PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[Stupiddrummer]

Alot of "hardcore" players claimed they were leaving the game because of a lack of features and design elements that cater to their style of play. Catering to more hardcore-style play and drawing them back into the population could go a number of ways.

 

if you're going to claim that hardcore players are a detriment to the overall community, you best go on and get right outa town now, partna'

[Starglide]

Claims to be competitive/'hardcore' (laugh), needs a crutch to play.

 

The most ironic part of all of this is, most of us who do not want any form of group wide meters are of this opinion exactly because people like you are in the game. People who's entire self worth stems from a fictional achievement in a video game...

 

Since you intend on making blind low blows, please tell me someone who was ranked in a past MMO or played competitively (yes, like myself), is against some type of real combat log or meters (even though meters are not what the discussion is about).

 

Mathematically recording your encounters to make sure you are optimized and performing at max potential is far from a crutch. Actually, on the contrary, not having those things is the true crutch.

 

 

P.S. I was in a US 84th guild and ranked 127 US and 330 World in World of Warcraft. Also a 3x gladiator. So yes, I consider myself a competitive MMO gamer.

 

If you have nothing productive to say and/or do not understand the argument or what we are asking to be implemented (which it seems)--stay out of the conversation. You are making yourself look ridiculous.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Starglide

[Matte_Black]

I watched the live interview and i could clearly see on the body expressions that they really didnt want a full combat log in the game.

 

Having watched the same video, I'd second that impression.

[Stupiddrummer]

Not providing the ability to do it eliminates the possibility of the behavior and they are still able to provide the functionality to see how you are doing personally. Really - it's an elegant solution.

 

Jerk players are still going to find a way to interrupt your zen-like gaming experience. I'd rather they use the objective approach (real numbers) than subjective reasoning (aka your ranged dps sucks compared to melee dps because i said so).

[ProfessorWalsh]

POLL

 

I want to create this poll to try and get a sensus on combat logs and the importance of real logs along with DPS meters, threat meters and the like. Please keep this discussion civil. Below is what I wrote in the UI thread from the guild summit.

 

Understand, currently the new logs are only accessable outside of the game and only display information that has happened to you. (ie the "what happened to me" button in WoW's combat log). DO NOT VOTE if you do not understand combat logs, what kind of combat logs they are implementing (only self, a lot of people do not understand this as I have read from answers to other threads), or if you intend to troll.

 

NOTE:

 

Combat logs serve important for the future of DPS meters, threat meters and all around important additions that will help improve the overall performance of players, knowledge of players and most importantly CONTROL of your character.

 

Also understand that it will be MORE DIFFICULT for BioWare to implement TRULY difficult content with more engaging mechanics without the use of combat logs and logging for improvement.

 

I do not want BioWare to add "comprehensive logs" to this game because I feel it makes content that is otherwise challenging extremely easy. I feel "personal logs" as BioWare is instituting is perfectly fine and allows for self improvement to be added (You can see what killed you, and you can share your data with others if you so chose to, and you can discern your own personal DPS) to the game as many requested. I feel that these combat logs are all that is required and will go a long way to achieving a decent compromise between the "No logs" and "Full logs" factions on the forums.

[Matte_Black]

if you're going to claim that hardcore players are a detriment to the overall community, you best go on and get right outa town now, partna'

 

I merely pointed out two potentially connected details. I cannot confirm nor deny their correlation.

[Tewnam]

I don't know of ONE single MMO that does not have a fully functional combat log included.

Never heard of it, never expected it to see in our modern days. But low and behold, here it is - no combat log at all and no plans whatsoever to include one.

 

Firstly, didn't they just say they are including one? Just because it's not the in-game viewable real-time one that you want doesn't mean there won't be one. You're just skewing the facts.

 

Secondly, I'm pretty sure you can't universally quantify that all MMOs ever created didn't have an in-game log or meter. I'm pretty sure FFXI didn't have one, for instance, and that game had some of the hardest bosses that players of any game have ever faced, and yet they still did alright (though some bosses went years before finally being killed).

 

Thirdly, google "argumentum ad antiquitatem". It's a logical fallacy that simply because something has been done for a long time in the past that it is acceptable. Otherwise there might still be an argument for slavery because, hey, it worked well for thousands of years.

[Englefield]

This outlook that BioWare and the community has taken about the combat logs is utterly ridiculous, flawed and unfair to the experienced/competitive community. There is a mode for the casuals. Why are casuals having a say in how competitive/hardcore gaming is implemented?

 

Have you considered the idea that this game may not be aimed at the competitive hardcore cummunity?

 

There is a mode for the casuals? Yes, and there are games for the harcore. This aint it.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Englefield

[Stupiddrummer]

I merely pointed out two potentially connected details. I cannot confirm nor deny their correlation.

 

" I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me."

[Starglide]

Having watched the same video, I'd second that impression.

 

Zoeller said that improving combat logs and adding other such performance analysis features are very high on their priority list and that they understand players want to monitor their activity. They understand the importance of damage meters and threat meters and they will be in the game soon. Not in 1.2, but soon.

 

How did you get anything else from that?

[Starglide]

I do not want BioWare to add "comprehensive logs" to this game because I feel it makes content that is otherwise challenging extremely easy. I feel "personal logs" as BioWare is instituting is perfectly fine and allows for self improvement to be added (You can see what killed you, and you can share your data with others if you so chose to, and you can discern your own personal DPS) to the game as many requested. I feel that these combat logs are all that is required and will go a long way to achieving a decent compromise between the "No logs" and "Full logs" factions on the forums.

 

This is a very different outlook than most and one that I respect.

[Brickabrack]

No for public combat logs. They are already giving us private combat logs. If you truly want help getting better at the game, or want to help others get better at the game, you can share your log with somone by sending it to them via email or something and have them look at it for you, or vice versa.

[Starglide]

Have you considered the idea that this game may not be aimed at the competitive hardcore cummunity?

 

There is a mode for the casuals? Yes, and there are games for the harcore. This aint it.

 

Oh, then having Story mode for casuals and Hard and Nightmare mode for the competitive players slipped off Daniel Erickson's tongue?

 

Go watch the guild summit before posting.

[Vydor_HC]

Zoeller said that improving combat logs and adding other such performance analysis features are very high on their priority list and that they understand players want to monitor their activity. They understand the importance of damage meters and threat meters and they will be in the game soon. Not in 1.2, but soon.

 

How did you get anything else from that?

 

So, the question begs, if all of what you want is going to be in the game, per the developers, why are you starting threads like this? Myself, I did not hear or have ever read that from the developers, yet you seem convinced, but then argue in a thread here like they are not going to be adding those features. Honestly I am confused at the lack of consistency.

[Starglide]

No for public combat logs. They are already giving us private combat logs. If you truly want help getting better at the game, or want to help others get better at the game, you can share your log with somone by sending it to them via email or something and have them look at it for you, or vice versa.

 

Read the thread man. Why should raid leaders have to go offline and ask everyone to upload logs just to review simple things all because casual players don't want to be judged based on skill, lol.

 

These arguments are so ridiculous. If you don't want to be judged based on your performance, go play Story Mode--simple. Stop being selfish and begging BioWare to cater to a demographic that doesn't understand combat logs in the first place, therefore wouldn't use them to judge each other. A hardcore member is going to judge you regardless. Don't like it, don't raid competitively. A combat log isn't going to fix that.

 

How come this simple point is so hard to understand. It really shows the intelligence level of combat logs disputers.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Starglide

[Englefield]

Oh, then having Story mode for casuals and Hard and Nightmare mode for the competitive players slipped off Daniel Erickson's tongue?

 

Go watch the guild summit before posting.

 

This thread is not about the guild summit, it's about combat logs. As the OP you should have known that.

[Starglide]

This thread is not about the guild summit, it's about combat logs. As the OP you should have known that.

 

What? It is about the combat log that was announced at the guild summit. You are arguing points while missing information.

[Retadine]

Combat logs should be there and visible to every one.

 

All I see from people saying 'no' is that they are afraid there will be hard facts to show that their play style is bad and they will get kicked from their groups.

 

Sorry, I'm not willing to waste my precious play time just because somebody doesn't know how to play.

[Starglide]

So, the question begs, if all of what you want is going to be in the game, per the developers, why are you starting threads like this? Myself, I did not hear or have ever read that from the developers, yet you seem convinced, but then argue in a thread here like they are not going to be adding those features. Honestly I am confused at the lack of consistency.

 

Because this thread isn't about meters it is about a traditional combat log.

[Vydor_HC]

Because this thread isn't about meters it is about a traditional combat log.

 

Here is your quote.

 

Zoeller said that improving combat logs and adding other such performance analysis features are very high on their priority list and that they understand players want to monitor their activity. They understand the importance of damage meters and threat meters and they will be in the game soon. Not in 1.2, but soon.

 

How did you get anything else from that?

 

You say combat logs, not me. So, my question is, if the developers are saying what you claim they are saying, why are you arguing for it as if they are not? And why start this poll?

 

Also, can you provide me the link to the dev statement about what you claim they said?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Vydor_HC

[ScarletBlaze]

No.

 

 

I have seen it misused by other people too many times so the way they are doing it is the way it should be.

 

 

Note: Starglide, don't bother arguing with me my answer is still no or do you not understand some people don't like the idea so you think by arguing with them you can make them see your way.

 

You asked for their vote yet when they say no you constantly argue with them or is this your way of starting an argument.

Edited March 7, 2012 by ScarletBlaze

[mufutiz]

I don't think you understand what you are getting - at all. They are going to dump your combat information to a log on your computer that you can then parse through with a tool, similar to ACT that was linked previously.

 

It isn't a DPS meter like you keep professing - it is a combat log that includes only your combat information. That is how they are presenting it and that is my understanding of it until they say otherwise.

 

You continue to claim it is something else and then rail against it.

 

no no, exactly that is my understanding as well. which is the whole problem.

 

I was mentioning dps meters because this is what the whole discussion revolves around. Read through this thread, 9/10 responses put combat log = dps meter / group parsing.

 

The whole discussion revolves around people who are apparently very afraid of dps meters for obvious reasons and people who lobby hard for them for equally obvious reasons. I don't care about any of these people.

 

I want one of the most basic MMO features, that's all. I want my combat log.

 

I don't want Bioware's warped idea of a combat log that will most likely be clunky to use, require me to sift through meaningless data and worst of all - isn't implemented in the game but requires me to work through the data outside of the game.

 

I don't want to do any parsing. I want to look at my combat log while playing the game and be able to see instantly what happened to my character over the last 20 seconds or so. I want it all, the damage I ate, the damage I dealt, the mitigation and DR on both sides, my parries, dodges, shields and misses. I want to see the name of the player dotting me up, I want to see when the boss crit me, I want to see everything I might possibly want to know, in the game, instantly.

 

And no, it might seem like it but it's not too much to ask for a game like this.

Because that is exactly the way everybody has been doing it in any other MMO for the last 15 years or so.

Edited March 7, 2012 by mufutiz

[Drewser]

Lots of QQing in this thread from the so called "hardcore".

[Loendar]

Jerk players are still going to find a way to interrupt your zen-like gaming experience. I'd rather they use the objective approach (real numbers) than subjective reasoning (aka your ranged dps sucks compared to melee dps because i said so).

 

Okay - we may not agree on this topic but I do like your comment above about my zen-like gaming experience. It made me laugh for reals. And I appreciate that.

[Vydor_HC]

I want one of the most basic MMO features, that's all. I want my combat log.

 

Which is coming in 1.2, maybe your definition is different than theirs, but the combat log will be there.