jitsuo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) They're not really angry that new players will be able to gear up quickly once they hit 50, it's that there's very little extra rewards for the cream of the crop. I do agree that most of the "standard" PvP gear should be accessible to fresh 50's easily so they can compete in Warzones, but I also believe there should be a pinnacle set of gear that the best of the best are able to achieve. I'm not talking about "hard to get" like BM gear was (it's more of a time sink), but top gear for players that reach the top marks in Valor and ranked Warzones, making it so that only those that both put in the time and are truly good players can achieve it. It would look the coolest and wouldn't have huge stat increases over the 2nd best gear (for the sake of the QQ-ers) but the difference would be noticeable. What say you? I think this would give people a goal to grind for, something that they were kind of missing in the earlier PvP content. EDIT: To clarify, the gear wouldn't have insanely increased stats, the stats should be a minor upgrade from the 2nd gear. What it should be is 10x cooler looking and very distinctive to service the ego of those who worked to be the best. Edited March 6, 2012 by jitsuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Its just the seasonal transitional period... Why be angry when in a few weeks a whole new tier will be coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emencie Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I just don't understand this line of thinking. Its like having a professional boxer fight a child and then if the boxer wins you give him a baseball bat... then a gun. Why? in what competitive anything do you give the winners and more skilled people more advantages? Cosmetics is all it should have ever been. Edited March 6, 2012 by Emencie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Its just the seasonal transitional period... Why be angry when in a few weeks a whole new tier will be coming up. I'm talking about the 1.2 changes as well, people seem to be up in arms that Valor will be meaningless and that the top end Gear will be able to be achieved by casual players. I think these are good things, but I believe there should be one set of gear with a marginal increase in stats that mostly serves to stroke their owner's E-Peens (which is what most top PvP-ers want) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I think its just because people come to the forums to *****. It doesn't matter what the changes are someone is going to be mad about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I just don't understand this line of thinking. Its like having a professional boxer fight a child and then if the boxer wins you give him a baseball bat... then a gun. Why? in what competitive anything do you give the winners and more skilled people more advantages? Cosmetics is all it should have ever been. It's more like a boxer fighting someone else who wasn't even wearing a helmet, because he hadn't fought in enough fights yet to "earn" his protective gear. That's what these people want for some reason, and they're angry they can't beat up the helmetless guy anymore. Edited March 6, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseblaster Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 They're not really angry that new players will be able to gear up quickly once they hit 50, it's that there's very little extra rewards for the cream of the crop. . Bingo. All the 50's i know felt a sense of achievement getting that higher end 50 gear. And the new 50's saw it as a right of passage to earn it. Now we're back in kindergarten where everyone gets a medal. Same goes for pre-50 PVP as well. No longer a reward for grinding out PVP leveling and excelling, cause even the wankers who sit and do nothing for most of the match can earn just as much reward as you do win or lose. And the winners rewards aren't that much better than the losers rewards to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rykke Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 No, you got it wrong. You don't need to reward the cream of the crop with yet another set of gear, that is the worst thing you can do right now. Most people are upset because coming out of a WZ, a player who does better statistically is awarded the same as any other person on the team. If you really want a cool set for the BEST OF THE BEST LOL IM COOL, make it an aesthetics upgrade. MMOs are time-sinks and that will fulfill that aspect. The gear gap isn't as bad as it were before but trying to widen the gap is just plain stupid. This is coming from a fully geared 50, not some scrub that QQs about not being able to get gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm probably just weird because I love playing PvP for the PvP, but it's always nice to have that one goal that seems nigh unachievable, gives you something to look forward to as opposed to just running through the daily grind. Once you're decked out in BM gear there's not much to do but get Valor to 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 No, you got it wrong. You don't need to reward the cream of the crop with yet another set of gear, that is the worst thing you can do right now. Most people are upset because coming out of a WZ, a player who does better statistically is awarded the same as any other person on the team. If you really want a cool set for the BEST OF THE BEST LOL IM COOL, make it an aesthetics upgrade. MMOs are time-sinks and that will fulfill that aspect. The gear gap isn't as bad as it were before but trying to widen the gap is just plain stupid. This is coming from a fully geared 50, not some scrub that QQs about not being able to get gear. The increase on the gear should be very small, just enough to be recognized as "Best of the Best" gear. Imagine the difference between doing 10000 DPS and 10500 DPS in WoW, same thing, but it would serve as a de-facto "goal" for PvP-ers and would serve more asthetic purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAmedeo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Well, I guess I am short-sighted and I am screwed. I equip the best gear I have from either PvP and PvE and sell the rest. So, now they will change the stats and I wish I had back some of that gear I sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emencie Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 No, you got it wrong. You don't need to reward the cream of the crop with yet another set of gear, that is the worst thing you can do right now. Most people are upset because coming out of a WZ, a player who does better statistically is awarded the same as any other person on the team. If you really want a cool set for the BEST OF THE BEST LOL IM COOL, make it an aesthetics upgrade. MMOs are time-sinks and that will fulfill that aspect. The gear gap isn't as bad as it were before but trying to widen the gap is just plain stupid. This is coming from a fully geared 50, not some scrub that QQs about not being able to get gear. ^ truth! It not fun to just crush people because they don't have the gear you have. Why would you want that? I've actually just let people go in Ilum before after hitting them and watching them start to run for their lives. It's just sad. Cosmetics for PVP! I support this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Well, I guess I am short-sighted and I am screwed. I equip the best gear I have from either PvP and PvE and sell the rest. So, now they will change the stats and I wish I had back some of that gear I sold. I have kept my orange level 40 white robe that looks awesome in my stash waiting for just such an occasion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zellata Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I think people are upset for a completely different reason. RPGs have always been about character and gear progression (higher level has advantage over lower level, best gear has advantage over second best gear), as opposed to virtually all other game types that are skill-based. FPS, simulators, RTS, even good old game of chess...all have players using the same "equipment" and the outcome of the contest is decided by skill alone. Removing gear progression from an RPG will alienate people that like it and cause them to go look for another game, while the crowd that actually likes games based purely on skill was never here to begin with (whining baddies on these forums don't count), as they play all those other game genres. The result will be that those PvPers that are still around will leave, which will result in even longer WZ queues, which in turn will cause casuals to get frustrated and leave...and the game will be down to one server with a dozen players on it. IMHO, trying to make an RPG into something it was never designed for by nature of being an RPG is a huge mistake. Edited March 6, 2012 by Zellata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rykke Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm probably just weird because I love playing PvP for the PvP, but it's always nice to have that one goal that seems nigh unachievable, gives you something to look forward to as opposed to just running through the daily grind. Once you're decked out in BM gear there's not much to do but get Valor to 100 If you do claim to like PvP for the PvP, why do you need another set of gear to work towards? The over-the-top long term goal at this moment would be valor 100. Even if they added the set of gear you wanted, you would still be doing the same thing as PvP in this game in very limited. Wait for GW2 to really satisfy your PvP thirst, even if some areas don't live up to the hype, from the ground up it will still be a better game than TOR. I guess the root of the problem is that SWTOR is not a hardcore game at all, the people who log more hours can easily do everything there needs to be done. Just take it easy, log when your friends are on and move onto something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 They're not really angry that new players will be able to gear up quickly once they hit 50, it's that there's very little extra rewards for the cream of the crop. Success, for the "cream of the crop", should be enough that they don't need a gear advantage...if they do, they weren't really the "cream of the crop" to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseblaster Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) It's more like a boxer fighting someone else who wasn't even wearing a helmet, because he hadn't fought in enough fights yet to "earn" his protective gear. That's what these people want for some reason, and they're angry they can't beat up the helmetless guy anymore. No it's more like saying to the Green Bay Packers "you have too many good recievers, and the St Louis Rams can't mentally handle it. So from now on you can't have Arod on the field as the same time as both Jennings and Nelson..." Or saying Crosby can't play with the first line in hockey, or you can't have more than two 15 win pitchers on your team.. Whatever analogy you want to use. It's ridiculous to penalize someone for putting forth the effort to better their characters. Now I get the same reward as some jerk who sits out most of the match and does squat. At least before when I played my a** off and got both offensive and defensive medals I was rewarded for the extra effort. Edited March 6, 2012 by Cheeseblaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 If you do claim to like PvP for the PvP, why do you need another set of gear to work towards? The over-the-top long term goal at this moment would be valor 100. Even if they added the set of gear you wanted, you would still be doing the same thing as PvP in this game in very limited. Wait for GW2 to really satisfy your PvP thirst, even if some areas don't live up to the hype, from the ground up it will still be a better game than TOR. I guess the root of the problem is that SWTOR is not a hardcore game at all, the people who log more hours can easily do everything there needs to be done. Just take it easy, log when your friends are on and move onto something else. This is very true, it's easy to get all the best stuff with a little time sink. Though I like PvP for itself, giving one a goal to work towards makes it that much sweeter. I like to enjoy every game won and every medal earned as I work toward something, something that takes a lot of work, time, and combat savvy-ness (is that even a word?) to obtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emencie Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 No it's more like saying to the Green Bay Packers "you have too many good recievers, and the St Louis Rams can't mentally handle it. So from now on you can't have Arod on the field as the same time as both Jennings and Nelson..." Or saying Crosby can't play with the first line in hockey, or you can't have more than two 15 win pitchers on your team.. Whatever analogy you want to use. It's ridiculous to penalize someone for putting forth the effort to better their characters. Now I get the same reward as some jerk who sits out most of the match and does squat. At least before when I played my a** off and got both offensive and defensive medals I was rewarded for the extra effort. What? You don't get a penalty at all for being good in any way. Getting the same reward as everyone else is not a penalty. Besides you wont. Even with the changes the players that play the most and do the best will get the best gear faster and easier. Its very simple If you are better than your opponent then the game gives you rewards that make you even better than your opponent. That's the fundamental flaw in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Humans naturally hate change. Edited March 6, 2012 by ComeAndSee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beyaco Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I just don't understand this line of thinking. Its like having a professional boxer fight a child and then if the boxer wins you give him a baseball bat... then a gun. Why? in what competitive anything do you give the winners and more skilled people more advantages? Cosmetics is all it should have ever been. This is a MMO. Care to explain what MMO follows that line of thinking? There would be no progression. No level 1-50. No skill trees. On the other hand, I can tell you plenty of FPS and RTS games that follow that line of thinking. Edited March 6, 2012 by Beyaco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiza Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 <- Not mad. Will continue to wreck my opponents, geared or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 No it's more like saying to the Green Bay Packers "you have too many good recievers, and the St Louis Rams can't mentally handle it. So from now on you can't have Arod on the field as the same time as both Jennings and Nelson..." Or saying Crosby can't play with the first line in hockey, or you can't have more than two 15 win pitchers on your team.. Whatever analogy you want to use. It's ridiculous to penalize someone for putting forth the effort to better their characters. Now I get the same reward as some jerk who sits out most of the match and does squat. At least before when I played my a** off and got both offensive and defensive medals I was rewarded for the extra effort. No...not really. It's more like saying that because Green Bay is superior in every way (which they are), they get to play the game in full pads, but St. Louis needs to start the game in shorts and earn pads IF they score. We all know, and everyone in the galactic core agrees, that the Packers are the best team - I'd prefer to see a game where the Pack simply destroys the Rams with even gear...not kills them without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 No it's more like saying to the Green Bay Packers "you have too many good recievers, and the St Louis Rams can't mentally handle it. So from now on you can't have Arod on the field as the same time as both Jennings and Nelson..." Or saying Crosby can't play with the first line in hockey, or you can't have more than two 15 win pitchers on your team.. Whatever analogy you want to use. It's ridiculous to penalize someone for putting forth the effort to better their characters. Now I get the same reward as some jerk who sits out most of the match and does squat. At least before when I played my a** off and got both offensive and defensive medals I was rewarded for the extra effort. ...This analogy is bad, even by this forum's standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emencie Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) This is a MMO. Care to explain what MMO follows that line of thinking? There would be no progression. No level 1-50. No skill trees. On the other hand, I can tell you plenty of FPS and RTS games that follow that line of thinking. All of them before resil was introduced in WoW? I mean I have no problem with progression at all. I love PvE but truly it has no place in competitive PvP at all. Honestly I thought Bioware hit the nail on the head with Bolster. Sure it had some problems but it was a great answer to the problem of PvE gear turning the tide in PvP. It was perfect I thought. When you step into PvP everyone is normalized period. No one better than the other except for the skill you bring to the table. And truly that is the way all competitive games and sports are played. As for what MMO follows that line of thinking I would say IMHO the game with the best MMORPG PvP ever made. Guildwars, It was an amazing system that rewarded teamwork, critical thinking with hundreds of build combinations, and your personal skill playing your character. The reward was winning, statistics and recognition. Edited March 6, 2012 by Emencie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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