Resolve issue and Tank Sin/Shad.

[Zekoisop]

So it seems when I fight a tank Sin/Shad I always have issues with resolve. First off I am a trooper so being heavy armor I expect our resolve not to be that great. Anyway here is what i noticed when I fight a tank Sin/Shad - they have the resolve advantages of squishies even though they are now tank specced - for some reason they retain the resolve mechanic of a Sorc basically.

 

What I mean is that as a trooper I can only do a couple CC abilities before my opponent's resolve bar is maxed - and this is fine to me since Vanguard/PTs are very powerful as it is, having some kind of limitation like that makes sense - we have good mitigation. Better resolve makes sense for a squishy since it is their basic survival tool. But when a Shad/Sin turns on Combat Technique they are just as durable as a trooper now yet retain the resolve advantages of a light/medium armor squishy. Is this intentional?

 

Seems everytime I fight a Sin/Shad ( tank) its always an interesting fight but they have about 4 CCs they can land on me ( the root doesn't even raise my resolve) while I have like two I can use on them. I see some imbalance here. I'm not whining OP but is the resolve mechanic working as intended for a TANK form sin/shad? If it is I'm rollin that alt for PvP because CC ownz , especially CC AND MITIGATION .

 

TL;DR version = Sin/Shad Tanks generate as much resolve as a squishy still even though they have the same mitigation ( in tank form) as a Vanguard/PT. Working as intended or?

[aZShiftyZa]

Sins don't have a root...there's a slow but not a root, troll elsewhere.

[Haldern]

Sins don't have a root...there's a slow but not a root, troll elsewhere.

 

Wrong. It's the Madness 31 pointer, and the OP is right in that it doesn't respect resolve.

 

To the OP:

If you're fighting a Sith Assasin with a root he is not a tank, rather he is "Madness" a melee/ranged hybrid.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Haldern

[Zekoisop]

Alright but can someone address my point. Tank Sin/Shad CC doesn't seem to generate as much resolve as Troopers/BHs yet they have similar ( in some cases better) mitigation. Is this what was intended or?

 

Btw , Can't you still spec into madness ( balance) , take 10 into Kinetic Combat an still turn on Combat Technique? Is this a popular build? Also the root isn't a huge issue , its not like it cripples me. As a VG I can still do damage rooted. My main point was addressing the amount of resolve generated by a Tank Sin/Shad in comparison to other tanks.

[Zekoisop]

Sins don't have a root...there's a slow but not a root, troll elsewhere.

 

Totally missed the point didn't ya? This is no nerf call , I actually like the Sin/Shadow class a lot the more I see them play. They , in tank form , are very very good.

[Trebarian]

<snip> But when a Shad/Sin turns on Combat Technique they are just as durable as a trooper now yet retain the resolve advantages of a light/medium armor squishy. Is this intentional?

 

TL;DR version = Sin/Shad Tanks generate as much resolve as a squishy still even though they have the same mitigation (in tank form) as a Vanguard/PT. Working as intended or?<snip>

 

Not quite as durable as a Trooper by any means, who is gaining a higher defensibility through armor rating in and of itself. You also need to consider that most Shad/Sin in Combat Technique are not using a shield generator in PvP, thus losing one primary form of defense through Shield/Absorb (and even if they do, the consensus is that it provides little advantage in PvP anyway). Overall durability is far more comparable to that of Guardian/Jugg. Mitigations between the classes can't be considered "the same" either. Some, such as Internal and Elemental damage mitigation are higher on Shad/Sin, while others are not. Bottom line is that a tank speced Shad/Sin in Combat Technique is going to be squishier than a Vanguard/Merc in most situations.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Trebarian

[MonsAlpha]

Sins don't have a root...there's a slow but not a root, troll elsewhere.

 

Wrong, there is a 2 second root for the shadow and assassin in the shared tree. It's the top tier ability, sever force for shadows and creeping darkness for assassins. 2 second root that is a DoT of internal damage. Schooled son.

[SinnedWill]

No idea what you're referring to when you say that resolve mechanics for squishies and tanks are different and if they are, I'd like a source to this information, but from my experience:

 

I have a Sorc, Marauder, Assassin, Sniper and Powertech - they all seem to gain the same amount of resolve from the same skills that generate resolve. For instance: regardless of what class you are, if my Sorcerer uses electrocute (stun) and I happen to use Overload (the aoe knockback) that person is going to be at max resolve (despite the fact that my knockback doesn't even have the root).

 

I've also noticed that it tends to take 3 or 4 chained stuns (basic stuns only - again, if I'm hit by the AoE knockback from an inquis while I'm stunned, I will always have full resolve) just to fill any of my characters' resolve to max.

 

Your issue with Assassins is likely due to the knockdowns - which, strangely, don't seem to generate anywhere near as much resolve as stuns do despite the fact that knockdowns are far worse than stuns. Assassins can have a 2 second knockdown and a 4 second knockdown (if they're deception specced) and a clever player can utilize knockdowns effectively without letting their target get full resolve until the very end of their cycle for the same reason that Operatives/Scoundrels can do the same with their knockdowns/stuns if they know how to use their skills effectively (and I'm pretty sure one of the operative's either knockdown or stun generates NO resolve at all).

 

Being that my sorcerer is my main character, I play it the most and I usually sport pretty good survivability for a squishy, and I too have noticed that very good Assassins/Shadows/Operatives/Scoundrels who know how best to avoid giving their target a full resolve bar early on can typically use 2 knockdowns and 2 stuns on me before I'm at full resolve (unfortunately, being as squishy as Sorcerer is, even with a fresh static barrier, this usually results in me dying or running away and hoping to get a heal off before a DoT finishes me).

 

Fortunately, the really good Ops/Scounds/Sins/Shads that know what to do to avoid generating a full resolve bar are few and far between or mayhem in a WZ might cause one of their teammates to use something on you which will get your resolve to max much earlier than they wanted, so you're only going to have serious issues with things like that if they get you 1v1 and you happen to have very little or no resolve currently generated.

Edited March 7, 2012 by SinnedWill

[upzie]

Wrong, there is a 2 second root for the shadow and assassin in the shared tree. It's the top tier ability, sever force for shadows and creeping darkness for assassins. 2 second root that is a DoT of internal damage. Schooled son.

 

Irrelevant, since op is talking about TANKS, show me a sin/shadow tank with roots.

 

This thread is fueled by ignorance, but I do agree those 31/31/31 speccs are quite powerfull.

Edited March 7, 2012 by upzie

[SinnedWill]

Irrelevant, since op is talking about TANKS, show me a sin/shadow tank with roots.

 

This thread is fueled by ignorance, but I do agree those 31/31/31 speccs are quite powerfull.

 

Even a madness specced Assassin can still use Dark Charge as a stance; although it reduces a good bit of their potential dps.

[Haldern]

Yes but the quote (which isn't from the OP) is from a guy talking about "sins". Last time I checked sins meant all Assassins.

[wtfnonamefree]

OP's random use of the term 'resolve' makes me dizzy.

[upzie]

Even a madness specced Assassin can still use Dark Charge as a stance; although it reduces a good bit of their potential dps.

 

Using Darkcharge doesnt make you a tank. And as you mentioned yourself w/o Lightning Charge as madness your dmg is sad at very best, not to mention that Madness specc is terrible in 1v1 scenarios.

 

 

Yes but the quote (which isn't from the OP) is from a guy talking about "sins". Last time I checked sins meant all Assassins.

 

Try and read what I wrote once more, the topic is about tanks, so anything outside that, such as madness roots 31 pts talent, is completely irrelevant for this thread.

[SinnedWill]

I don't think the OP fully understands resolve (as in what skills generate resolve, what skills ignore it, and exactly how vast in magnitude the difference between resolve generating effects can be) and what many people consider "CC". I think this might be why he believes that resolve fills up more slowly for different classes (but perhaps I'm the naiive one that despite playing as 3x "squishies" and 1x tank -by his definitition, and not talking about my sin- that resolve fills identically based on my experience - I'd gladly apologise if there is confirmed proof that resolve fills more slowly for heavier armored classes, but I've never noticed a difference among my characters and I pvp A LOT).

[aZShiftyZa]

Wrong, there is a 2 second root for the shadow and assassin in the shared tree. It's the top tier ability, sever force for shadows and creeping darkness for assassins. 2 second root that is a DoT of internal damage. Schooled son.

 

When the OP referred to TANK sins...there is no root, it requires 31 points in madness in which case you are a madness assassin not a tank...schooled son?

 

I haven't really noticed much of a difference any class gives more resolve than the other. Longer stuns = more resolve. Tank sins can pull, then spike, then electrocute but if pulled then electrocuted resolve is full, it's about timing your cc properly to get the most out of it.

[SinnedWill]

Using Darkcharge doesnt make you a tank. And as you mentioned yourself w/o Lightning Charge as madness your dmg is sad at very best, not to mention that Madness specc is terrible in 1v1 scenarios.

 

Considering that I believe he was referring to armor rating and not the bonuses in darkness tree that give bonuses to defense chance, shield chance, and absorbtion, I'm under the impression that he's using damage mitigation being based upon armor rating alone (which is why he's stipulating that " Tank Sins should have their resolve fill just as slowly as Heavy Armor wearers"). Also, if you think a madness sin can't 1v1 like a champ, I don't think you've ever encountered one with a good build. Hybrid madness sins and the jedi's shadow equivalent can drop most squishies faster than any other class I've seen.

[SinnedWill]

I haven't really noticed much of a difference any class gives more resolve than the other. Longer stuns = more resolve. Tank sins can pull, then spike, then electrocute but if pulled then electrocuted resolve is full, it's about timing your cc properly to get the most out of it.

 

^^ Thank you for agreeing that rotation and timing to maximize your output before completely filling the target's resolve bar is crucial, and likely the reason the OP began this thread, but can you confirm ANY difference between Light/Medium/Heavy Armor wearers generating different values of resolve from specific skills? I, personally, haven't noticed any difference among my toons.

[Chaosmagistrate]

Operatives/Scoundrels can do the same with their knockdowns/stuns if they know how to use their skills effectively (and I'm pretty sure one of the operative's either knockdown or stun generates NO resolve at all).

 

This statement alone shows how much misinformation is spread around and the proprogated due to people being too lazy to either ask someone about the abilities, torhead it, or duel someone.

 

Ops opener stun gives resolve, 4s deb gives resolve, flashbang mez gives resolve, and sap gives resolve.

 

To the ACTUAL topic at hand. Different CCs in this game give different amounts of resolve. A good rule of thumb, but not all encompassing, is that the longer the stun/mez lasts, the more resolve it gives.

 

Good players tend to wait for resolve to drain a bit before applying another stun, thus you get the feeling that you have been "stunned" too much.

[ShaggNasty]

Alright but can someone address my point. Tank Sin/Shad CC doesn't seem to generate as much resolve as Troopers/BHs yet they have similar ( in some cases better) mitigation. Is this what was intended or?

 

Btw , Can't you still spec into madness ( balance) , take 10 into Kinetic Combat an still turn on Combat Technique? Is this a popular build? Also the root isn't a huge issue , its not like it cripples me. As a VG I can still do damage rooted. My main point was addressing the amount of resolve generated by a Tank Sin/Shad in comparison to other tanks.

 

EVERY STUN IN THE GAME RESULTS IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF RESOLVE

2 stuns and you're bar is full.

 

Snares (even 100%) DO NOT EFFECT RESOLVE

 

LEARN TO PLAY

[MigSebes]

So it seems when I fight a tank Sin/Shad I always have issues with resolve. First off I am a trooper so being heavy armor I expect our resolve not to be that great. Anyway here is what i noticed when I fight a tank Sin/Shad - they have the resolve advantages of squishies even though they are now tank specced - for some reason they retain the resolve mechanic of a Sorc basically.

 

What I mean is that as a trooper I can only do a couple CC abilities before my opponent's resolve bar is maxed - and this is fine to me since Vanguard/PTs are very powerful as it is, having some kind of limitation like that makes sense - we have good mitigation. Better resolve makes sense for a squishy since it is their basic survival tool. But when a Shad/Sin turns on Combat Technique they are just as durable as a trooper now yet retain the resolve advantages of a light/medium armor squishy. Is this intentional?

 

Seems everytime I fight a Sin/Shad ( tank) its always an interesting fight but they have about 4 CCs they can land on me ( the root doesn't even raise my resolve) while I have like two I can use on them. I see some imbalance here. I'm not whining OP but is the resolve mechanic working as intended for a TANK form sin/shad? If it is I'm rollin that alt for PvP because CC ownz , especially CC AND MITIGATION .

 

TL;DR version = Sin/Shad Tanks generate as much resolve as a squishy still even though they have the same mitigation ( in tank form) as a Vanguard/PT. Working as intended or?

 

Resolve works the same way on all ACs...

[Zekoisop]

Thanks for the useful info guys. Sad thing is that some people here take things way to personally as if I am making QQ attack on their beloved class. lol.

 

I didn't make any claims of fact just what I have observed and what seems to be the case which is why I asked for some input . I wasn't trying to ponificate a point.

 

My observation has been the following :

 

A : My CC moves , the couple I do have, generate a lot of resolve. Fine , no big deal.

 

B : The CC that a Sin/Shad have have a couple more than me and I find my resolve bar slow to rise.

 

The results appears that I have less resolve myself while generating a lot of resolve for my enemy.

 

These have been mostly 1v1 fights as well. I actually do well against Sins/Shadows but I find them annoyingly difficult to take down , particularly when they are in tank form. I also find myself the recipiant of the most CC 'chains' than any other class I face.

 

As far as armor rating I do know that combat technique gives enough of an armor bonus to make a tank shad/sin basically a heavy armor class. The armor bonus is more than that of Soresu or Ion Cell. But it evens out so I have no issue with that , a tank is supposed to be durable.

[yukirshiro]

Everyone has the same amount of resolve.

 

Your CC generates more resolve than their CC does and they are stringing it together better than you do apparently.

 

Don't chain CC in 1v1 and you don't run into resolve problems. After you stun someone, let them stay un-CCed for 2-4 seconds before putting on your next CC and you'll never max their resolve.

[aZShiftyZa]

In 1v1s things get hectic. Pay attention to the timing. If you're fighting a true Tank (darkness assassin)

 

From what I've seen the stun duration directly relates to the amount of resolve you get. Spike...2 seconds little resolve. Electrocute 4 second stun, will probably fill up half your resolve. If they use whirlwind 8 second incapacitation you are a stun or overload away from being full resolve. It comes down to duration and use of it. If a player is smart and knows how resolve works, they'll use the small stuns first before the long, you never want to give someone full resolve unless you have to. I still think snares need to be added to resolve personally but I'm melee, of course I feel that way.

 

If both of your stuns = 10 seconds worth of stuns then you'll fill resolve. Anything you do that renders a player out of control of their character fills resolve, even a techs charge punch b/c of the knockback.