Turn-XGundam Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It doesn't take much skill, as either the burst dmg rotation "works" or they get unlucky and it doesn't. Powertech is the RNG dps class. ^this i have told people before and i'll tell again assault/pyro are very RNG based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kothakk Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 A pyrotech pretty much get all the cc a Merc gets, all the AoE a Merc gets including death from above + a Grapple and more shields and more mobility A pyrotech shouldnt do that amount of damage they do on the move, while the enemy hes fighting have no chance to ge away due to grapple and snare on every attack. A commando for example have no chance at all against a Pyrotech, there SO many dots pumping out plus the normal fire attacks and railshot. Cleanse? not all can do it, and even if you do, you do no damage back, and its reapplied the second later. At the same time they get alot of interupts on low cooldown. If i would have been able to remake my Commando, i would have made a Vanguard Assault. They have more cc, grapple, do more damage, and have more utility and a tad mroe survivability. More shields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNxAres Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I have a level 50 Vanguard (Powertech equivalent) and I honestly have no clue what everyone is crying about. I am EXTREMELY squishy due to not having defensive cooldowns. And the only time I can do great burst damage with my High Impact Bolt (Rail Shot) is if I have all of my offensive cooldowns burned and I'm lucky enough to get a proc (25% iirc). It's very hard to get 4k crit with HIB (RS) let alone 5-6k crit. These people getting that damage has to have BM gear or something because I have no clue how they're getting such high crits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 You grapple, stun, apply snare, we knockback, but cant use any skill while trying to get away, we cant run away becouse were snared, your back in our face again. Try to use instacast long duration stun to heall up, you use cc break, takes about 2 seconds, try to use any skill, get interupted, throw bombs or anything, but it does to little damage to outdamage your dot fire spamming, fail, and die. Its to easy to lock out commandos, but that goes for pretty much all melee, pyrotech does more damage then marauders though 1v1. They should give commandos and mercenaries a similar tree to spec in to, so they can be more mobile also. We'll call it "Assault" or "Pyro". I figure I'd go with that name so a player can see a similarity between it and it's VG/PT Counterpart. However, I am pretty sure BW has magically locked out this option as I rarely encounter a Merc/Commando that spec in to these mythical trees. (/sarcasm). But on a serious note, seriously, spec in to that tree if you want to be mobile. Complaining Spec A beats Spec B while not adapting or trying something different yourself is asinine. (Scissors: "Nerf Rock, Paper is fine") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeloDaoC Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) They should give commandos and mercenaries a similar tree to spec in to, so they can be more mobile also. We'll call it "Assault" or "Pyro". I figure I'd go with that name so a player can see a similarity between it and it's VG/PT Counterpart. However, I am pretty sure BW has magically locked out this option as I rarely encounter a Merc/Commando that spec in to these mythical trees. (/sarcasm). But on a serious note, seriously, spec in to that tree if you want to be mobile. Complaining Spec A beats Spec B while not adapting or trying something different yourself is asinine. (Scissors: "Nerf Rock, Paper is fine") The commando assault version is much worse then the vanguard version, pretty much for above reasons. Its not only the damage, its the utilities. I see PT pyros die to other melees, but against ranged, their extremly powerful. Question is, should they be able to lock out commandos completly? beeing unable to escape at all? Maybe its more that commandos should have more skills to make them able to get away, like sages have sprint and more cc, while commandos have..nothing. Will see how that new sprint thingy will work out Edited March 10, 2012 by SeloDaoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclekaula Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 All I got out of the OP post was 'yeah we're op dmg but we have no def so its cool'... other than your 35+ armor reduc. 15k off 4-5 gcd? Say that outloud, 15k off 4-5 gcd... okay... still think you're not OP? Get your head checked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The commando assault version is much worse then the vanguard version, pretty much for above reasons. Its not only the damage, its the utilities. I see PT pyros die to other melees, but against ranged, their extremly powerful. Question is, should they be able to lock out commandos completly? beeing unable to escape at all? Maybe its more that commandos should have more skills to make them able to get away, like sages have sprint and more cc, while commandos have..nothing. Will see how that new sprint thingy will work out PTs have no way to escape any scenario so i'm not sure what point you are trying to make. By no means am I saying we don't do a lot of damage, we do. But we have ZERO tools to get away from a player. (Except maybe an operative that has vanish on cooldown, they really can't do much to chase people down) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNxAres Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 All I got out of the OP post was 'yeah we're op dmg but we have no def so its cool'... other than your 35+ armor reduc. 15k off 4-5 gcd? Say that outloud, 15k off 4-5 gcd... okay... still think you're not OP? Get your head checked! It's impossible to do that with a Vanguard (Powertech). 15k off of 4 shots is about 3,750 each hit. If your stockstrike, high impact bolt, ion pulse and whatever the pyro 31 ability is (some grendae) does 3,750 each then I want to know how you do that. My HIB does anywhere from 1500-3k damage (anything higher than 2.5k is luck/against lower geared people). 15k off of 5 shots is 3k each. Which is a little more viable I guess, but still next to impossible to achieve. If anything, we (Vanguards and PTs) popped our offensive cooldowns and got lucky. How about you try to play a Vanguard or Powertech and then you can see how "OP" it isn't. For those of you who have NOT played a Vanguard or Powertech and are posting in this thread, stop QQing and roll one. Then you'll see how we are perfectly balanced. We make up for being squishy by doing okay-good damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyrprime Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Maybe the Vanguard/PT version of Pyro spec is better than the Merc.. but after the DoT change my Merc Pyro got respecc'd healer and put on a shelf because I hate healers, refuse to be tracer missle n00b and pyro lost all it's utility. Way to on griping about a nearly useless spec. My main is an Assassin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeloDaoC Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 PTs have no way to escape any scenario so i'm not sure what point you are trying to make. By no means am I saying we don't do a lot of damage, we do. But we have ZERO tools to get away from a player. (Except maybe an operative that has vanish on cooldown, they really can't do much to chase people down) Your still good in melee range, you can still damage back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Pyrotechs are calling themselves glass cannons now? What the hell? Where is the glass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNxAres Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Pyrotechs are calling themselves glass cannons now? What the hell? Where is the glass? Glass Cannon: Game Term. Refers to a class of vehicle or sometimes a unit that has very high attack strength and sometimes long range but generally poor defense and/or low health as a result. The general strategy for them is to either destroy the enemy before being attacked or hides behind other, stronger ally units. Taken from Urban Dictionary. Basically Vanguards/Powertech can be powerful (offensive) but weak (defensive). The only way a Vanguard/Powertech can have SOME survivability is to go in the tank tree with Supercommando armor. But when you go into the tank tree, say goodbye to your damage. Edited March 10, 2012 by WNxAres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Pyrotechs need a nerf. I have one, BM geared - war hero. They need a nerf. Period.end.of.story. I want a skilled, competitive pvp field. Dropping players in 4-5GCDs is just the opposite. It's not hard to do, anyone can do it. Glass cannon? Please, give me a healer and you can focus me all day long. Anyone who makes an argument otherwise cannot (or will not) objectively analyze the situation. HOWEVER, if they "fix" pyro while allowing AdvP to remain craptastic, I'll be extremely annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theangryllama Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 You grapple, stun, apply snare, we knockback, but cant use any skill while trying to get away, we cant run away becouse were snared, your back in our face again. Try to use instacast long duration stun to heall up, you use cc break, takes about 2 seconds, try to use any skill, get interupted, throw bombs or anything, but it does to little damage to outdamage your dot fire spamming, fail, and die. Its to easy to lock out commandos, but that goes for pretty much all melee, pyrotech does more damage then marauders though 1v1. Yeah thats not a 'pyro is overpowered' issue. Thats a 'welcome to the glaring weakness of the 1 button wonder' issue. You crumple if any melee gets up and in your face but you trade that off by having the single largest damage if left alone to turret. And as a note with your knockbacks, same defensive cooldowns as us, heals and a passive 10% damage reduction from tracer spam mercs/commandos are actually harder to kill than we are, if we didn't stop you from tracer/grav spamming our face off we would lose. And no we don't out damage marauders. We out burst marauders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srolo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Valor 63 here and I have yet to burst anybody down in 4-5 GCD's. Full champion with BM earpiece/implants and BM boots and leggings. I've also swapped the enhancement in my champion gloves for the one in the agent gloves to give me more power. I have never gotten a 5k railshot crit. Ever. I can count on one hand the times I've gotten 4k crits. Generally, without popping my cooldowns I hit for about 3.3k average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Glass cannon? Please, give me a healer and you can focus me all day long. . DPS Class + Healer = Powerful Damage that takes awhile to kill? News at 11. I personally like the odd times I get a healer *AND* a guard. Now that is some trollsy dps I'm capable of in group scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNxAres Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 DPS Class + Healer = Powerful Damage that takes awhile to kill? News at 11. I personally like the odd times I get a healer *AND* a guard. Now that is some trollsy dps I'm capable of in group scenarios. We're not talking about having a pocket healer and a guard, we're talking about 1v1. I have NEVER seen a vanguard pop cooldowns and take someone down in 4-5 hits. Please someone take a video of someone doing that, THEN I will believe it. Until then I call BS. Pure BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) We're not talking about having a pocket healer and a guard, we're talking about 1v1. I have NEVER seen a vanguard pop cooldowns and take someone down in 4-5 hits. Please someone take a video of someone doing that, THEN I will believe it. Until then I call BS. Pure BS. I'm aware. The guy I was quoting was arguing against "glass cannon" remark by saying he has a healer with him. Obviously you remove the lack of survivability when you have a healer with you which was my point to his. secondly, what crazy servers do people have where every PT and Vanguard are Pyro and geared/enhanced appropriately to do good damage? My server, both sides combined, have about 3........... Edited March 10, 2012 by exphryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggok Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 There are only two decent Pyro PTs on our server (maybe 3, but that's a long stretch),since well, we are on the same server. The rest are terrible or spec'd a dumb shield hybrid... =/ You click abilties and you backpedal but call other people terrible, not realizing that you are being carried by your damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggok Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 PTs have no way to escape any scenario Pyro PTs, you mean. PTs have escape tools but you would have to sacrifice some DPS tree damage to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) You click abilties and you backpedal but call other people terrible, not realizing that you are being carried by your damage. Maturity at it's finest. Congrats sir. My apologies I don't find strafing around targets that auto-face, or have autoface casting, as well as jumping, pertinent pvp "Skillz" Edited March 10, 2012 by exphryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggok Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Maturity at it's finest. Congrats sir. So, it's mature for you to call other people terrible but when I point out flaws in your game play you call me immature? Hypocrisy at it's finest. And calling people dumb because they do a hybrid to gain more utility which, in turn, helps their team win? Seriously? Yes, teams need pure DPSers but they also need Vanguards/PTs with utility to win warzones. You might not have noticed but there are no Deathmatch warzones. Edited March 10, 2012 by Raggok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggok Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Maturity at it's finest. Congrats sir. My apologies I don't find strafing around targets that auto-face, or have autoface casting, as well as jumping, pertinent pvp "Skillz" Movement is important for PvP, unless you just flat out overwhelm people with damage. BTW, circle strafing and jumping isn't just done to gain position or LoS on the person you are fighting. It is done so you can have 360 degree vision of what is happening around you. That helps with what is called "awareness of your surroundings." You can also do that by panning your camera, but this game doesn't allow the camera that amount of freedom of movement. By not circle strafing you become totally unaware of what is happening behind you. That back and forth S-key movement of yours hinders your awareness of surroundings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) I also "backpeddle" a lot to ensure my positioning in the case of a knockback on classes to allow maximum uptime on my target, or to lessen the potential line of sight issues I may encounter if I do get knocked back farther then I would expect. "Circle Strafing" can have undesirable effects from a knockback. (While my method isn't a guarantee success all the time, it works enough to not give me a reason to change it in this game. ) In terms of surroundings, mouse look isn't difficult and doesn't require strafing and works fine for when I need it. People are to dense to make that connection a lot of times and instead fall back on a wow kiddie insult to critique somebody's playstyle. Edited March 10, 2012 by exphryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 DPS Class + Healer = Powerful Damage that takes awhile to kill? News at 11. I personally like the odd times I get a healer *AND* a guard. Now that is some trollsy dps I'm capable of in group scenarios. If one healer can sustain me through focus fire, I don't exactly qualify as a glass cannon. Compare to a sage or scoundrel for reference - healer or not, you focus and they die. Not so with a Ptech. And 1v1 ..who cares about that. Only in rare situations will a duel effect the outcome of a match. This is team pvp. Because it's balanced that way, it should be contextualized that way. We're demolition machines, pure and simple. And in my opinion, our deficiencies are not great enough to justify the damage we can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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