PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[Drewser]

We don't actually know what they're giving us; they've been intentionally vague about it.

 

They have been pretty clear about it, you just don't like what they have said.

 

No one has produced a quote where they have said it will be anything other than your information.

 

The other quotes clearly state it will be your information about your character.

[agassparkle]

No competition , no discrimination.

I like the way it is.

[ChicksDigHarleys]

"We're sorry, you've already voted in this poll!". No I haven't. What the hell?

[DangerMouse]

Vote= NO

 

It comes into the game then me and my 14.99 go elsewhere.

[Vankris]

Originally Posted by -Fritz-

every time this gets brought up by the same couple people all i see is:

 

 

X - Player 1 - 125,000 dmg 1000 dps

X - Player 2 - 95,000 dmg 750 dps

X - Player 3 - 65,000 dmg 500 dps

X - Player 4 - 25,000 dmg 100 dps

X - *** PLAYER 1 IS CARRY THE GROUP, YOU OTHER PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN TO PLAY, THIS IS PATHETIC, IM KICKING ALL OF YOU LOSERS FOR SOME REAL DPS

 

--you have been removed from the group

 

 

me - dude i had to use the bathroom...

 

Boss enrage party dies (for the 11th times in a row)

Player 1 and 3 are a dps

Player 2 is the tank!!!

Player 4 is the healer

 

Something is terribly wrong here, maybe replacing player 3 will help the party kill the boss

or maybe the group may wipe another 11 times before finally disbanding.

[Vagessel]

The implementation they have suggested is the best implementation conceivable, really. It does what it needs to do: players and fansites can collect submissions and average out. People will learn and there even will be rotations developed and all that stuff.

 

But it precludes children spamming meter readings on every pull or having the gaming experience and encounters replaced by mathematical and statistical analytical dissections for an hour after each raid.

 

Say yes to meters for players, say no to WoW.

[Stupiddrummer]

i couldn't vote in your poll, but if i could i'd vote YES to real combat logs.

 

I want to know my dps output on the fly so i can test variations without having to alt-tab.

 

i played WoW for 5 years, and if i learned anything about dps meters:

 

No one cares about your dps.

 

No one cares about my dps, except for me.

[-Fritz-]

Boss enrage party dies (for the 11th times in a row)

Player 1 and 3 are a dps

Player 2 is the tank!!!

Player 4 is the healer

 

Something is terribly wrong here, maybe replacing player 3 will help the party kill the boss

or maybe the group may wipe another 11 times before finally disbanding.

 

 

it was really just an example, but even you who at least provide a somewhat reasonable arguement jump right for the elitism.

 

instead of "we could help player 3 be better"

you jumped straight to "we could remove player 3"

 

 

which just goes to show whats really at the heart of the matter.

[DangerMouse]

Boss enrage party dies (for the 11th times in a row)

Player 1 and 3 are a dps

Player 2 is the tank!!!

Player 4 is the healer

 

Something is terribly wrong here, maybe replacing player 3 will help the party kill the boss

or maybe the group may wipe another 11 times before finally disbanding.

 

 

Or maybe Player 3 is melee and has to run out of the fight every 30 sec. and the tank stood in bad Sh%* that made his health drop as fast as a rocket.

 

But instead the elitist that thinks it is the dps kicks player 3. they get another player and wipe 11 more times before they quit group

[Tiddex]

Boss enrage party dies (for the 11th times in a row)

Player 1 and 3 are a dps

Player 2 is the tank!!!

Player 4 is the healer

 

Something is terribly wrong here, maybe replacing player 3 will help the party kill the boss

or maybe the group may wipe another 11 times before finally disbanding.

 

If you need a dps-meter to figure out that gap in dps, then YOU are the one who deserves a kick.

[smexymage]

I vote NO to your post, I like the way BW are doing it. A happy medium between the two.

 

With WoW type combat logs, it brings in a sense of play where even if you are doing enough DPS to down a boss, if you are lowest on the table, you get frowned upon. If you do enough damage to down a boss, then that's all you need. Tables are for ego warriors.

Edited March 7, 2012 by smexymage

[Vydor_HC]

I like the option Bioware has presented for us. When I read over this thread and others like it, it's becomes perfectly clear that the abuse from a group wide log would outweigh any usefulness it might provide to the subset of players that want it. The attitudes of the supporters towards those that oppose it borders on the appalling, and there is no reason to encourage that inside the game if it's not required and game play does not suffer.

 

People are not "bad" if they do not want group wide logs or meters in the game....these threads and the treatment those players get is evidence enough of the reason not to have them.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Vydor_HC

[Tiddex]

it was really just an example, but even you who at least provide a somewhat reasonable arguement jump right for the elitism.

 

instead of "we could help player 3 be better"

you jumped straight to "we could remove player 3"

 

 

which just goes to show whats really at the heart of the matter.

 

 

and sooooooo /this

 

nuff said.

 

My battlelog is MY data and I give to whoever I want.

[Loendar]

People expect the good features that they've seen in MMO's for more than a decade; when an MMO is released that lacks one of those features, it's quite understandable that people will ask for those to be added.

 

'Good features' is pretty much a matter of opinion. It is *my* opinion that full combat logs are a bad feature and cause a host of problems.

[LePoonzoo]

so from what i read it seems like the people against combat logs and such for other ppl to see are those who didnt do some form of serious raiding before or dont raid at all. Getting every single point of dmg from your rotation is essential to any decent raid group. Hell it even helps you build a working rotation. And considering the average skill lvl ive seen players have in this game, they need all the help they can get. (lookin at you mr 'Ive never played an MMO before the only reason im playing this because its starwars' guy

[Vankris]

it was really just an example, but even you who at least provide a somewhat reasonable arguement jump right for the elitism.

 

instead of "we could help player 3 be better"

you jumped straight to "we could remove player 3"

 

 

which just goes to show whats really at the heart of the matter.

 

This is not elitism really, i am not elitist at all (if you knew me) but...

 

- I really hate right now not knowing anything. Did i do well? What killed me? how do my perf compare to the rest of the group? I hate charity and i hate being carried, i wanna work for my sweets, they taste much better.

 

 

- I have seen some trooper in FP running out of ammo in 30 secondes and spending most of the fight very low in ammo, at the lowest ammo regen speed ever. As soon as they have 2 ammo they spend it. I don't need damage meter to tell their DPS is probably terrible, don't know how terrible but probably 20-30% what they could really do.

 

I tried to tell them, and was welcomed with "i play how i want you f...ing elitist"

so you try to help player and get insuted, you tell them about some class mechanics and you are an "elistist".

 

but it could be worse. Player 3 could be the healer, and player 4 an actual DPS

that wouldn't even surprise me.

[Loendar]

so from what i read it seems like the people against combat logs and such for other ppl to see are those who didnt do some form of serious raiding before or dont raid at all. Getting every single point of dmg from your rotation is essential to any decent raid group. Hell it even helps you build a working rotation. And considering the average skill lvl ive seen players have in this game, they need all the help they can get. (lookin at you mr 'Ive never played an MMO before the only reason im playing this because its starwars' guy

 

Incorrect.

 

I am an active raider in another game (not WoW) AND I use a full real-time parser over there to track my performance.

 

I am against them here because I feel that they ultimately damage the community, cater to the min/max people, make PUG's a potential spamming nightmare and in the end everyone HAS to use them to compete because the content it tweaked to require knowing what is happening every second.

 

I believe your observation is pretty well debunked.

[Vankris]

If you need a dps-meter to figure out that gap in dps, then YOU are the one who deserves a kick.

 

maybe, i really don't know how you could figure people dps from there animation. I am not a very very good player, just an average one.

[Loendar]

This is not elitism really, i am not elitist at all (if you knew me) but...

 

- I really hate right now not knowing anything. Did i do well? What killed me? how do my perf compare to the rest of the group? I hate charity and i hate being carried, i wanna work for my sweets, they taste much better.

 

 

- I have seen some trooper in FP running out of ammo in 30 secondes and spending most of the fight very low in ammo, at the lowest ammo regen speed ever. As soon as they have 2 ammo they spend it. I don't need damage meter to tell their DPS is probably terrible, don't know how terrible but probably 20-30% what they could really do.

 

I tried to tell them, and was welcomed with "i play how i want you f...ing elitist"

so you try to help player and get insuted, you tell them about some class mechanics and you are an "elistist".

 

but it could be worse. Player 3 could be the healer, and player 4 an actual DPS

that wouldn't even surprise me.

 

This solution still allows you to answer your first bullet point. You just won't have access to anyone else's information unless they agree to give it to you. So, on point one, you are getting it.

 

For the second point - if you are that concerned you can ask them for their log and help them. They are, of course, entitled to tell you to take a flying leap - which is how it should be.

 

You should be able to see what you are doing - it is none of your business what I'm doing.

[genesiser]

It says I already voted, but I haven't so I'll just vote here.

 

I say, YES to real time logs ala recount or skada.

 

I know people say, "You only need one for yourself, so why care about other people?" To that I say, I DO care what other people do. Yes, I mainly use it for myself to improve my own performance, but if someone is doing terrible, I want to know.

 

I used to raid in WoW (sorry I'm not a child and can actually say the name of a product I've used in the past) and a shadow priest in our group had to quit the game for personal reasons. We got another shadow priest in our guild to replace him, but she was terrible - and our group knew it. This was towards the beginning of cataclysm when we were raiding bastion of twilight. This new shadow priest was in full epics from crafting and reputation gear and she could barely pull 7k dps. Everyone else was doing between 13-16k dps. During the week we tried to help her out by giving her new rotations and all that jazz, but the next week came around and she was still doing 7k dps. She just wasn't good. After the raid we told her we were going to let her go and replaced her with a shadow priest with worse gear than she had and he was doing 14k dps. Needless to say, our group got better and we cleared the place shortly after.

 

If wow had a system like the one swtor is going to implement, we may have never known just how bad she was. With her having to open a 3rd party program to translate her combat log and having to upload it somewhere, she probably would have kept giving us excuses of why she never got around to it. Also, if she had just looked at it and then typed her results in guild chat, she could have easily lied and gave us false information.

 

Why people are against others seeing their numbers and how they perform is beyond me. When you are playing a GROUP game, why would you want to hide your stats? Is it because you want to hide the fact that you don't care about the group and are just there to leech off the group to get some upgrades? Do you like the anonymity of not letting others see you so you have no accountability as a dps? That's the only answer I can come up with, zero accountability as a dps. Yes, there are a few bad apples that will talk trash if you are just doing mediocre, but they are the minority, not the majority. If you played well in the first place, you wouldn't have to worry about them anyway.

 

It's kind of like when you were in school or if you are in school. If you are going to take a test for some class and you haven't studied for it, you are going to be nervous. If you prepared and know you can perform well on the test, you don't worry about it and it's just another day of class. It's the same with damage meters. If you know you can play your class and can actually put out good numbers, you don't worry that others can see your numbers. If you are bad and know you won't put out good numbers, you worry that others may see it and say something. So in the end, just learn how to play your class and you'll be fine with real time damage meters.

[crimsonsglory]

so from what i read it seems like the people against combat logs and such for other ppl to see are those who didnt do some form of serious raiding before or dont raid at all. Getting every single point of dmg from your rotation is essential to any decent raid group. Hell it even helps you build a working rotation. And considering the average skill lvl ive seen players have in this game, they need all the help they can get. (lookin at you mr 'Ive never played an MMO before the only reason im playing this because its starwars' guy

 

yea agree. i can imagine these haters are those kind of baddies i constantly kick in my raids and those bench warmers in my guild raid. they suffered enough in wow. now let them be in swtor lmao

Edited March 7, 2012 by crimsonsglory

[Loendar]

yea agree. i can imagine these haters are those kind of baddies i constantly kick in my raids and those bench warmers in my guild raid. they suffered enough in wow. now let them be in swtor lmao

 

It must be rough going through life this clueless.

[Drewser]

This solution still allows you to answer your first bullet point. You just won't have access to anyone else's information unless they agree to give it to you. So, on point one, you are getting it.

 

For the second point - if you are that concerned you can ask them for their log and help them. They are, of course, entitled to tell you to take a flying leap - which is how it should be.

 

You should be able to see what you are doing - it is none of your business what I'm doing.

 

If battles are being won I agree, but it becomes other players' business if you are constantly causing wipes or doing too little DPS so enrage timers are going off.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Drewser

[LePoonzoo]

Incorrect.

 

I am an active raider in another game (not WoW) AND I use a full real-time parser over there to track my performance.

 

I am against them here because I feel that they ultimately damage the community, cater to the min/max people, make PUG's a potential spamming nightmare and in the end everyone HAS to use them to compete because the content it tweaked to require knowing what is happening every second.

 

I believe your observation is pretty well debunked.

 

 

Pugs are a nightmare as is anyway, I dont see how weeding out the lazy ****s who just facemash the keyboard is a bad thing? and the thing is, the majority of the *** whole min/max peeps will be grouping only with the min/max peeps they know or their guildies. So they are of little concern

[Vankris]

if i'm bad, i want the game or other people telling me that i'm bad. They don't even need to sugar-coat it, i'm not made of chocolate, i will not melt. I want to know so i can work on it and get better.

 

 

If i'm good, i want other to know that i am an asset to the group. I will not brag, i will not spam damage meter result, but people will know, that guys is a good player, we can count on him. Being accepted and trusted is a big part of a multiplayer game for me.