MasterApollo Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Alright, I want to discuss this sensibly, so please don't rage or just post qq etc. I want opinions if you post (so please be constructive!) and I'm going to give my thoughts in the first post. I'll start by saying I play on Starstorm One (English EU PvP server). We (as a guild) moved here early on after the crazy queues of the first 2+ weeks, on the recommendation of your community staff (specifically the likes of Stephen Reid posting on twitter to move to the new servers if you didn't want to queue). We did and now we're a good sized guild with over 100 people all enjoying the game. The problem we and many others on the server face is the large Russian community who all flocked here during pre-launch. Now, I don't have a problem with many of the Russian players who want to work with us with building a community. They talk to us in English and take part in PvP and PvE. However, that's a minority. Most don't speak English like most of us don't speak Russian. Most of the peak time the chat can easily get flooded with Russian and/or fights break out between English and Russian speakers which leaves us to either a)put the Russian player on ignore to stop their chat showing, or b) close chat altogether if it's particularly bad and you don't want to spend time ignoring a whole server worth of Russian players. This particularly falls apart when you then go into a warzone/flashpoint/operation with some Russian players as odds on you'd probably put them on ignore already or you can't understand them. All of this results to negative behaviour and actions in the community and is effectively doing the exact opposite of what you want with the game in the long term which is for groups to develop into large communities on each server. There can only really be one logic solution, as has been proven with many games in the past. Give the Russians their own server. Hell, host it in Ireland as it'll be just as close as the EU ones that they are now and they'll all be able to play the game without coming to loggerheads with the English players all the time. This isn't the Russian players faults, I should stress that. It's simply that, unlike other large language groups, Russian wasn't taken into account. They already play without a translation of the game, so giving them a whole new game translated into Russian should not be a supposed hold-up for this happening. Just speak to your folks to get a nice news flash done in Russian that you're hosting a new Russian server and how to get onto it. You have the tech, as is proven with the oceanic servers opening and moving people onto them from existing servers. So please, do the community a favour. It'll make the English players happy and it'll make the Russian players happy. Neither groups will have to constantly ***** and moan about "which language to use in general chat" and to "stop speaking abracadabra language" and so on and the community might be able to go on and grow and develop properly. As right now there's just a whole lot of negativity around on both sides. Thanks for your time (apologies for the wall of text) Edited March 8, 2012 by MasterApollo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawx Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 allready posted. heres the link http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=315980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toryn Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Agreed, and this needs to be stated at the start, I do not have any issue with playing with russian players. Hell I have played with some great players, however the majority of my encounters have been frustratinbg to say the least. Trying to communicate is near impossible at times, and coordianting an FP or Warzone is a nightmare. This whole issue...I think, stemed from a russian gaming website stating SS1 as a Russian server, hence a lot flocked there. I do not know if this adds to the issue of finding groups and socialising with others outside of the guild, but it is getting increasingly difficult. This is not by any means a, 'we don't want people speaking different languages' thread. It just really makes communicating and playing the game to a fun level very hard and frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawx Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Im not gonna repeat myself too much, but i totally agree, and i have whitnessed this phonemanom before, some people tagged specific server i was originally using for certain language for people outside designated server language. In the end, they could not do anything about for it. for now, we can prevent this happening: make notifications on server languages and keeping conversations on general channels as server designated languages. NOTES!generic rule stating using external languages on official channels (/1 /2 & /3), as ToS (minor) violation (world of warcraft learned this hard way, they altered theyr ToU, i accidently spoke within english realm main channel using finnish to my lil bro, and got 2 weeks silence penalty (no speaking in general channels or chat, unless spoken first)Hints on how to create new channel for players who want to join up with theyr language servers. If players want to talk within theyr native languages, do so in UNOFFICIAL channels.if this is not interveined, we the players do not have any means to report illegal actions and terms of rules violations, yes it is our POWER to do so, as GMs cant always see every single violation some aholes do. (sorry language, but those guys ruin our gaming experience) soon may be too late to do anything about it, wow ended up giving free transfers off the server, they could do nothing else. First there was a flood of people, then people started to leave, realm economy died, server died... rules remade, server relaunced. after there are preset rules and guidelines made, then comes reinforcement: tiniest way to correct this is that when you are clearly marked and found guilty in this specific violation, you can be silenced from speaking in generic channels for 2 days. If this violation continues, 2 weeks. If continues, either 2 more weeks or banned for continuosly violating ToS. NOTE: these apply on SERVER SPECIFIC GENERAL CHATS only. If you make your own channel for your language, you are showing us respect and not flooding OUR channel with conversation, we cant understand. We keep off your channel. Edited March 8, 2012 by JHawx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I find it odd that the with how many nationalities that MMOs cater to nowadays, that Square Enix is the only company with an "auto-translate" feature for chat. <Experience Points> <Can I have it?> <Tank> <You can have this> As silly as it sounds... It works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 There can only really be one logic solution, as has been proven with many games in the past. Give the Russians their own server. Hell, host it in Ireland as it'll be just as close as the EU ones that they are now and they'll all be able to play the game without coming to loggerheads with the English players all the time. Bioware can't predict exactly where players, of any kind, are going to go. Given there's already bad population imbalances, do you really want them creating language specific servers? There's also nothing preventing the problem from repeating itself, eg a Russian server suddenly becoming overcome by German or Ukranian players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawx Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 There's also nothing preventing the problem from repeating itself, eg a Russian server suddenly becoming overcome by German or Ukranian players. Yes there is and its creating rules in ToS, as mentioned previously. First you tell people how to make theyr own channels, then guide how to make em, then start to enforce it as rule violations. 2 days not able to speak to others will tech em how to go to the channel, where you dont bother others. Sure, in the end it would be great if russians get theyr own language, and realm where they can understand what is happening in the game lorevice, would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yes there is and its creating rules in ToS, as mentioned previously. First you tell people how to make theyr own channels, then guide how to make em, then start to enforce it as rule violations. 2 days not able to speak to others will tech em how to go to the channel, where you dont bother others. Given Bioware's lack of interest in enforcing already established naming rules, and their poor CS support in general, how effective do you think such a system would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alconos Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Maybe they can just add something to the chat program/engine whatever it is, that translates all text to a predefined language automatically. Like go into options and choose which language you'd like everything translated to and bam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawx Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Given Bioware's lack of interest in enforcing already established naming rules, and their poor CS support in general, how effective do you think such a system would be? Well, that i do not know, all i can give is my experience on similar matter and how it was dealth with. How would you suggest solving this problem? I gave you my solution, and initial solution is to guide players to make custom channel and migate players who wants to use it to use it. Now there is nothing encouraging players to do so, neither there are guides or guiding people to do it. again, 3 steps: 1, give players knowledge how to do it, 2. guide people to it, 3. make good enough reason why players should do it (trigger being, if i dont, i wont speak at all) so simple, rather than converting whole realm to russian, hiring several russion GMs, needing to apply almost definetly acwardly working translation program that suggest us to "visit out hotel, have hapy stay, at end, hung yourself and give us all your money, welcome back again"... translation, you get working enviroment, where people wont get harrassed because they dont know english, and we who speak english but not russia, can co-exist. Custom channels are not limited to specific languages, you can make your owns for all languages youll be needing u know, and they dont harass eachother. you can join to channels, an leave. lets be honest: we the players are like a donkey driven cart. * your the donkey that only knows to do 1 thing and its to walk with the cart hang to y... play the game. * Somehow theres in front of you a carrot on a stick and you want the carrot. * ofc, you dont understand the guy yelling from the cart, but you want the carrot, it kinda looks yummy. * At the end of the walk, the loud guy usually gives me the carrot, but if i go see some sexy donkey or go to watering hole, the guy slaps my behind with a whip. game is the walking, when i do something i should not be, im punished & when i do well, im rewarded from the experience. You dont need language to grasp the concept. Edited March 8, 2012 by JHawx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterApollo Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Bottom line is it's putting negative feelings about playing on the server (certainly on starstorm one) which, over time, does tend to result in people leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Bottom line is it's putting negative feelings about playing on the server (certainly on starstorm one) which, over time, does tend to result in people leaving. Perhaps, but I don't think that segregation is a viable solution to a communication problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawx Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Perhaps, but I don't think that segregation is a viable solution to a communication problem. Well it is not ideal solution, it does separate people from eachother, but it does solve the problem. Common language players societies can co-exist in same servers without annoying eachother out. Thing is, if you cant understand half of the text people are speaking, that is a problem. Mainly, there will be 5-6 societies living on same server, but why it is a good idea? ECONOMICS! People are still producing items on auchtion house, that requires no verbal trading. Stuff gets still sold. Everybody do understand shorts: /3 (trade channel) : WTB [item Link & Name] x33, 250k /stk Only disadvantage is that those players wont help eac hother around as much, but thats dual edged sword. They will be finding company more easily that will understand eachother, making co-op easier. But as a reminder, you are joining to a server that has designated english/german/etch. as main language for the realm, if you dont understand the server native language, it tends to leave to trouble. I understand that, i really do, you dont understand what others are saying. But when you start to speak your own native, WE dont either understand you. When you create and join channel for your native, you are being courteus and show us respect. Not all russian players are russian only, they do know how to speak in both channels and keep it respectaple. I only got trouble on people who join server, know english but REFUSES to use it... Now thats ignorance and inpoliteness towards others. By creating theyr own channel, they dont force theyr uncomprehendable language to us, again, problem solved. ability to make your own channelability to join or not show channelsencouraging players to use custom channels and not flood major realmspecific channels, to keep those in official business. Edited March 9, 2012 by JHawx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I wonder if Russian speaking players live in countries other than Russia. Edited March 9, 2012 by illgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawx Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I wonder if Russian speaking players live in countries other than Russia. migration laws inside russia are pretty tight. and the country itself has 5-6 different russianic accents, depending how close they are to the west, midland or asia. Being largest country out there, you must think big in solutions and problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyloh Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I know it's not ideal but you could make an English only custom channel /create English (or a different custom name) and spread the word for your non russian speaking server members to chat there?? and hopefully the Russian community will do the same?? Tell your friends to /cjoin English (or channel name) and if it doesn't work /cleave (channel name) Our server has a /cjoin LFG and we pug ops from there a lot so custom channels do work Good luck I can only imagine how difficult language barriers could be, but it would be funny if you began learning russian smack talking as well, so there is a plus+ heh Ps. I saw someone post something similar on the bottom of the first page, I'm just saying it in my own way and agree with their post. As with most things YOU can choose to leave but you'd be hard pressed to FORCE someone else to leave... Not ideal, but that IS the only true control you have in life. Edited March 9, 2012 by xyloh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawx Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I know it's not ideal but you could make an English only custom channel /create English (or a different custom name) and spread the word for your non russian speaking server members to chat there?? and hopefully the Russian community will do the same?? This is what i have told all along... lol. Good luck I can only imagine how difficult language barriers could be, but it would be funny if you began learning russian smack talking as well, so there is a plus+ heh Well, i live next to russia, so i can cuss in it fluently allready, took years to claim independence out of em and lost a lot of land also. but not a bad idea either. Anyways, i have given my 2 cents on this matter, taking subscription offline and hoping solution is made (and soon enough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindi Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Tbh this is why I play on US servers. Not because of any particular people or language, but I like to be able to communicate with as much of the server as possible, if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterApollo Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm going to be like a bad rash you can't get rid of until this is actually acknowledged by Bioware. Once again, warzones tonight are getting completely spoilt by players who don't speak english and just )))) in chat all the time everytime you try to organise things. You're killing what's left of your PvP by not making it so I can either never enter warzones with Russian players (through putting them on ignore or similar) or giving the Russians a server so they can enjoy their own company. It's getting beyond stupid especially if you expect ranked warzones to be the saviour of your PvP system when I can tell you now all you'll get is people rage quiting because simple communication is a problem and winning will become impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterApollo Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 There's a thread with a similar discussion on the server forums here about this very topic. So although I'm the more vocal one here, I'm not the only one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warriorcat Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 bumping this for some love this is still driving me crazy -Dakri 50 Vanguard -Raffes 50 Opertive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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