PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[Aardevark]

8 people go into an op's kill all boss's and 2 remain and 6 die on the final boss. Op's cleared what you need combat logs for?

 

To say to those 6 *** was you doing getting killed by(insert anything here).

 

No thank's

[ferroz]

It is funny in early eq where you basically had to group all the time there was never a problem determining who was holding groups back. Plus you had a much more social environment where people work together.

Actually, it was common for people to use totally subjective measures at that point, that were often inaccurate.

[homeyp]

<_< >_> O_O *whispers* people who don't suck wouldn't be scared of the implementation full combat meters *whispers*

 

You guys hear something?

[Caladax]

<_< >_> O_O *whispers* people who don't suck wouldn't be scared of the implementation full combat meters *whispers*

 

You guys hear something?

 

I sucked big time on my mage. The combat logs motivated me to read guides and change gear around to be better.

[ferroz]

8 people go into an op's kill all boss's and 2 remain and 6 die on the final boss. Op's cleared what you need combat logs for?

That's not the situation that most people who want it are talking about. They're talking about 8 people go into an op, don't kill all boss's. Op is not cleared. not sure why they aren't succeeding.

 

seems pretty obvious what they think they need combat logs for, eh?

 

 

 

The people who are actually asking for it in the situation your talking about are looking for an extra type of competition to keep the game interesting (to them). If you don't feel that way, you probably should never play with those type of people, so it doesn't really matter what they use the meters for.

Edited March 6, 2012 by ferroz

[Blotter]

<_< >_> O_O *whispers* people who don't suck wouldn't be screaming that full combat meters are absolute necessities for clearing content *whispers*

 

You guys hear something?

 

FIFY

[ProphetX]

Thanks for once again proving my point about yourself and the problem with Meters!

 

 

 

And yet there are Tanks in WoW doing random Heroics with people in 346 gear and ************ about DPS. On entry-level Heroics. Where every mob is dying and nobody in the party is.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, you sound real "helpful" there

 

Guilds will be able to help their members with Personal Logs and Parsers.

 

And on smooth PUG FP runs, you'll never know if or who you are "carrying" or not, and it in fact shouldn't matter.

 

So they didn't have to add a bag to get tanks and healers to que for heroics ? It doesn't exist ? Tanks are just willingly logging on out of the goodness of there heart and running low lvl heroics for justice points ? Maybe for a guildy but not to help random joe .

 

As for your second comment , I was well known on my server and helped more than my fair share of people improve there Warlocks spec / dps ( Played one for 3 years before I took up healing ) . When you have recount you can tell alot more than just how much Dps they are doing and what they can change in there rotation to improve it . But you hate min/maxers which you have made painfully obvious . They also tell you a plethora of information other than how much dps you can do which is what I'm more interested in anyway .

 

Does this game need it ? NO its ridiculously easy . Would I like to have it ? Yes its a great quality of life issue .

[ferroz]

So they didn't have to add a bag to get tanks and healers to que for heroics ? It doesn't exist ? Tanks are just willingly logging on out of the goodness of there heart and running low lvl heroics for justice points ? Maybe for a guildy but not to help random joe .

No, they didn't. As a dps, queueing alone, I had fairly reasonable queue times before they added it.

 

They added it to make the queue times better by encouraging more tanks and healers to queue than they had at the time...

[ProphetX]

No, they didn't. As a dps, queueing alone, I had fairly reasonable queue times before they added it.

 

They added it to make the queue times better by encouraging more tanks and healers to queue than they had at the time...

 

45 minute plus dps ques before the addition 15 minutes afterwards enough said . Didn't matter to me either way I had insta ques as a healer .

[RickRedOne]

A combat log that only I can see and only has My info is great. I don't want other people seeing my info.

 

We don't need DPS meters, Threat meters and such. IF you like those please go play a game that has them, and stop trying to turn this game into every other game out there.

[RealAeiouy]

So if you met a merc that did nothing but spam tracer missile and was spec'ed all wrong in their trees(although you can't inspect that currently). You'd leave him be? And yes I do mean the word wrong.

 

Or a marauder who spec'ed half way up rage for the big hitting smash, which they wouldn't have force crush for. Then spec'ed the rest into anni for dot buffs. Which both trees are revolved around two completely different stances. You wouldn't try to help that person understand how they could improve?

 

Rephrase all you want. I'll even shorten it for you: "Here's a way to improve your dps."

Twisting words to sound negative is fun. Are you a lawyer?

 

This is the problem... You think there is only one way to play the game.

 

If you don't want to play with people like that then join a guild and play with them. Wishing to force your myopic view of gameplay and inability to socialize with others on pugs is not the way to go.

 

You know how you find out what others are doing and help them? You talk to them. This is what I mean when people use meters to replace having social skills. You talk to people in your group about what they are doing and share advice and tips.

[Viera]

POLL

 

I want to create this poll to try and get a sensus on combat logs and the importance of real logs along with DPS meters, threat meters and the like. Please keep this discussion civil. Below is what I wrote in the UI thread from the guild summit.

 

Understand, currently the new logs are only accessable outside of the game and only display information that has happened to you. (ie the "what happened to me" button in WoW's combat log). DO NOT VOTE if you do not understand combat logs, what kind of combat logs they are implementing (only self, a lot of people do not understand this as I have read from answers to other threads), or if you intend to troll.

 

NOTE:

 

Combat logs serve important for the future of DPS meters, threat meters and all around important additions that will help improve the overall performance of players, knowledge of players and most importantly CONTROL of your character.

 

Also understand that it will be MORE DIFFICULT for BioWare to implement TRULY difficult content with more engaging mechanics without the use of combat logs and logging for improvement.

 

Absolutely no, also, it is spelled census.

 

Also, you don't understand how polls work. You cannot be all "I WANT TO MAKE A POLL" and then be all "DO NOT VOTE IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH MY POINT OF VIEW".

[Aardevark]

That's not the situation that most people who want it are talking about. They're talking about 8 people go into an op, don't kill all boss's. Op is not cleared. not sure why they aren't succeeding.

 

seems pretty obvious what they think they need combat logs for, eh?

 

 

 

The people who are actually asking for it in the situation your talking about are looking for an extra type of competition to keep the game interesting (to them). If you don't feel that way, you probably should never play with those type of people, so it doesn't really matter what they use the meters for.

 

I have read nearly all this post and i am still not convinced about it.

 

As for your obvious reason why you need them is to say to someone man you sux that's the last time you come with us.And don't say they will not be used for that, you and I know they will.

[Derekloffin]

Hmm... personal logs I'm for. Group wide logs, I can see why those can be an issue. I think I'm going to at least wait and see how things develop here. I see little reason to add them other than convenience, and decent reason to exclude them, namely elitism being made that much easier. I think that's good enough reason to give Bioware's approach a try at the very least.

[glenbruton]

Just say no to threat meters! Way to suck the fun out of a game.

 

 

I play with spreadsheets all day long. I dont want to come home to one in SWTOR!

Edited March 6, 2012 by glenbruton

[homeyp]

FIFY

 

i see what you did tharrrrrr hardy har har.

[Viera]

8 People go into op.

 

They aren't succeeding

 

They want to know why.

 

They all have combat logs of themselves.

 

They all get together and do'asjdasd share their combat logs amongst eachother.

 

No one that doesn't want to be examined under a magnifying glass has to be, people that are in organized raids to care enough about their combat logs can easily just share their combat logs amongst their little raid team and figure it out.

 

Is THAT such a hard concept to understand?

Edited March 6, 2012 by Viera

[RealAeiouy]

There will probably even be an online service where you upload your parses. It will have code in place to look for tampering (combinations of damage numbers that aren't possible, for example) as the theorycrafting gets better.

 

That will give you a parsescore.

 

Then people will ask you to link your parsescrore to get into the op.

 

Lol but first will be the tamper program that you will not be able to detect. Why you think you would be able to detect significant damage boosts is not clear to me.

 

Suffice it to say they will be easily faked by people who want to behave that way.

 

It is fine for guilds, stupid for pugs and will never hold up

[Timtimbot]

Because WoW invented combat logs and is the only game that has them? Please read my entire post.

 

We need combat logs...even though its not hard to see what rotation you need for what situation.

 

 

Dude, I am not talking about addons. Please read the OP.

 

Threat Meter at first was an Addon introduce to WoW and it made the game easy as pie (I am a tank) They are horrible. Here's how you Tank or dps properly without a threat meter

 

1. As a tank if the Rakghoul is hitting you HEY You got threat! If say that baby rakghoul isn't hitting you an its hitting a healer you didn't put enough threat on it before you stayed on one target. If its attacking a dps that dps did not give you about a 5 second head start before going all piss-ku piss-ku on it.

 

That's all you need to know about threat, Tanks should normally produce more threat then a healer. DPS Needs to cool their jets and let the mechanics of the game work properly.

[Kindara]

If you just spam your abilities and gain threat who's problem is that? Yours. Don't spam if a mob jumps on you and the tank grabs it back lay off it to remove some of the aggro its no different then if you had a flashy baby meter to help you.

 

It trivializes the content and player ability to grow and learn if you just let them go into robot mode. People ask for challenge then cry for a baby meter I mean really? Im not denying they're helpful but they become a requirement and thats ridiculous if you know how to play you shouldn't be required by some schmucks to have a meter in order to group.

[Timtimbot]

8 People go into op.

 

They aren't succeeding

 

They want to know why.

 

They all have combat logs of themselves.

 

They all get together and do'asjdasd share their combat logs amongst eachother.

 

No one that doesn't want to be examined under a magnifying glass has to be, people that are in organized raids to care enough about their combat logs can easily just share their combat logs amongst their little raid team and figure it out.

 

Is THAT such a hard concept to understand?

 

Nope and in fact it brings a guild together more instead of segregating 1 member

[Serbegorn]

If the logs don't show other people's performance then it's pretty much useless. What good is data on me if there's nothing to compare it to?

 

Personally, I just want an IN GAME log that i can scroll thru after a fight. Sorry, but the flying text stuff is just crap. Maybe if I was some drooling mentally handicapped console gamer that had the attention span of a gnat, it might be enough.

[RealAeiouy]

they make plenty of sense. Some people like to analyze data, with it's full context.

 

Why did ability A hit for X damage this time, and only Y damage this other time? Oh, it's because Bob had just hit it with debuff B right before X.

 

You don't get to see that sort of thing with a single person only log.

 

They don't make sense from a feedback standpoint as it is impossible for your character to accurately assess and compile all the combat going on around them.

 

In MUDs the text is all the feedback you had. In 3d mmogs it is not so again they make no sense.

[ferroz]

Lol but first will be the tamper program that you will not be able to detect. Why you think you would be able to detect significant damage boosts is not clear to me.

Because damage numbers may actually obey specific rules, where there are certain discrete values that are possible and all other values aren't possible.

 

in EQ, for example, there was a min damage, and a max damage, and X number of values between for any particular ability. Those values were all calculable, so if you tampered with some of your numbers, it was easily detected.

 

Whether something like that can be done in TOR is yet to be determined.

 

edit: other detection methods, off the top of my head:

 

• abilities that aren't possible due to violating cooldowns or the gcd (ie, trying to add abilities)
  
• damage that would require stats that aren't possible in game (simply going in and find/replacing all values to increase them across the board in a way that works with the damage formulas correctly.
  
• damage parses that are "too perfect" to actually be done by a human.
  

 

optimally, you'd wind up with some sort of "tampering confidence level" for each parse. if a parse was ever determined to be tampered with, that would tank your parsescore.

Edited March 7, 2012 by ferroz

[RealAeiouy]

I'm pretty sure I responded to your response, pointing out the fact that the quote that you're using doesn't actually say that...

 

I don't have a notification from a mod, so either it's there, or it got et by the forums. EDIT: No, I checked, that response is still there.

 

You do realize a lot of people asked for non shared logs and the system they are implementing makes no sense if you log everything around you. That and being called personal.

 

There is a lot of evidence to support it being player only and none to support otherwise.