not have to be valor rank 60? Im confused...

[Richoshist]

This is an MMO

 

Why can't an MMO be balanced?