Clearing up the facts about Pyrotech.

[Ryotknife]

i suppose i could see removing the proc heavy gameplay style for the sake of pvp but....uh im not sure how that would work out without the procs.

[Raggok]

I also "backpeddle" a lot to ensure my positioning

 

You backpedal a lot because you click so many of your key abilities. You don't have a choice. It's not a tactical decision in your case.

 

I can choose whether to strafe or move backwards while using my abilities. I have that freedom. You don't when you are using abilities that you have to click. You will improve your play even more if you keybind everything.

 

The only time mouselook is convenient to use in the middle of a fight is when you are channeling an ability like pulse cannon or mortar volley.

 

And, no PTs don't need to be nerfed. Stacking stats via mods and consumables needs to be nerfed... more.

[exphryl]

You backpedal a lot because you click so many of your key abilities. You don't have a choice. It's not a tactical decision in your case.

.

 

Key Abilities being.....Vent Heat and taunts....

 

Everything else useful is keybound with a shift modifier. (Although sometimes for me depending on mouse positioning it can be quicker to click an ability or two depending, as it is usually on the right side of the screen)

 

Soooooo....failing to see this point you are getting at other then trying to E-Peen a PvP Scenario with me at this point.

Edited March 10, 2012 by exphryl

[Raggok]

Key Abilities being.....Vent Heat and taunts....

 

Everything else useful is keybound with a shift modifier. (Although sometimes for me depending on mouse positioning it can be quicker to click an ability or two depending, as it is usually on the right side of the screen)

 

Soooooo....failing to see this point you are getting at other then trying to E-Peen a PvP Scenario with me at this point.

 

And your power consumable, and your pvp trinket, and your aoe stun, and your single target stun, and... You know the tooltip shows them when you click them, right?

 

Anyone can see this easily on the videos posted. You do great damage. You know the game mechanics and gear. But, you should really refrain from calling other people terrible until you fix these elements in your gameplay.

 

I'm not perfect either. There is a lot I can improve in myself. But, you are lacking in some of the basic elements here. If you have stuff bound then stop clicking it. You will do even better than you already are. I'm not calling you terrible.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Raggok

[EternalFinality]

Glass Cannon:

Game Term. Refers to a class of vehicle or sometimes a unit that has very high attack strength and sometimes long range but generally poor defense and/or low health as a result.

 

Yes, and where is the poor defense and low health? What kind of armor do they wear again?

 

Glass cannon is nonsense.

[Blurps]

Can you two lovebirds get a room and make out already ?

[CaptainInsano]

Powertechs are glass canons now? I don't even want to know what that makes Operatives then. Paper tigers? Heavy armor and 2k more health doesn't sound like glass to me. I'm seeing the cannon but not the glass. The fact remains that Powertechs are doing more burst today than Operatives were at their peak. Hopefully Powertechs won't be similarly gutted as a viable DPS and will get their burst reallocated to sustained damage.

[savionen]

Powertechs are glass canons now? I don't even want to know what that makes Operatives then. Paper tigers? Heavy armor and 2k more health doesn't sound like glass to me. I'm seeing the cannon but not the glass. The fact remains that Powertechs are doing more burst today than Operatives were at their peak. Hopefully Powertechs won't be similarly gutted as a viable DPS and will get their burst reallocated to sustained damage.

 

Where do Powertechs get 2k more HP from?

[exphryl]

Can you two lovebirds get a room and make out already ?

 

Whoa now. If I am paying for a room I would be depressed if make out was the only thing coming out of it.

 

Oozo, I wasn't saying you are terrible either. The original statement was, on your sake, taken out of context in which you decided to lash out at me. Clicking some abilities and "backpeddling" aside, I'm quite confident In my abilities and not just "relying" on the damage of the class.

 

The original "Terrible" comment I made was in regards to seeing Pyros/Assaults using Unload or Flamethrower (or flame sweep) over the abilities they SHOULD be using (I see them use these in melee range so really 0 excuse for it. especially when I send them a tell if they are same side to help them out since they lost terrible and get told to f off. Heh.)

 

And Captain, I agree 100% Operatives need a buff. However, it's a slippery slope for them as most of their damage can be done on an incapacitated or stunned target.

 

So how to properly balance that, no clue. Lower front end and give them something to use appropriately when out of stealth is all I could think of, what that is I have no idea.

 

In terms of "HP" DPS PTs/VGs modded for the "insane burst" they can do really will top out at about 17k HP (this is with buffed. Without class buff i'm at 16.2k). I see a lot of classes, OPs and even Sorcs around the 18K mark. (But they probably aren't changing out parts of their gear either so it's hard to base stuff off of HP)

Edited March 10, 2012 by exphryl

[Obie_Wan]

If one healer can sustain me through focus fire, I don't exactly qualify as a glass cannon. Compare to a sage or scoundrel for reference - healer or not, you focus and they die. Not so with a Ptech. And 1v1 ..who cares about that. Only in rare situations will a duel effect the outcome of a match. This is team pvp. Because it's balanced that way, it should be contextualized that way.

 

We're demolition machines, pure and simple. And in my opinion, our deficiencies are not great enough to justify the damage we can do.

 

Pretty much this. Powertechs and Vanguards wear the same heavy armour as Juggernauts and Guardians. They argue they have a lack of survivability cooldown when in fact they are on par with other DPS as well. Their CD is a freaking 25% flat damage reduction on a 2 minute cooldown that has a talent in their DPS tree to reduce the CD by 1.5 seconds every time they're hit and it's subject to an internal 1.5 seconds CD.

 

That isn't bad at all, that's pretty damn good. Saber Ward is on a 3 minute cooldown and it has no way of even diminishing its CD. Juggs don't even have talents to increase their armour. Sure it's not great for PT and VG's damage if they do so, but at least they have the option.

 

I totally call BS on their claims that they have low survivability. They have better survivability than Juggernaut and Assassin DPS with steady painful damages to boot.

 

What they honestly lack is mobility, and that flaw isn't a two way street either. You're not going to be able to run from a PT/VG with their snare that does respectable damage + DoT and Grapple.

 

The players of this class would love for people to focus solely on their Railshots so they can compare to other classes which are designed to release one single large chunk of spike damage. They avoid the fact that they can do the same amount of damage, and in some cases of RNG surpass it, as a single 5k-6k Smash within the same average time period that it actually takes to set up the Smash bomb.

 

I applaud Sowwy for making an honest statement. It's fine that people can dispute whether or not the damage a PT/VG can do is off balance or not, but it's a breath of fresh air for some honest reflection on PT/VG survivability. It's not horrible. It's actually better than what an average DPS has.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Obie_Wan

[EternalFinality]

Pretty much this. Powertechs and Vanguards wear the same heavy armour as Juggernauts and Guardians. They argue they have a lack of survivability cooldown when in fact they are on par with other DPS as well. Their CD is a freaking 25% flat damage reduction on a 2 minute cooldown that has a talent in their DPS tree to reduce the CD by 1.5 seconds every time they're hit and it's subject to an internal 1.5 seconds CD.

 

That isn't bad at all, that's pretty damn good. Saber Ward is on a 3 minute cooldown and it has no way of even diminishing its CD. Juggs don't even have talents to increase their armour. Sure it's not great for PT and VG's damage if they do so, but at least they have the option.

 

I totally call BS on their claims that they have low survivability. They have better survivability than Juggernaut and Assassin DPS with steady painful damages to boot.

 

What they honestly lack is mobility, and that flaw isn't a two way street either. You're not going to be able to run from a PT/VG with their snare that does respectable damage + DoT and Grapple.

 

The players of this class would love for people to focus solely on their Railshots so they can compare to other classes which are designed to release one single large chunk of spike damage. They avoid the fact that they can do the same amount of damage, and in some cases of RNG surpass it, as a single 5k-6k Smash within the same average time period that it actually takes to set up the Smash bomb.

 

I applaud Sowwy for making an honest statement. It's fine that people can dispute whether or not the damage a PT/VG can do is off balance or not, but it's a breath of fresh air for some honest reflection on PT/VG survivability. It's not horrible. It's actually better than what an average DPS has.

 

It's interesting how the Pyrotech defense strategy has played out.

 

First it was "LOL no we can never crit for that much"

 

Then it was "Ok maybe we can, but it's completely RNG based! We do massive damage sometimes but most of the time we don't!"

 

Then it was "Ok we deal a lot of damage, but we're glass cannons! Our survivability sucks!"

 

Which is also a lie. At each turn they backpedal and move on to the next excuse. What do they have left with now? A "Rock Paper Scissors" defense?

Edited March 10, 2012 by EternalFinality

[ThePedia]

http://i.imgur.com/baXSj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8lFj3.jpg

 

Just gonna leave these here...

 

Not me, a PT on my server.

Edited March 10, 2012 by ThePedia

[Theology]

Put it into context kid, look at the heals the enemy team has, of course hes going to have 700k damage if theres action for the whole 15 minutes and noone hardly dies.

 

Context, kids, context.

 

Not to mention his pocket heals. Nice try though.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Theology

[exphryl]

Basing off myself:

 

It's interesting how the Pyrotech defense strategy has played out.

 

First it was "LOL no we can never crit for that much"

 

I can crit for 6K+ depending what is going on. Other classes can crit more though.

 

Then it was "Ok maybe we can, but it's completely RNG based! We do massive damage sometimes but most of the time we don't!"

 

It is entirely RNG and Proc based. Somebody who doesn't play the class doesn't understand that though. They see the results of us using our cooldowns and that's it. We may get a lucky crit here and there without buffs but damage lessens quite a bit after everything wears off.

 

In terms of Railshot reset procs, again, you could get very luck and get one every other flame burst or you could be in a heated battle, get up to 100 heat, vent heat, and end up getting back up to 100 because you can't get that proc at all. It's a terrible system to base a class off of. EVERYTHING a pyro has in terms of efficiency relies on that proc.

 

Then it was "Ok we deal a lot of damage, but we're glass cannons! Our survivability sucks!"

 

Which is also a lie. At each turn they backpedal and move on to the next excuse. What do they have left with now? A "Rock Paper Scissors" defense?

 

It's actually not. We are squishy. We aren't Operative squishy, but we really are. Take a few seconds out of your warzone and focus the Pyro, you'll see how quickly they die. (Note: This is not the same for Ion/Shield Hybrids. They have much better staying power then a pure DPS would.)

 

The earlier example was with somebody saying they had a healer on them they can last longer. Conversely, a marauder with a healer does significantly better as they have a much more forgiving resource system compared to us. Also a lot of it relies on the skill and class of the healer. I've seen for sample to go back to it, a DPS Operative stay alive from being focused by many players with a healer keeping him up just fine. Clearly an Operative ahs amazing survivability. It's easy to make a statement with a small sample size though which a lot of people like to do.

 

http://i.imgur.com/baXSj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8lFj3.jpg

 

Just gonna leave these here...

 

We had a sorc in a voidstar yesterday do 850K overall damage. Not sure what your point is in those screenshots. I've seen similar numbers from a lot of classes.

Edited March 10, 2012 by exphryl

[EternalFinality]

It's actually not. We are squishy. We aren't Operative squishy, but we really are.

 

How. This is clearly a lie.

 

We had a sorc in a voidstar yesterday do 850K overall damage. Not sure what your point is in those screenshots. I've seen similar numbers from a lot of classes.

 

Sorcs do it through ranged aoe. All screenshots of insane damage numbers are typically done through ranged aoe. What's the explanation here?

Edited March 10, 2012 by EternalFinality

[exphryl]

Sorcs do it through ranged aoe. All screenshots of insane damage numbers are typically done through ranged aoe. What's the explanation here?

 

PTs have good AOE dps in a grouped up match like voidstar.....

 

This is not new or exciting information.

 

PS: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=340926

 

If you don't want to sift through the post: http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc356/vicboi/Screenshot_2012-02-23_10_30_39_275815.jpg

 

Fun thread in the Sentinel forum about 700k+ damage for that class.

Edited March 10, 2012 by exphryl

[EternalFinality]

PTs have good AOE dps.....

 

This is not new or exciting information.

 

Ah, but a lot of it is melee aoe. We all know they aren't doing it all just using Death From Above. So if someone is putting up huge melee aoe numbers, I guess their survivability is pretty high, eh?

[jokerxdragon]

All I see in this thread is QQ the class is using multiple abilities to deal damage. Like no other class does that. Good grief people. Edited March 10, 2012 by jokerxdragon

[Domiinick]

Pyrotech is just terribly designed. Face it, it's the 'tracer missile' of the PT. You spam flame burst, then railshot, and mabye have a rocket punch in there, that's it.

 

I'm hoping they change it up a bit to make it more.. interesting, cause as of now, it's effective, but boring as sin.

[jokerxdragon]

Pyrotech is just terribly designed. Face it, it's the 'tracer missile' of the PT. You spam flame burst, then railshot, and mabye have a rocket punch in there, that's it.

 

I'm hoping they change it up a bit to make it more.. interesting, cause as of now, it's effective, but boring as sin.

 

Just don't post about things you have no knowledge on.

Edited March 10, 2012 by jokerxdragon

[Raggok]

Sorry for taking things out of context, Ex. Guess I'm just in a foul mood today.

 

Anyway, here is a video where a shadow gets some pretty high crit combos.

 

 

IMO, the problem isn't PT damage. It's damage potential across the board.

[Andreasus]

Basing off myself:

 

I can crit for 6K+ depending what is going on. Other classes can crit more though.

 

 

It is always the same. A class is overpowered and all player knows it except the player playing this class.

 

It is in every mmorpg like this.

 

In your videos you kill 1vs3 sometimes 1 vs 4 and it is ok for you. Killing pleople in 4 GCD.

[gravioli]

Ah, but a lot of it is melee aoe. We all know they aren't doing it all just using Death From Above. So if someone is putting up huge melee aoe numbers, I guess their survivability is pretty high, eh?

 

DFA is the only aoe pyrotechs have that does damage worth mentioning. Flame Sweep is garbage damage/high heat. Flamethrower can do decent damage as long as enemies are standing still in a group and the powertech isn't bouncing around like a pinball because of knockbacks.

[Domiinick]

Just don't post about things you have no knowledge on.

 

Don't even try to fool yourself. I've got a 50 vanguard, and that's exactly what pyro/assault is. You spam flame burst, hurl a thermal det, mash rail shot. It's boring.

[exphryl]

Sorry for taking things out of context, Ex. Guess I'm just in a foul mood today.

 

NP Oozo

 

It is always the same. A class is overpowered and all player knows it except the player playing this class.

 

It is in every mmorpg like this.

 

In your videos you kill 1vs3 sometimes 1 vs 4 and it is ok for you. Killing pleople in 4 GCD.

 

Andreasus, I never actually said our burst wasn't obscene. It is, hell, my latest video just from yesterday's PvP shows some of the high burst:

 

Now though that's with all cooldowns each shot. (This isn't a 31 point pyro either) just to show big numbers. (But then that's just where the fun of a video comes in to play and it also in a way educates the PTs defending that "You can't get 5K crits on heavy armor targets!)

 

Now I'm not going to lie and say I can't beat 1v2 or 3 without cooldowns, it just requires a lot of luck and once it's all over I'm near dead or dead from whatever dot is left on me. (Obvious skill of the other plays comes in account also)

 

The issue is the DESIGN of the class. If they lower the burst but keep the resource system the same, spec'n as a DPS PT will be near useless as there is nothing else we bring to the PvP Table other than having grapple, which is best utilized in a ST/AP (Shield/Tactics) Hybrid or build. (Heat sucks. Not that energy is much better as it's the same but an OP for example has a built in skill by default that increases their regen)

 

I 100% Hate a proc system, hate it with a passion. I personally loved the Warrior combo system Rift had and keep on wondering how awesome it would be to have that on my Pyro. Be slightly lower burst but I'll be able to manage my abilities better.

 

The one issue I don't understand is the design of Flameburst and CGC. Using flameburst automatically adds the CGC dot with it. So you can have a 2k flameburst with a 800/900 CGC Dot crit at the same time as a spammable attack. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be working that way.

Edited March 10, 2012 by exphryl