Sorcerers... do they really need ALL these abilities?

[Luckorforever]

this just in - sorcs have zero mobility.

 

healing sorcers, even less.

 

Force Speed ... every 30 seconds ... zero mobiity ... yes

[GrandMike]

Force Speed ... every 30 seconds ... zero mobiity ... yes

 

Force speed -> stun/root/pull/leap -> dead sorc

 

Mobility is awesome, you can get ported all across the map to spawn area on demand

Edited March 9, 2012 by GrandMike

[evoleye]

Yes, yes I do need all these skillz. Stop crying and stand still while i throw force lighting in your face.

[Sosajoshua]

really? another thread whining about sorcerers? shut up and play the game. learn to kill us properly or just join us

[xaven_]

I got force speed. Does that mean I am invincible now?

 

 

 

Cool.

[Tatermitts]

Yes, yes I do need all these skillz. Stop crying and stand still while i throw force lighting in your face.

 

Respect knuckles.

[Deresdod]

If you can't kill a sorc, you're doing something wrong.

[Hydrott]

If you can't kill a sorc, you're doing something wrong.

 

If you lose as a Sorcerer, you're doing something wrong.

 

 

See what i did there?

[xaven_]

If you lose as a Sorcerer, you're doing something wrong.

 

 

See what i did there?

 

Yep, writing nonsense.

[Barzarel]

really? another thread whining about sorcerers? shut up and play the game. learn to kill us properly or just join us

 

What would it help if their problem to begin with is USING their utilities, how will playing a class which is built around utility help them *Laugh*

 

Same story every MMO really, hybrid and utility classes always get massively nerfed, because the semi-pro/less skilled players can't tactically out maneuvering players who know how to make good use of them.

 

EDIT: PvP need to be a 2-button game then everyone know what to do.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Barzarel

[Kiyoma]

Let me think:

 

• Stuns (plural, as in multiple),
  
• Sprint,
  
• A spammable attack with a built in snare
  
• A bubble (and a very good bubble at that) with a low cooldown,
  
• An almost infinate resource pool to draw from if spec'd correctly,
  
• The abiltiy to effectively heal and DPS,
  
• One of, if not the, lowest CD KB in the game (did I mentioned that it's AoE)
  
• A ranged snare,
  
• At least one root,
  
• Almost idiotically good synergy within their trees,
  
• Excellent sustained damage,
  
• Talents that when using your spammable attacked with a built in snare proc instant casts and increased damage on other skills.
  

 

To name a few.

 

Now this is the part where you will tell me the following:

 

• We wear light armour (that's the crucial one - seeing as the difference in mitigation between non tank heavy and light is so large)
  

• We're susceptible to interupts,
  
• We have no burst (even though your burst isn't really that bad at all),
  
• and finally l2p.
  

 

To summarise the best healing class, the class with the most utility, arguably one of, it not the best all round dps classes in the game and the most easily the most populated

 

Sound about right?

 

We do not have two stuns.

 

We do not have a root, it's a talent tied into our knockback.

 

yes we can proc instant casts, but that's when we're standing still. That "spammable ability with a snare" requires us to be standing still. it also ticks for like 400-500 on an actual geared target. sounds like a whole lot of QQ without a whole lot of know. =/

 

Aside from shield and our actual CC abilities we do not have a single defensive cooldown as a DPS Spec. Yep. That's right, I said it. Not our stun, or our knockback, or anything. We do not have an "oh ****" bubble - we don't have a reduce damage by 20%, or a take 99% less damage, or a shield that heals us, or anything. if we lose momentum our momentum is gone - we have to heal. as DPS spec you can interrupt our heals all day, if you're letting us get off multiple casts you're playing it wrong.

 

every class I see QQ about Sorcs brings up all these things that other classes actually have - they never bring up that we do not have a real defensive cooldown in the slightest. We have an actively used shield that we must maintain, and we have heals to maintain our health pools. Don't forget that shield requires a global cooldown (obv most abilities do, but you aren't losing GCDs by mitigating with passive mitigation like most classes. given our mitigation is active, that's a GCD spent everytime we want to mitigate damage to our fullest.) But if you bust us up quick and keep the pressure on we have nothing to make you not continue putting pressure on us. Yeah, we have force sprint, but that's a 30s CD and its not like other classes dont have 12s charges or a possible grapple...oh wait. They do.

 

if you ever notice once youre pushing a Sorc into the floor hes pretty much done. people only see lightning spam and dont stop to think of what we're actually missing, or play the class and see what its missing. I think our damage and CC is fine given we can't actually mitigate ****. We have no passive mitigation outside of our light armor, expertise, and a potential 2% talent...and we have no activated mitigation of damage reduction. stop qqing.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Kiyoma

[Morticoccus]

If you can't kill a sorc, you're doing something wrong.

 

I can easily kill one sorcerer, I can't kill two sorcerers targeting me from across the map and snaring me for ages while their buddies can run over and focus me.

 

In fact, until level 30 all I can do in a situation like that is pop transcendence and run behind a box, oh, that is "if I also have 30 stacks of centering"

 

At level 30 I get force camo at least, which allows me to escape focusing by ranged classes easily.

 

But since Mass Effect 3 came in the mail yesterday I havn't been levelling much...

[da_krall]

It's been mathematically proven that light armor + bubble > Heavy armor.

 

Yeah but is light armour + defensive CD better than medium or heave + defensive CD....no so dont be stupid.

[Sosajoshua]

So Kiyoma for president? Since like others he has effectivitely shut all the whiners up and they will probably start complaining again in 2 days

[da_krall]

I can easily kill one sorcerer, I can't kill two sorcerers targeting me from across the map and snaring me for ages while their buddies can run over and focus me.

 

OMG you cant 1v2 people!!!! call the nerf police - we need all classes nerfing until they can be 1v2ed by the poster.

[Sosajoshua]

I lding a thread where someone complains that they think marauders suck and someone just says "at least we dont have 1 spammable ability by pressing 1......."

[Morticoccus]

OMG you cant 1v2 people!!!! call the nerf police - we need all classes nerfing until they can be 1v2ed by the poster.

 

You're not reading me right, I'm not complaining that i can't 1v2 them, I'm complaining because to all classes except for shadows and ops sorcerers can ignore their so often quoted weakness of having to stand still to channel because they simply don't have to move.

 

They can just stand somewhere safe and slow you down while painting a giant bullseye on your *** for their team to hit.

 

I would even go as far as saying that the empire has a psychological advantage here, because the force lightning animation is easily seen while the TkT animation is not.

[Kiyoma]

I can easily kill one sorcerer, I can't kill two sorcerers targeting me from across the map and snaring me for ages while their buddies can run over and focus me.

 

In fact, until level 30 all I can do in a situation like that is pop transcendence and run behind a box, oh, that is "if I also have 30 stacks of centering"

 

At level 30 I get force camo at least, which allows me to escape focusing by ranged classes easily.

 

But since Mass Effect 3 came in the mail yesterday I havn't been levelling much...

 

 

the same exact thing can be said for a Sorcerer. That same sorc nuking you with his buddy, if two ops pop on him he's probably going to drop unless he gets peels from his teammate. You're throwing in team members in the equation.

 

Sorcs are OP'd in huttball. Wait till we have a tight nowhere to kite warzone or area in a warzone, Sorcs will be really shafted in that situation.

[Kiyoma]

You're not reading me right, I'm not complaining that i can't 1v2 them, I'm complaining because to all classes except for shadows and ops sorcerers can ignore their so often quoted weakness of having to stand still to channel because they simply don't have to move.

 

They can just stand somewhere safe and slow you down while painting a giant bullseye on your *** for their team to hit.

 

I would even go as far as saying that the empire has a psychological advantage here, because the force lightning animation is easily seen while the TkT animation is not.

 

I don't understand that statement. "They simply don't have to move"

 

if they aren't moving you're on them, right? so you're complaining a ranged dps is..standing still with no one interupting him and hes doing a lot of damage?

 

/confused

[Dudious]

I would even go as far as saying that the empire has a psychological advantage here, because the force lightning animation is easily seen while the TkT animation is not.

 

I'm gonna disagree and say it's actually a disadvantage.

 

It's no secret that people like targeting Sage/Sorc. TKT throw animation is relatively subtle, on the other hand, Lightning is... well... lightning. People see purple shooting across the map "Aww cool a Sorc! Time to pop my adrenal/relic/WZ buff and go for my 5k crit!"

 

I don't play a DPS Sorc - healer instead - so I'm not always shooting lightning, but when I do it's usually at a low health opponent or an opposing healer. I have yet to see people follow my lightning and attack the healer who is apparently invisible to everyone except for me.

[navido]

We do not have two stuns.

 

I think he meant stun and mez though I could be wrong

 

We do not have a root, it's a talent tied into our knockback.

 

If you are talking DPS Sage/Sorc they all pick up the root, just because it's a talent doesn't mean you don't have it.

 

yes we can proc instant casts, but that's when we're standing still. That "spammable ability with a snare" requires us to be standing still. it also ticks for like 400-500 on an actual geared target. sounds like a whole lot of QQ without a whole lot of know. =/

 

True you do have to stand still, however in the hybrid build it has no CD so hitting someone, stopping casting to move and starting again isn't a penalty it's a playstyle. You still have project, a dot, and with those TK throw ticks comes the chance of PoM which tosses out instant cast Mind Crush and other abilities and you still have Force in Balance. Is your best DPS sitting there turreting? Yes. Can you be mobile and still be effective for **short** periods of time? Yes

 

Aside from shield and our actual CC abilities we do not have a single defensive cooldown as a DPS Spec. Yep. That's right, I said it. Not our stun, or our knockback, or anything. We do not have an "oh ****" bubble - we don't have a reduce damage by 20%, or a take 99% less damage, or a shield that heals us, or anything. if we lose momentum our momentum is gone - we have to heal. as DPS spec you can interrupt our heals all day, if you're letting us get off multiple casts you're playing it wrong.

 

This is all true, however with an AoE knockback that roots, a shield that mez's, and a sprint it's not THAT hard to get LoS'd to get a couple heals off

 

every class I see QQ about Sorcs brings up all these things that other classes actually have - they never bring up that we do not have a real defensive cooldown in the slightest. We have an actively used shield that we must maintain, and we have heals to maintain our health pools. Don't forget that shield requires a global cooldown (obv most abilities do, but you aren't losing GCDs by mitigating with passive mitigation like most classes. given our mitigation is active, that's a GCD spent everytime we want to mitigate damage to our fullest.) But if you bust us up quick and keep the pressure on we have nothing to make you not continue putting pressure on us. Yeah, we have force sprint, but that's a 30s CD and its not like other classes dont have 12s charges or a possible grapple...oh wait. They do.

 

if you ever notice once youre pushing a Sorc into the floor hes pretty much done. people only see lightning spam and dont stop to think of what we're actually missing, or play the class and see what its missing. I think our damage and CC is fine given we can't actually mitigate ****. We have no passive mitigation outside of our light armor, expertise, and a potential 2% talent...and we have no activated mitigation of damage reduction. stop qqing.

 

I actually don't disagree with you completely. My point through this entire thread has been the difference in toolkits for healers between Sage, Scoundrel, and Commando. The DPS spec while I'm surprised they haven't broken up the hybrid (They did it to shadows) I don't think it's THAT insane. It does put up insane numbers though...but that's more through quake and TK wave procs into big groups.

 

I do have to disagree with the "no defensive CD's" argument at least from a Scoundrel's point of view I'd trade my 1 min CD 3 sec duration dodge of "white" damage and my 45 sec CD 2.5k absorb "shield" for bubble (17 sec with 2 piece) sprint (30 secs as healer) and AoE knockback (20 secs) anyday.

 

The Seer tree and the fact that you don't honestly have to put more than 2 points into the tree to be "useful" as a healer and only really need 16 to be highly effective is my issue. I play with a Seer/Balance hybrid that in Cent gear can do close to 300k/300k and while I understand that isn't the norm I know on my lowbie 38 Sage I've had 260k/200k games.

 

Using the "If we get focused" argument isn't really as that great as all healers and to be honest ranged turret classes (Slinger, Grav hero) suffer from these same issues (some might even say more)

Edited March 9, 2012 by navido

[gryhmr]

Honestly playing WZ after WZ with 4+ sorcerers in it is making me rapidly sick of this game. They have way too much capability in their hybrid spec. Why is it Shadow hybrid was dealt with but a class that has all the cc, roots, mobility, consistent damage, mitigation (bubble), and HEALING is untouched? Edited March 9, 2012 by gryhmr

[Kiyoma]

I actually don't disagree with you completely. My point through this entire thread has been the difference in toolkits for healers between Sage, Scoundrel, and Commando. The DPS spec while I'm surprised they haven't broken up the hybrid (They did it to shadows) I don't think it's THAT insane. It does put up insane numbers though...but that's more through quake and TK wave procs into big groups.

 

I do have to disagree with the "no defensive CD's" argument at least from a Scoundrel's point of view I'd trade my 1 min CD 3 sec duration dodge of "white" damage and my 45 sec CD 2.5k absorb "shield" for bubble (17 sec with 2 piece) sprint (30 secs as healer) and AoE knockback (20 secs) anyday.

 

The Seer tree and the fact that you don't honestly have to put more than 2 points into the tree to be "useful" as a healer and only really need 16 to be highly effective is my issue. I play with a Seer/Balance hybrid that in Cent gear can do close to 300k/300k and while I understand that isn't the norm I know on my lowbie 38 Sage I've had 260k/200k games.

 

Using the "If we get focused" argument isn't really as that great as all healers and to be honest ranged turret classes (Slinger, Grav hero) suffer from these same issues (some might even say more)

 

I stopped after you said they all get the root. That simply isn't true given it's a 3rd tier talent in Lightning.

[navido]

I stopped after you said they all get the root. That simply isn't true given it's a 3rd tier talent in Lightning.

 

Let me try again as reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit. If IF we are talking about DPS Sage/Sorc ( which is what you were arguing isn't OP) we can assume they are hybrid spec'd as the top tiers and 31 points talents in BOTH trees leave much to be desired.

 

Now if we assume they are decent at PvP we can assume they know a good talent when they see one, as such they will spend 7 points in lightning/TK to grab the 9% reduction to force cost talent (3 points) 100 more force (2 points) and 20% better shields (2 points) so now all our friendly Sage/Sorc has to do is spend 5 more points to have a root. Please explain to me how ANY hybrid DPS Sage/Sorc won't spend 5 points (3 of which are very helpful to DPS) to have a 100% AoE root?

 

So really you are being petty and instead of having a thought out discussion you tried to bow out with a snarky remark that holds no weight or baring.

 

Saying Sage/Sorc doesn't pick up the root as DPS when they already spend 7 points in the tree because they'd have to spend FIVE MORE...is a ridiculous excuse. That's like saying healing Sage/Sorc's don't all have a 2 sec CD on Force Armor because it's a tier 3 talent. Just because you have to spend points to get it doesn't mean you don't have it.

 

Also most people here that are saying "Sage/Sorc" are OP would love to have the CHANCE to spec into half the stuff your class gets much less be given the rest.

Edited March 10, 2012 by navido

[lJustAlexl]

Let me try again as reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit.

 

You're insulting him because he didn't feel like relying on assumptions or reading your mind since you didn't specify that it refers to only one build?

 

Laughable.