Today I felt the Trauma

[Kulthiron]

As the post states, today has been the first time I noticed how my heals were simply massivly outscaled by the amount of damage someone could do to me in what felt like the blink of an eye, I got jumped by a rage Juggernaught and recived a 5.4k crit followed by a 2.3k one.(sorry for no screenshot was in a premade healing my *** of)

 

Same goes for Powertechs/Vanguards with their reset railshot specc it just absolutely hammers me down, I am in full Battlemaster and I did a duel with a Powertech buddy a while back and he was critting me for the high 3ks/4ks quite consitently and by his own admission 5k is not unusual.

 

Its just a downright disappointing experience playing a healing Sorc as of late, even in a full premade with guards and DPS assists I can hardly outheal one good player and its starting to feel like healing has lost its purpose.

 

My PoV is obviously a full corruption Sorc and I am in no way unbiased but it just feels ridicolous that stats I.E Willpower scale slower for healing then it does for DPS, I think the same applies to power as well but not sure.

 

Do you guys think this is the way it should be? that healers get singeled out for a 30% output debuff when DPS are scaling faster and the Time to kill in PvP is basically what it was for a PoM Pyro mage in Wow.(slight exageration to give the point abit of an edge)

 

My opinion is obviously skewed since I play a healer and the grass is always greener on the other side but this has been a lingering thought for a while now.

 

So essentially the question is do you guys think Trauma should be kept the way it is even when you see how much more powerfull DPS output is relative to healing?

 

Very intrested in opinions from both healers & dps

[Delphis]

Agree.

 

I've felt the same way against some dpser's. I'm a pure heals sage with a mix of BM and Champ gear. I do not feel like our survivability is as good as it should be. I do not think that one crit should take nearly half of a player's health.

 

On the flip side, if the enemy leaves me alone and I'm guarded, I can pretty much assure that everyone near me stays alive.

 

I was hoping that sage healers (and sorcs) had better defense. I'm fine with having almost no offense.

[Kulthiron]

Yeah I am cool with having no offense either and as you said if you are left alone all is well, but my PoV is vs other premades for the most part and prepping for rated as well I see this as a major upcoming issue.

[MrSteebin]

One healer with no tank is dead. Get a tank and watch. Even better if your warzone has 2 healers in it with a tank or two. Watch the wins come rolling in.

[Chaosmagistrate]

As the post states, today has been the first time I noticed how my heals were simply massivly outscaled by the amount of damage someone could do to me in what felt like the blink of an eye, I got jumped by a rage Juggernaught and recived a 5.4k crit followed by a 2.3k one.(sorry for no screenshot was in a premade healing my *** of)

 

Same goes for Powertechs/Vanguards with their reset railshot specc it just absolutely hammers me down, I am in full Battlemaster and I did a duel with a Powertech buddy a while back and he was critting me for the high 3ks/4ks quite consitently and by his own admission 5k is not unusual.

 

Its just a downright disappointing experience playing a healing Sorc as of late, even in a full premade with guards and DPS assists I can hardly outheal one good player and its starting to feel like healing has lost its purpose.

 

My PoV is obviously a full corruption Sorc and I am in no way unbiased but it just feels ridicolous that stats I.E Willpower scale slower for healing then it does for DPS, I think the same applies to power as well but not sure.

 

Do you guys think this is the way it should be? that healers get singeled out for a 30% output debuff when DPS are scaling faster and the Time to kill in PvP is basically what it was for a PoM Pyro mage in Wow.(slight exageration to give the point abit of an edge)

 

My opinion is obviously skewed since I play a healer and the grass is always greener on the other side but this has been a lingering thought for a while now.

 

So essentially the question is do you guys think Trauma should be kept the way it is even when you see how much more powerfull DPS output is relative to healing?

 

Very intrested in opinions from both healers & dps

 

You've focused entirely on crits, and My Commando healer has triple-crit for 11k heals in 3s through trauma, so by that evidence alone, healing is OP...but it's not. Dueling is never a good measure, especially if your experience is from WoW, where healers were the ultimate duelers, well once they fixed the warlock chain fear bs in Vanilla.

 

As far as scaling, I don't know the willpower/healing point conversion, so I can't comment on that.

 

But healers who try to rough it on their own in a warzone by turreting and ignoring any DPS on them tend to die pretty quickly. But a guarded healer who sticks with their group magnifies their team's effectiveness.

 

I tend toward healers on their own are weak, but in a group environment, they are worth more than an additional DPS...up to a point. Six healers, 2 DPS, is funny, but doesnt' really accomplish anything.

 

And if you are heaving problems keeping anyone alive, with a full guard on, and peelers protecting you...either the target you are trying to heal is being focus-fired, and which that means, your guard should transfer their guard and taunt the victim's attackers, or that guy just got opened up by two Operatives, and imploded. An unmolested healer basically can keep almost anyone alive except if the victim is getting chewed apart by three+ players.

[Hethroin]

This game has no active healing debuff except for one class. Even that has a single target application and a cooldown. Other MMOs have 50% healing debuffs on a number of classes some of which can be applied passively and to a number of targets. As far as managing a balance I feel this game has it, as you are not forced to always have a "X" in your group to apply AE-Healdebuff.

 

The reason why your willpower for healing does not generate as much healing as it does damage, is due to the fact that most damage is mitigated by armor which also has a growth curve.

 

I don't think it is fair to yourself (as a healer) approach group PVP from a "If someone died than I failed" perspective. People are supposed to die in PVP. Some times they could have done something about it; sometimes they couldn't have but the tank in the group could have, however he was too busy beating on a guarded healer in the corner.

 

The vanguard hitting you for 5k with his HiB is DPS geared and speced, has the same amount of health as you, and just as much if not less mitigation when you add in bubbles, punts, speed, and other utility. Yes they can take out a sorc healer 1v1, so can a tank-hybrid shadow, so can a commando or gunslinger (if the sorc does not actively LOS, which is the same as actively kiting the vanguard).

[frankja]

In my experience, a healer can survive one dps attacking him/her indefinitely.

 

As a Rage jugger myself, I can tell you that first big crit takes a lot of set up (about 6 seconds on someone, not necessarily you, so i can see how that could look like a push-a-button-for-a-crit scenario), and the second was probably a lucky crit on a backhand or something. After that, though, the rage jugger has very little in the way of burst for the next 30 seconds or so - even longer if you include trinkets.

 

A healer will survive a dps - the dps simply makes life annoying enough for the healer that he cannot heal anyone else.

 

I'd honestly swing that stick in the other directlon slightly - add lockouts for all heals when you're interrupted, and not just the ability being cast. As it stands the great healers that were able to deke their way into getting big heals off fade into the masses that just spam one heal until it is interrupted, and switch to another.

[Talizzar]

I have a tank and it was ripped apart by a Maurader. Mostly Survivor gear and 4 hits and I was gone. Now this guy is part of a guild know for game altering so who knows. I think there are some real issues with damage output on some classes that need to be looked at.

[frankja]

I have a tank and it was ripped apart by a Maurader. Mostly Survivor gear and 4 hits and I was gone. Now this guy is part of a guild know for game altering so who knows. I think there are some real issues with damage output on some classes that need to be looked at.

 

They're saying a healer guarded by a tank is nigh immortal. Not that tanks are terribly difficult to kill when focused. A tank is a support class in PvP, like a healer.

[warkat]

Your just luck 9/10 Vanguard/Powertechs dont wear battlemaster Commando/mercenary PvP set for the bonus dmg to railshot. Thats how they get the back 2 back 4-5k 10k in 1.5 second burst.

[Chaosmagistrate]

I have a tank and it was ripped apart by a Maurader. Mostly Survivor gear and 4 hits and I was gone. Now this guy is part of a guild know for game altering so who knows. I think there are some real issues with damage output on some classes that need to be looked at.

 

It is simply not possible to duel a Mara and die in 4hits.

 

Now if the Mara had been charging up singularity somewhere else and flew over, dropped a popped Smash for say 5k. Then had the best luck in the world and Slashx3 crit for 3k each, then I can feasibly believe you died in 4 hits.

 

It is simply impossible for a Mara to four-global anyone from scratch.

[Boyana]

 

Do you guys think this is the way it should be?

 

 

I do not and many full healers (healers who heal not those who farm medals) will agree with you.

 

Because of the fact some people think healing is already OP as it is and needs more nerfing, I was thinking about recording duels as well as warzones to show how unfair it is and how wrong they are. However, I am pretty sure if people decided to not believe in what we say, video won't help.

[Abanoth]

One healer with no tank is dead. Get a tank and watch. Even better if your warzone has 2 healers in it with a tank or two. Watch the wins come rolling in.

 

Pretty much this. The days of PvP being dominated by DPS classes with a healer hiding in the back are over. The need for tanks is a little more subtle but it's just as important.

[Hethroin]

Your just luck 9/10 Vanguard/Powertechs dont wear battlemaster Commando/mercenary PvP set for the bonus dmg to railshot. Thats how they get the back 2 back 4-5k 10k in 1.5 second burst.

 

They don't?

 

It's not damage bonus, it's crit rate increase. The commando set has a lot of power and surge, but low crit rate to compensate. You can get a nice mix together, and have a high power/surge rating while at the same time maintaining a decent crit rate. The downfall is that you lose accuracy and your massive 5k crits randomly turn into "deflect" or "cover".

[Kulthiron]

You've focused entirely on crits, and My Commando healer has triple-crit for 11k heals in 3s through trauma, so by that evidence alone, healing is OP...but it's not. Dueling is never a good measure, especially if your experience is from WoW, where healers were the ultimate duelers, well once they fixed the warlock chain fear bs in Vanilla.

 

As far as scaling, I don't know the willpower/healing point conversion, so I can't comment on that.

 

But healers who try to rough it on their own in a warzone by turreting and ignoring any DPS on them tend to die pretty quickly. But a guarded healer who sticks with their group magnifies their team's effectiveness.

 

I tend toward healers on their own are weak, but in a group environment, they are worth more than an additional DPS...up to a point. Six healers, 2 DPS, is funny, but doesnt' really accomplish anything.

 

And if you are heaving problems keeping anyone alive, with a full guard on, and peelers protecting you...either the target you are trying to heal is being focus-fired, and which that means, your guard should transfer their guard and taunt the victim's attackers, or that guy just got opened up by two Operatives, and imploded. An unmolested healer basically can keep almost anyone alive except if the victim is getting chewed apart by three+ players.

 

Thought id adresse what you said in red first, you took basically everything I said out of context in that paragraph. Yes crits is what catches your eye when you are playing the objective and go from full to 30%ish in essentialy two GCDs, when this is followed by Ccs I am almost helpless I did actually make it through that but only because I used my mobility to my advantage and got away.

 

The Wow example was just that an example, I never PvPed anything in Wow past vanilla and did basically zero dueling so take examples for what they are.

 

Point is there is no feasible way outheal or outperform it, I have to draw players away from their jobs to assist me more often then not a guard/ a dps to peel. I essentially have to be a better player then the DPS wailing on me to survive and the issue becomes even more evident when multiple DPS are training you ( In which case you should die if you are totally solo)

 

I by no means rough it on my own, I am in one of the better(if not the best not exactly sure how to rate myself/ourselves) PvP guild on our server and almost always run with a premade, but it feels like damage is becoming harder by the day to compensate for.

 

And to counter what you said in your last paragraph, Com/mercs are by far the most durable healers in this game, bubble that makes you uninterruptable for its duration and several increased healing on self talents & skill(Aoe heal 10% increase afaik)

 

I rely on mobilty and my surrondings to stay alive, I cant take a beating from any class besides my own Sage / Sorc who I can easily interrupt and dot cleanse.

 

Everything I write is from a group perspective btw, hate playing on my own.

[Turn-XGundam]

They don't?

 

It's not damage bonus, it's crit rate increase. The commando set has a lot of power and surge, but low crit rate to compensate. You can get a nice mix together, and have a high power/surge rating while at the same time maintaining a decent crit rate. The downfall is that you lose accuracy and your massive 5k crits randomly turn into "deflect" or "cover".

 

deflect/cover doesn't happen to much, but pt/vanguard firing his trinkets/crit increase ability will wrech havoc. i am not even full cent, i can burst full champ/bm to 45% health from 100%

[snaplemouton]

You've focused entirely on crits, and My Commando healer has triple-crit for 11k heals in 3s through trauma, so by that evidence alone, healing is OP...but it's not.

 

My commando Gunnery can load a 13-14k triple crit in 3 seconds...

Since when should healing be lower then DPSing?

What is the point to being healer if you can't keep anyone alive throught even one DPS...

 

+ that 11k heals can be interrupted and use a 21 seconds CD to do so.

 

A good DPS can always take down a good healer. The only thing that can actually save the healer is LoS. And that won't save him/her from a Sentinel/Juggernaut in watchman/rage spec or Powertech/Vanguard in Rail shot/High impact reset spec.

Because they are not affected by LoS since they never cast.

[snaplemouton]

They don't?

 

It's not damage bonus, it's crit rate increase. The commando set has a lot of power and surge, but low crit rate to compensate. You can get a nice mix together, and have a high power/surge rating while at the same time maintaining a decent crit rate. The downfall is that you lose accuracy and your massive 5k crits randomly turn into "deflect" or "cover".

 

Sorry for double post but I just read this post...

 

Any attack that isn't weapon damage cannot be deflected or covered.

That include Grav Round and Demo round or Tracer missile and whatever the name of the 40 talent for merc.

Which basically make accuracy a near useless stat for commando.

[suppah]

I'm a sith sorc healing spec and in pvp there is no balance for them it is everything i can do just to spam heals and not die. But i usually die. And lets face it in PVP healers are the target. I'm not saying healers should be some kind of gods that never die but if the best i can hope for is to live long enough that a group member comes to help me if just a bit pathetic. And if I'm fighting a class that gets 2-3 stuns forget I"m dead there's nothing I can do about it. I think it should not be in 1v1 pvp that the best u can hope for is to heal spam and pray u get help doesn't exactly make the class all that appealing anymore. But I'm just one mans opinion on the matter so take what you want from it.

[Kulthiron]

This game has no active healing debuff except for one class. Even that has a single target application and a cooldown. Other MMOs have 50% healing debuffs on a number of classes some of which can be applied passively and to a number of targets. As far as managing a balance I feel this game has it, as you are not forced to always have a "X" in your group to apply AE-Healdebuff.

 

The reason why your willpower for healing does not generate as much healing as it does damage, is due to the fact that most damage is mitigated by armor which also has a growth curve.

 

I don't think it is fair to yourself (as a healer) approach group PVP from a "If someone died than I failed" perspective. People are supposed to die in PVP. Some times they could have done something about it; sometimes they couldn't have but the tank in the group could have, however he was too busy beating on a guarded healer in the corner.

 

The vanguard hitting you for 5k with his HiB is DPS geared and speced, has the same amount of health as you, and just as much if not less mitigation when you add in bubbles, punts, speed, and other utility. Yes they can take out a sorc healer 1v1, so can a tank-hybrid shadow, so can a commando or gunslinger (if the sorc does not actively LOS, which is the same as actively kiting the vanguard).

 

You dont neec class X because the game already has a never ending always present nerf on us, balance is not bad overall but when you get dropped from full to half on a regular basis it becomes quite tiresome and downright demoralising playing a healer.

 

And a as healer per definition my job is to prevent people from dying, I never slack off in a Wz I will heal my *** off in everyone to make sure our team can stay alive and get the job done, quite often its frantic you are deciding who to heal and when/ when you should switch back to yourself all this is going in a split second while some random dps goes "derp I take off 70% in a GCD kai?"

 

Sure the Vanguard has the same amount of HP as me but it boils down to the issue of healers not worth having as opposed to running pure DPS teams.

 

And thing is running away is not always feasible, I.E escorting ball carrier, defending door / node. I use directional LoS pretty much every engagement so I am more then familiar with how to play the game/my class but if 1 DPS can beat down 1 healer then having a healer is not worth it since he also needs multiple people to support him, these people are countered by additional DPS and the issue remains.

[Kulthiron]

My commando Gunnery can load a 13-14k triple crit in 3 seconds...

Since when should healing be lower then DPSing?

What is the point to being healer if you can't keep anyone alive throught even one DPS...

 

+ that 11k heals can be interrupted and use a 21 seconds CD to do so.

 

A good DPS can always take down a good healer. The only thing that can actually save the healer is LoS. And that won't save him/her from a Sentinel/Juggernaut in watchman/rage spec or Powertech/Vanguard in Rail shot/High impact reset spec.

Because they are not affected by LoS since they never cast.

 

My point exactly.

 

And FYI not everyone is Commando/Merc healers, arguably one of the more survivable healers atm.

 

imo

[unixbomber]

I do just fine on my sorcerer although I am no longer using a full corruption build; it's good for pve but running a build that allows defensive abilities for myself, in addition to others, works far better.

[Nhaok]

In my experience, a healer can survive one dps attacking him/her indefinitely.

 

You should experience interrupts.

[Acherom]

From the first day I saw the trauma debuff I knew healing was essentially going to be weak.

After playing a full heal spec sorc for a while; my worries were only confirmed.

 

I do less to swing the tide of battle for my team trying to keep a target alive then if I were to be DPS.

 

I can heal with trinkets and adrenals for about 5-6K per big cast (2.5s) or about 1500 / second with the channeled ability.

 

That is a: 2000 / 2400 per second 'swing' in the battle of health bars.

 

Or, I could run 23-18, and every 12 seconds lay out back to back instant cast 5k, aoe attacks.

 

I've had a few voidstar matches that were examples of pure hilarity; a powertech or jugger runs up to the door; the enemy team dog piles on him. Between Smash, Death field, and chain lightning; all of the assaulters keel over and we get the bomb plant.

 

The raw amount of damage output vs healing potential is laughably skewed.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Acherom

[Chaosmagistrate]

Thought id adresse what you said in red first, you took basically everything I said out of context in that paragraph. Yes crits is what catches your eye when you are playing the objective and go from full to 30%ish in essentialy two GCDs, when this is followed by Ccs I am almost helpless I did actually make it through that but only because I used my mobility to my advantage and got away.

 

The Wow example was just that an example, I never PvPed anything in Wow past vanilla and did basically zero dueling so take examples for what they are.

 

Point is there is no feasible way outheal or outperform it, I have to draw players away from their jobs to assist me more often then not a guard/ a dps to peel. I essentially have to be a better player then the DPS wailing on me to survive and the issue becomes even more evident when multiple DPS are training you ( In which case you should die if you are totally solo)

 

I by no means rough it on my own, I am in one of the better(if not the best not exactly sure how to rate myself/ourselves) PvP guild on our server and almost always run with a premade, but it feels like damage is becoming harder by the day to compensate for.

 

And to counter what you said in your last paragraph, Com/mercs are by far the most durable healers in this game, bubble that makes you uninterruptable for its duration and several increased healing on self talents & skill(Aoe heal 10% increase afaik)

 

I rely on mobilty and my surrondings to stay alive, I cant take a beating from any class besides my own Sage / Sorc who I can easily interrupt and dot cleanse.

 

Everything I write is from a group perspective btw, hate playing on my own.

 

Exactly, back2back2back crits happen, and to our own minds, thay happen sufficiently, but in truth they really don't, at least relatively. As humans, we tend to recall the best times and the worst times, and nothing in between...for every back2back2back 11k crit heal/dps chain you did, you probably did 10 non-crits in row, so gibs happen, but that's the nature of /random.

 

As a Watchman Sentinel, against good healers, who kite like mofos, and run around pillar-humping, it can take me anywhere between 30s to NEVER to kill them. 30s is when it's just me chasing them the whole time. Now never usually means they are guarded or are being healed by someone else.

 

That's the best and worst part about being a healer...you need to have a group - and you make the group better(assuming the group is competent), but without support, the healer can be heavily disrupted.

 

I know it's been tough to adjust from WoW where the stupidest healer could beat the best DPS, by virtue of the game design, but in this game it makes it so that if a group protects their healer(s), they have a higher chance of winning.

 

And not to be condescending, and I really mean it, but almost everyone thinks they are good or pretty decent, but there will always be someone better, and may times, it just so happens that better person got the better of you, or maybe his cooldowns are up and yours weren't. In an MMO, PvP, you are supposed to die. Going 59-0 is not necessarily a testament to how good oneself is, but can also be a testament to how crappy the other team is. There are so many variables people forget to take into account like what cooldowns are up or used. maybe the guy had all his cooldowns up, and your bubble wasn't or you had used your force wave earlier, or the guy beating on you got full resolved by some moron Vanguard who grappled and stunned right away.

 

Though, I agree, in PvP, Sages are probably the least durable of the three healer ACs because most of their heals require standing still, but they make up in it for higher kiting and mobility. But a guarded sage is probably the more powerful of the three-once again, the group magnification issue.