zappylol Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Personally, from playing sniper up to 50 (I just can't be bothered to play a borked class up to valor 60 though) I'd be happy with a pure 30-40% armor penetration OR 10-20% damage increase for the MM tree. Sniper, especially MM is centered around being a "Glass Cannon", sure utility would be nice, but sniper will never have as much utility as a merc or sorc, so being able to *actually* outdamage the other ranged dps classes would be nice. At the moment, MM doesnt have the dps, defenses, utility or mobility to be of *any* use in pvp beyond just filling a spot. Eng and lethality have less of a problem if played correctly because of the way their damage is applied and calculated, but MM is seriously borked in my opinion. Of course, if a straight damage boost is out of the question, more utility and peels would be a nice addition, but I'd just like to see THE glass cannon class actually do the damage to allow for the lack of defenses and mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikthebeast Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) ...so being able to *actually* outdamage the other ranged dps classes would be nice. We can, and we do. Well, some of us. Edited April 1, 2012 by nikthebeast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fal- Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Sniper is best glass, and with CC survivability is good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fal- Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 We can, and we do. Well, some of us. qfe son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougan Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Personally, from playing sniper up to 50 (I just can't be bothered to play a borked class up to valor 60 though) I'd be happy with a pure 30-40% armor penetration OR 10-20% damage increase for the MM tree. Sniper, especially MM is centered around being a "Glass Cannon", sure utility would be nice, but sniper will never have as much utility as a merc or sorc, so being able to *actually* outdamage the other ranged dps classes would be nice. At the moment, MM doesnt have the dps, defenses, utility or mobility to be of *any* use in pvp beyond just filling a spot. Eng and lethality have less of a problem if played correctly because of the way their damage is applied and calculated, but MM is seriously borked in my opinion. Of course, if a straight damage boost is out of the question, more utility and peels would be a nice addition, but I'd just like to see THE glass cannon class actually do the damage to allow for the lack of defenses and mobility. I tend to agree with you about the MM tree. It underperforms in PvP compared to other specs. The 31 pt. ability is nice DPS for PvE but is really underwhelming for PvP combat--the problem is how important it is in PvE. If they drop it for something that augments burst damage, the DPS of the tree would go down. I was a strong advocate of MM until I tried other specs and realized how truly underwhelming it is in all aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I tend to agree with you about the MM tree. It underperforms in PvP compared to other specs. The 31 pt. ability is nice DPS for PvE but is really underwhelming for PvP combat--the problem is how important it is in PvE. If they drop it for something that augments burst damage, the DPS of the tree would go down. I was a strong advocate of MM until I tried other specs and realized how truly underwhelming it is in all aspects. I doubt you tried All other specs very well. Only the last 2 tiers of MM are underwhelming and the ENG tree is in the exact same way. (from a PvP stand point) Everything up to "recoil control" in MM is very solid for pvp, which is only enhanced by the influx of marauders and sentinels. I run 23/18/0 and seldom see any other class achieve such spike damage. MM feats take sentinels out of the picture in a big way. Edited April 2, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikthebeast Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I know at least one sniper who would disagree with both of you(zappy and dougan). Granted he plays a MM hybrid, but still, it is still a MM based build. I have noticed a lot of snipers who underperform have very poor stat optimization. For example, alactrity is not a bad stat for a MM sniper in PvP. You shouldn't get overzealous with it though but this guy hurts to face. I also find the conventional* 95% accuracy, 40% crit, 75% surge to not be optimal. Currently my gear is a bit strange but that's only cause I don't want to mess up BM mods before 1.2(thus using modded champ pieces in place of 2 BM pieces). Currently, in the 2/18/21 spec, I have 96% acc, 36% crit, 73% surge and 445 power. Ideally, I would want to sacrifice more of my accuracy in favour of more power(so it is around 95 instead of 96.7% as it currently is). I used to follow the "collective internet wisdom" and I can without a shred of doubt this is big mistake. Found it to be much better to have decent accuracy and crit and focus on other soft stats. Most good snipers I meet tend to favour power(and in the case of the MM sniper mentioned alactrity) over crit and surge(though tend to still have it just above 70%). The point is, stacking soft stats is a terrible idea(except with power ofc). I encourage you to experiment with your gear. Believe me, I was quite suprised myself to seeing a sniper have more than a fair share of alactrity items, especially on one who's know for laying down the hurt. There is no "one size fits all" for us when to comes to stat weights. * Feel free to school me how I am completely wrong and how I need to be rank 9000 to have an opinion but all I can tell you is this my experience testing various modding as well as looking at what other top snipers are doing on my server. I can *almost* promise you will see big improvements before long if you're willing to to refit your gear and step outside your comfort zone. Edited April 2, 2012 by nikthebeast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougan Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I doubt you tried All other specs very well. Only the last 2 tiers of MM are underwhelming and the ENG tree is in the exact same way. Everything up to "recoil control" in MM is very solid for pvp, which is only enhanced by the influx of marauders and sentinels. I run 23/18/0 and seldom see any other class achieve such spike damage. MM feats take sentinels out of the picture in a big way. Until people proc your probes and kill your burst. And having a faster animation on Followthrough than GS has on Trickshot helps, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Until people proc your probes and kill your burst. And having a faster animation on Followthrough than GS has on Trickshot helps, too. When 1.2 hits, this change will be depressing for snipers, but I'm sure we will adapt as our gunslinger brethren have had to. Edited April 2, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narfirill Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 ok guys.... War hero level of PvP here so i think i can toss a dime here. flash bang and particularly the leg shot are awsome... under the conditions that no idiot in the team will brake the first with aoe and some other will assist you to get down the the ball carrier fast half a meter from the goal line. cc and routs wise we are good and tent to agree that we have us much as batman i would like the rout from the pulse to be unbreakable for its duration and to activate it outside cover to but thats the only prob in this area. damage wise we F!#$!$ suck. we need armor enetration and for MM maybe a smal bust on pure damage numbers... also cuts on raw damage would be welcomed IF and only IF the damage prodused would be tech and no white stuff... that would solve in a master move all our dps problems with bubles armor and shields. would be nice if the shield prob we got wasent so useless. that could help as survive and if they boost its mitigated damage. some guys cry for range at 40 meters... it would feel a bit more sniperish but would either unbalance the class or make others cry NERF! so all rifle base skills should have range our current maximum... curently the only problems i see is that we die horibly if we dont have the needed cooldowns. other classes do beter far beter in same position. the hole problem is that every penalty for mistake or lack of adaptability and skill (ability) to use is penalized with a maul when others have a slap on their hand... its a class that you must play it perfectly all the time every time or you die / have to depend to team mates to bale you out of tight spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostSentinal Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This spec into lethality Eng crap to do mobile aoe dmg dots debuffs etc is crap We Are Snipers we Scope We target We Hurt thats it. Snipers and Gunslingers are not toons to run in circles spaming ****s geez Thats a maur Sent op's game This isnt CallOfDuty Rambo Class We are Ranged Artillery that hits hard thats it. We should be running away from PvP in WZ and drill people with shots like the kite missles we should be. With so many Obstacles in WZ's and pvp areas our range is useless atm and with jedi/sith superman and grapple turning your back to steam rollers is really fun For Sniper and gunslinger to have apeal we need solo skills no class has Burst dps for what half health enemies ?? thats the only tatic we have atm We need a lethal kill shot or a slow that's not just for movement but debuff there skill casting rate that has a time limit that cant be removed A percentage lethal shot that say needs a active probe on enemy + you need to be like 10% health and you can shoot a instant kill at a distant range so we kill (healer tank) before we are steam rolled, of course with a large cooldown or something. We need A buff or debuff that can stack with other snipers and gunslingers which makes maximum range Shots do massive dmg call it sniper school nest or something. make it Hold us in cover for the time it lasts so enemies need to kill our fortress pilbox Yes ops and scoun dont share those skills or make it that they need to buff us with that skill like tank shields his side kicks. So operative and sniper agents hunt in sink and are a team. They buff our sniper buff and we buff them a speed scout buff etc We are ranged snipers we shoot dmg nothing else. Otherwise ops & Scoun can be sandpeople shoot and beat ppl with sticks (knifes kicks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostSentinal Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Even Better yet to change Sniper gunslinger from other shooter classes we need more range dmg So at maximum Range = more dmg Higher Ground = More Dmg when at full energy 1st shot does extra dmg Entrenched increases rifle range for the length of skill etc Our Run Toggle skills makes running backwards same speed as foward Cover Shield Turns black like a blast shield after a certain period If Atked by Range attaker we have a Mirage Skill that reomoves there target Alacrity Skill That gives full energy and casting speed but lose Defence etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleak Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I agree that snipers have a lot of problems in pvp at the moment. I have a lvl 50 sniper and 50 powertech both over valor rank 60. I leveled the sniper first which is a good thing b/c after I hit 50 on my powertech, I won't even pvp on my sniper anymore. PvPing on a sniper is so limited by LoS in warzones combined with fact that you have no mobility that it isn't fun to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi_overtake Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I agree that snipers have a lot of problems in pvp at the moment. I have a lvl 50 sniper and 50 powertech both over valor rank 60. I leveled the sniper first which is a good thing b/c after I hit 50 on my powertech, I won't even pvp on my sniper anymore. PvPing on a sniper is so limited by LoS in warzones combined with fact that you have no mobility that it isn't fun to me. Sounds like you need to give Lethality a try, or the new Engi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChozenOne Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Looks like nothing has changed... <3 Bioware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessik Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Looks like nothing has changed... <3 Bioware last post was almost a month ago... MM has had some boosts... welcome back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badsinn Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 last post was almost a month ago... MM has had some boosts... welcome back... He is right though. 50s PVP. Gear/Skill being equivalent, it is still anything you can do with a sniper you can do better with any other class for longer periods, with greater survivability and less headaches to pull it off. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzBlix Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I'm on a PvP server, most people that do WZ have relatively decent gear, I'm currently full BM (will get my WH sniper tonight). We're fine. I use a MM spec and I'm usually 1 or 2 in damage and 1 or 2 in killing blows. Unless I'm defending an objective, which we also do just fine. We have to press more than 3 buttons to perform. If you are in a match with several stealthers, and they are smart, you will be shut down. They will destroy you the whole match, because they know you will melt their face if they don't. Gear does not = skill. I have more than one 50 that PvP's. The class really performs just fine and serves it's purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe_ Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) He is right though. 50s PVP. Gear/Skill being equivalent, it is still anything you can do with a sniper you can do better with any other class for longer periods, with greater survivability and less headaches to pull it off. It is what it is. Yeah like a Merc? LOL. How bout a nerfed sorc? Better single target damage? Nope. If you truly believe what you said, that any other class can do it better than a sniper, you're just a 'failsnipe.' Re-roll. Maybe take this plane to get there. Edited May 2, 2012 by Poe_ url Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altruismo Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 If you are in a match with several stealthers, and they are smart, you will be shut down. They will destroy you the whole match, because they know you will melt their face if they don't. Heh, the stealthers do need to be good though. I played a NC match last night where I had three shadowtanks and a Smug glued to me for about 80% of the WZ. It's funny how easily your team caps when you're almost continuously kiting 4 members of the other team around the valley in the centre of the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nektulos Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 /signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Heh, the stealthers do need to be good though. I played a NC match last night where I had three shadowtanks and a Smug glued to me for about 80% of the WZ. It's funny how easily your team caps when you're almost continuously kiting 4 members of the other team around the valley in the centre of the map. So u kited 3 shadowtanks? Mother of kite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterFeign Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 It's always fun when opponents come back for more. Depending on what opener an assassin uses (if they were smart, they'd be using maul), I may or may not have my entrench out (upon detecting them). Regardless, once they're out of stealth, I can already start taking control of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahebish Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I'm going to try to keep this respectful. If you aren't 3 shotting your targets your playing gunslinger/sniper wrong. If you aren't knocking people back twice + rooting them + your slow you are doing it wrong. If you disregard the fact you recieved a damage increase. If you are ************ about melee and not doing any of the above. You are doing it wrong and indeed need to L2P. Thank you have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Bro, Tankassin laughts at your kite. 5 sec immunity to your stun, blind, pulse knockback, slow form both corrosive grenade and probe in additon to removing your roots with it, plus another root removal with force speed (which is a gap closer). And a force pull just to get you sit in your cover 100 % of time. Whacha gonna do? Knockback him with ambush? Deflected in ya face during 12 sec of deflection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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