Boops Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/248ipzbt.asp?page=1 An interesting article breaking down empire vs. republic - and why there is some confusion on who the real good guys are. enjoy, I did. Boop Arkata Mind Prison server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I loved it. This goes into other things too...such as: http://www.cracked.com/article_17546_7-classic-star-wars-characters-who-totally-dropped-ball.html http://www.cracked.com/article_17546_7-classic-star-wars-characters-who-totally-dropped-ball.html And my favorite... the point that Chewbacca is a troll. Break into the Prison, he kills no one, shoots the speakers (doesn't like muzak...as seen in ANH)Pushes on Garbage Compactor Walls, Walls stop, he stops pushing (watch it! ...as seen in ANH)Breaks the Hyperdrive, never fixes it (Can be seen in ESB)Screams "OWNED!" as Han Solo is frozen in carbonite (Can be seen in ESB)Tries to Choke the only living black man in the Starwars Universe to death (Can be seen in ESB)Tries to Choke the only living black man in the Starwars Universe to death because he is helping princess Liea (Can be seen in ESB)Gets Millenium Falcon after Han Solo Frozen, Hyperdrive suddenly works (Can be seen in ESB)Dangles Han Solo Over Sarlacc threatening him with death (for the LoLs...as seen in RoTJ)Noogies Han Imprisonned in Jabba's Palace after being freed from carbonite (for the LoLs...as seen in RoTJ)Captures AT-ST on Forst Moon of Endor, lets Ewoks drive (for the LoLs...as seen in RoTJ)Never Kills a Single Enemy (Across All Movies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonezmccoy Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Seriosuly, this article is TEN years old and predates the child-murdering committed by one Darth Vader. It does NOT predate the genocide of an entire world's population by the empire. It does not predate the removal of all democratic function. Article was crap then. It's crappier now. Edited March 8, 2012 by Notannos rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethgilne Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 good or bad, the Sith philosophy that the Empire is built on just doesn't pan out in the long term http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/02/13/five-leadership-mistakes-of-the-galactic-empire/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Seriosuly, this article is TEN years old and predates the child-murdering committed by one Darth Vader. It does NOT predate the genocide of an entire world's population by the empire. It does not predate the removal of all democratic function. Article was crap then. It's crappier now. Well, child murder is on Vader, not the Empire. As for the destruction of Alderran, they're peaceful, they have no weapons there. Well, that may be true, but who is funding the Rebels? I'm sure the ruling class on Alderran was super psyched about having their power taken by the Empire. I'm sure the slaves that they more than likely had (because it was a regular occurance during the Republic) hated their sudden freedom. Sorry, but outter rim or not, if travel is instantanious, then they have a duty to free slaves. I think it's more likely that the Empire was cutting off the Rebel money supply. Edited March 8, 2012 by Notannos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacity Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Always advocated that the imperials are the good guys, and both my bounty hunter and imperial agent are lightsiders at that =P In SW:ToR's era, the empire only has two things going against it: 1. The Sith Lords. There is no 'rule of two' yet, and the empire is chock-full of sith lords that are constantly battling one another for power and influence. The sith also have absolutely no military strategy, and are extremely arrogant even when they're proven wrong beyond a doubt (this comes up in the imperial agent storyline several times). Much of this may be because the Emperor is, for all intents and purposes, absent - nobody really knows where he is, or even who he is, and decisions are made by the squabbling, infighting-plagued dark council. 2. Racism. The Empire and the majority of it's citizens are humans who are extremely racist against all non-human species (save for those that become sith lords). If the Empire would throw away it's purism and accept alien species, it would be a much more powerful entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancrizans Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Lol that was an amusing read, but seriously the logic there was stretched far beyond the breaking point on the first page already. It is also evidence of how people will manipulate and color information to suit their own preferences, even when the obvious is staring them right in the face. Edited March 8, 2012 by Cancrizans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonezmccoy Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Well, child murder is on Vader, not the Empire. As for the destruction of Alderran, they're peaceful, they have no weapons there. Well, that may be true, but who is funding the Rebels? I'm sure the ruling class on Alderran was super psyched about having their power taken by the Empire. I'm sure the slaves that they more than likely had (because it was a regular occurance during the Republic) hated their sudden freedom. Sorry, but outter rim or not, if travel is instantanious, then they have a duty to free slaves. I think it's more likely that the Empire was cutting off the Rebel money supply. Negatory on the first point - the death of those children is on the hands of Supreme Chancellor / Emperor Palpatine for ordering it just as much as it's on Vader as well as the clone troopers for carrying it out. The betrayal of the Jedi was not a moment-in-time action, either... it was a General Order, meaning it was something every clone trooper knew of (and were presumably ordered to remain silent about). Clearly, an act of evil. Alderaan - In non-canon it's always a core world. There's nothing in the movies saying where it is - it could be either OR or CW. Either way, regardless of the existence of slaves, there were innocents there - and more kids, come to think of it. Destruction of an entire population for politicial reasons, no matter who may be hiding in that population, what treachery may be afoot, etc. is unquestioningly evil. Is it right to shoot a suspected rebel's mother because her son might be a rebel? is it right to shoot the rebel's kid? Multiply that by several million at least. Edited March 8, 2012 by Bonezmccoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebaron Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) I always thought the Empire was the misunderstood good guys. Brutal, unforgiving, but for good reason. But in the game, they are just plain evil. There is no higher goal here, they are as misguided as the Republic. edit - wtb mandalore faction, pst Edited March 8, 2012 by Icebaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmaguz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Bad troll. Bad troll. No cookies for you. Seriosuly, this article is TEN years old and predates the child-murdering committed by one Darth Vader. It does NOT predate the genocide of an entire world's population by the empire. It does not predate the removal of all democratic function. Article was crap then. It's crappier now. That, now move along. The Galactic Empire's racist just as much. And uh... Child murdering is on the Emperor, Vader executed his orders, the Emperor IS the Empire. Alderaan had no slaves, House Thul is the only house practising it during TOR and it's encouraged by the Sith. The Empire used slaves and regularly killed them for whatsoever reason, don't give me that **** lol. Next thing you'll say the light side of the force is really the evil counterpart. Edited March 8, 2012 by Lightmaguz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydiousSWG Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 These words are Green Despite they yellow text slapping you in the face, it says they are green... must be true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonezmccoy Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 To get this back on track and not moved to the lore-related forums, in SWTOR, the empire is CLEARLY evil. No bones about it, they murder pillage, and worse through the galaxy. Even if a player is light-side, the rest of the empire is just wickedly evil. None of the NPCs on the Dark Council are good. Their underlings are all evil. Their minions are bacstabbing infighting murderers. They encourage torture and murder as the cornerstones of a good vocational education like they were reading and mathematics. In the JK quest you learn that the Emperor has plans underway to end ALL LIFE in the galaxy to become nothing short of a god! Yeah, if that guy's the boss... no way his upper management are going to be good people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) In SWTOR, the Sith are pretty obviously evil. The Imperial military is more grey. The Republic isn't much better with its experimentation on prisoners, rendition, assassination of Republic citizens, torture, refusing to do anything about mass poverty, looking the other way on slavery, etc. Edited March 8, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxmendacium Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yeah when Moff Tarkin blew up that peaceful planet...he should have won a nobel peace prize! I guess the 'ole moff could just say that Alderaan was planning a deliberate attack on the imperial fleet and the only way to prevent massive casualties onboard the fleet was by blowing up the entire planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxmendacium Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 In SWTOR, the Sith are pretty obviously evil. The Imperial military is more grey. The Republic isn't much better with its experimentation on prisoners, rendition, assassination of Republic citizens, torture, refusing to do anything about mass poverty, looking the other way on slavery, etc. It's my understanding that at least with the Republic the jedi are in fact good (most of them) even if the Republic itself is tainted whereas the empire is almost always through and through evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Meh...after commiting near Genocide the UN made Pol Pot part of the piece process. Many don't even know who he was, nor do they know that he made hitler look like Santa Claus. Even worse, he did what he did only 40 years ago. Sorry, but time and antention really determine who was bad, who was good. The Empire just made sure that no one on Alderran was around to say who did what. Sounds like good planning to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 It's my understanding that at least with the Republic the jedi are in fact good (most of them) even if the Republic itself is tainted whereas the empire is almost always through and through evil. The Jedi almost constantly violate the rights of the accused. They kill rather than bring to trial. Judge, jury and executioner... We have words for people like that, and "good" isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 It's my understanding that at least with the Republic the jedi are in fact good (most of them) even if the Republic itself is tainted whereas the empire is almost always through and through evil. I don't remember Anakin ever saying boo about the Genocide taking place on Naboo. The Gungans, native species were being killed by the Humans ruled by Queen Abdiblahblah...of course, that didn't matter because trade was being interrupted. Jedi = centerion of greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 In SWTOR, the Sith are pretty obviously evil. The Imperial military is more grey. The Republic isn't much better with its experimentation on prisoners, rendition, assassination of Republic citizens, torture, refusing to do anything about mass poverty, looking the other way on slavery, etc. Don't forget all the out right corruption everywhere in the republic. From a faction POV here are no good guys in SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmaguz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The Reps are not all good, no society is all good or all evil but the ideal behind the Republic is good. Most of the things you mentioned is punished during the Rep's campaign. The senator experimenting on Belsavis was arrested and his project cancelled, the corrupt senators at Coruscant were all likely punished and so on so on. Moff Tarkin(with the Emperor's clearance and Vader right by his side) blew up Alderaan to sow fear in the core worlds and outer rim. Alderaan was a visible target and it's politicians(the Organas and Antilles) were quite rebellious. It's an act impossible to redeem. Going by that notion of pre-emptive war he should have destroyed Chandrila and Corellia as well as many other planets. Mon Calamari, Sullust ad eternium. The Jedi almost constantly violate the rights of the accused. They kill rather than bring to trial. Judge, jury and executioner... We have words for people like that, and "good" isn't one of them. You must be playing your Jedi wrong... And uh I'd rather kill the Sith instead of allowing them to gut me in cold blood with no reason, which they'll do anyway except for rare exceptions(Scourge among them so far.) and converts. Whenever it's possible Jedi try to keep their enemies contained. Of course one can only go so far when the guy won't stop even after losing his arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I liked the part in SWTOR where you find out that the Reps give immediate life sentences to babies who are born to mothers in prison. Oh you Reps.....*shakes finger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CecilTellyn Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 In the JK quest you learn that the Emperor has plans underway to end ALL LIFE in the galaxy to become nothing short of a god! Yeah, if that guy's the boss... no way his upper management are going to be good people. This. This, this, this, this, this. Regarding SWTOR, you can't think the Sith are anything but horribly evil, just based on this ^ spoiler alone. Playing through the Sith Inquisitor storyline gets you the same answer (at least as far as I've played it, not all the way through that one yet). The Republic is corrupt and terrible, don't get me wrong. Playing through the Jedi Knight storyline just reinforces how bad the Republic is. But even at their worst, they still aren't on par with the Sith Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) I play on the side of the Empire, and I do recognize its virtues but if I were really living in the Star Wars world I would take the side of the Republic in a heartbeat. Freedom and liberty are a lot more messy, totalitarianism a lot more clean and tidy --yet I still prefer the former (as does everyone else) I do think it's interesting that in Attack of the Clones Dooku promises limited government, unlimited free trade, and capitalism --this likely sounds like Dark Side rhetoric to Hollyweird liberals Edited March 11, 2012 by Ellvaan Inappropriate Content (quoted removed content) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That makes no sense. I mean, that's the equivalent of Dr. Evil asking for 100 Billion dollars in 1950. Remember when they mock him? It's like that. I mean, was this crap written by a 5 year old? He wants to kill all life in the galaxy so he has power over what? No one? It just doesn't make sense. That's the dumbest storyline I've ever heard. I can't tell if that's evil or retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) well in the Sith Warrior quest you find out that the person claiming to be the Emperor's voice was really a fraud, and that his true voice was imprisoned on Voss. Edited March 8, 2012 by HBninjaX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts