Sadix Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Clickers are awfully defensive. Many of us aren't saying you can't be good at clicking. We're saying that keybinding is faster and more efficient. Take 2 people of equal skill and equal gear and one is a clicker and one is a keybinder. I don't think I need to say which one would win in a fight (hint: keybinder). You're prolly going to get flamed for saying that, but its obviously true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I use a mouse that has 11 keybinds which I expand to 22 when I use shift. I use the keyboard to navigate but I do not click on my skills . Where do I fall ,I don't actually use the mouse to navigate except when I am not fighting then I use it to move around. So am I not effective in PvP too ? There's a small difference in reaction time between a keybinder who turns with keyboard and one who turns with mouse. But there's a much bigger difference between either of those two vs. a full on clicker. When I went from full clicking to keybind/keyboard turn I noticed a huge difference in my performance but when I went from keybind/keyboard turn to keybind/mouse turn the difference was marginal at best. These just aren't compareable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Clickers are awfully defensive. Many of us aren't saying you can't be good at clicking. We're saying that keybinding is faster and more efficient. Take 2 people of equal skill and equal gear and one is a clicker and one is a keybinder. I don't think I need to say which one would win in a fight (hint: keybinder). I have found the opposite is true, the Clickers ( I don’t happen to be one ) aren’t insisting their way is best for everyone. It is the keybinders that seem terribly insecure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I'm about equal of both when I DPS, maybe a little more keybind when ranged. I am less keybound when I tank and almost completely keybound when I heal. Here's my layout in the new 1.2 UI. Notice how I have both primary and secondary abilities dead center, with instant "oh hell button" stuff (MedPacs, relics, & CDs) on the right, with buffs and "other" stuff on the left. My high level toons have nothing but combat and recovery abilities on the bars that replace the other stuff. They are all keybound but if I need to move a lot in a fight this is the click setup I will use. http://www.galactickegger.com/SWTOR/Screenshot_2012-03-18_13_10_50_609375.jpg Can't wait for the patch so I can port this setup to my tanks and healers. Having companion abilities break out to it's own bar leaves 4 bars for keybinding and clicking ... which I find is plenty because I don't have anything but combat stuff on the bars with my high level toons. Edited March 19, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I have found the opposite is true, the Clickers ( I don’t happen to be one ) aren’t insisting their way is best for everyone. No, but they are insisting both playstyles are equal. Personally I don't care if someone drives their car with their buttcheeks and is/isn't good while doing it but don't come tell me it's equal to steering with hands with nothing but "it's my personal preference/all opinions are equal" to back up your argument. Stating a fact isn't bullying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediKalel Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 No, but they are insisting both playstyles are equal. Personally I don't care if someone drives their car with their buttcheeks and is/isn't good while doing it but don't come tell me it's equal to steering with hands with nothing but "it's my personal preference/all opinions are equal" to back up your argument. Stating a fact isn't bullying. You still havent provided any evidence to back up anything you are saying other than 'I say so because of human anatomy and we dont need to test it":rolleyes: Can an equally skilled clicker beat an equally skilled keybinder? Does anyone actually care? If someone says you win will you shut up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esproc Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I saw 2 old men clicking over 2 young men who used "modern methods", guess who won? Right you are, the Old Men won, hands down. I no longer have the link, but now I am going to try to re-find it for some awesome proof, not conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursy Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Unless you are actually in face to face combat against someone moving with the mouse moving with keys works quite well. Saying you should only mouse move all time is silly. Saying you should never click is silly as well. You do what you need to when you need to. Please. Edited March 19, 2012 by Mursy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) You still havent provided any evidence to back up anything you are saying other than 'I say so because of human anatomy and we dont need to test it":rolleyes: Human anatomy is evidence you stubborn nerfherder. Everyone knows how it works. How can you argue against it? 5 fingers vs. 1 mouse cursor. Where's the controversy here? Hell forget anatomy, how about math? Do I need more arguments to back this up?... Even though I have given more, such as the fact that the vast vast vast majority of players in gaming tournaments keybind. You telling me this is just a wild coincidence with no relevance? Or where's that other guy who simply dismissed this inconvinient truth by saying "well we clickers just don't care for competitive play"? I hope you don't go down that road in your next argument. Edited March 19, 2012 by byteresistor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNxAres Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 I saw 2 old men clicking over 2 young men who used "modern methods", guess who won? Right you are, the Old Men won, hands down. I no longer have the link, but now I am going to try to re-find it for some awesome proof, not conjecture. lol I hope you're joking. 2 old men clicking? 2 old men whose reaction time has slipped considerably compared to 2 young men? And how is keybinding a "modern method"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esproc Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) lol I hope you're joking. 2 old men clicking? 2 old men whose reaction time has slipped considerably compared to 2 young men? And how is keybinding a "modern method"? I promise you, I am not joking. I was astounded myself. Well, compared to the 2 Old Men, chipped Ice was probably a concept for them growing up. Edited March 19, 2012 by Esproc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNxAres Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 I promise you, I am not joking. I was astounded myself. Well, compared to the 2 Old Men, chipped Ice was probably a concept for them growing up. da ****? Fail troll is fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I promise you, I am not joking. I was astounded myself. Maybe the youngsters just really sucked bad? Not because they keybinded but they just sucked as players to begin with? Bringing exceptions to the table isn't a really convincing argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilim Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I do both I have 22 binds and a few clicky things which generally do not require the most frequent use like long cooldowns. Clicking is definitely a less efficient means of activating most abilities though. I wont get into detailed examples but those small fractions of seconds can matter more than clickers realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelousWang Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) For Healing/Tanking clickers are fine, because it's not about how fast you can get off abilities, it's about using them at the correct time/when needed for the current situation. Especially with the global cooldown, a Healer/Tank relies on far less abilities so if you group them close together the gobal cooldown is easily long enough to move to the next ability. As for DPS, yes if you want to be the best DD ever you need to keybind. You need to be getting as many attacks off ASAP. Me, I'm somewhat of half clicker/keybinder. I have all my major Tank/Healer abilities on keybinds, and I click the DD abilities (which I only really use during solo play or un-supported PVP situations). Edited March 19, 2012 by AngelousWang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggedOne Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 This reminds me of the age-old argument between keyboard and mouse control in Doom deathmatch. AAMOF, that may well be the origin of this long-running argument. My nephew discovered DOOM (he was about 24 and I was early 40s) and sent me a shareware copy of it shortly after it came out in 1993. I was blown away, and bought the full game ASAP. After we (the kids and I) played through the single-player, we discovered deathmatch, to this day one of the most entertaining and challenging things I have done on a PC. My nephew, who lived a couple of hours away, fancied himself quite the deadly deathmatcher. One weekend he came down, and we connected both PCs with a serial cable and settled down for a marathon weekend of deathmatching. Since I was a programmer by trade, I was quite used to using a mouse, and had been using it to play DOOM from the beginning. When my nephew, Mr. Bad***** Deathmatch King arrived, he made great fun of my mousing - he didn't even own one - and made lavish claims about how he would humiliate me with his keyboarding skills. After 75 matches (first to 20 kills, win by 2), he had won 2, with the other 73 going to me (to be honest, the two losses were around daybreak, when my 40+-year-old reflexes were pretty shot). Lol...my teenage daughter, who was quite good, even beat him 10 straight. Young Mr. Bad***** left in chagrin, swearing that he would buy a mouse, learn to use it, and come back and whip my butt. And, in complete honesty, he did just that. Once he became a mouser, he won about 2/3 of our deathmatches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterFeign Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I've been clicking mostly (there are maybe 1 or 2 moves I reserve for quick action keying) but I really want to try keybinding. As an assassin tank, I want to do better in pvp (the build I am using gives me a bit more of an edge dps wise). So I'm wondering if there are guides or websites out there that may even be catered to swtor to help with key bindings (or if someone here knows what to do best). To have an idea, I have a numpad (it's a laptop so it's to the right of me) as well as a mouse with 7 buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullex Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I can not believe this has gone on this long. Stupid arguments aside (playing with eyes closed and one hand etc....) there is no debating that key binding your skills is a much more efficient way of playing. You can try to put whatever spin on it that you want but that fact will not change. Am I saying that you "must" key bind your skills to play or even enjoy the game??? Certainly not. I would never tell someone how to play a game that "they" pay for. What I will say is this (once again).... To become the best that you can be in this game at least give key binding a try. Once you get past the learning curve you will wonder how you ever played without doing it. In pvp I dare you to play against me by clicking your skills... I double dog dare you lol. Look up Sennett on Darth Bandon server. Pvp is all I have done with this character and I will completely own you if you click. That is not bragging.... That is just a fact. No need. G13 is for noobs. You can get more keybinds on your normal keyboard. Hell I even have more keybinds on my razer naga mouse than he has on his G13+Mouse. Dumbest quote of the thread. I've got a G-13 and it is one of the most useful tools I have ever purchased for a computer hands down. My setup: http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/turnerfamily10/Other/DSC_0155.jpg Edited March 20, 2012 by Bullex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMornard Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Go to any MMO tournament No. I won't. I hate PVP and wish there was no such thing, and have never played PVP in SWTOR and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMornard Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 but they can't deny that the alternative is just a better system. I deny it. I don't care about efficiency and I don't want to bother taking the time to learn keybinding. The game works fine as is in PVE and I don't care about PVP. There, I've run rings round you logically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincaserus Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 If you want to be better than you are right now, keybind End of story, there is no argument and you are wrong otherwise. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMornard Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 To become the best that you can be in this game Okay, I'll try again. I DON'T CARE! I play this game because it's cheaper than Cable TV. If it becomes more effort than watching TV I won't play. "Best" at a stupid "pretend I'm a Jedi Knight" game is like being "best" at pushing applesauce into a doorbell --- nobody cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degarmo Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Okay, I'll try again. I DON'T CARE! I play this game because it's cheaper than Cable TV. If it becomes more effort than watching TV I won't play. "Best" at a stupid "pretend I'm a Jedi Knight" game is like being "best" at pushing applesauce into a doorbell --- nobody cares. Why did you put that idea into my head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I'm in you mouse. Clicking your buttons. Are you upset with me male sibling? Give me some macros. Edited March 20, 2012 by Kourage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberex Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Click click click! I play with my feet up on the desk while I watch TV, I LOL at the die hard efficency experts har har har. P.S I eat while I PVP too! Click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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