Why did Swtor turn into GW2?

[Gorrdan]

lol nope i aint

 

Clearly you are and grasping at straws.

[Hewbaka]

PvP should be about skill and not who has more time to play the game.

 

 

This! and teamplay.

 

WOW pvp is the worst kind of PvP ever.

 

Like a first person shooter everyone has somewaht the same weapons, it should be about skills and tactics, teamplay and not about flavour of the month + gear.

[Scoobings]

People are grasping at straws. Given the condition of pvp in SWTOR it is hilarious to see people trying too hard to find flaws in GW2 PVP.

 

Not saying SWTOR PVP is perfect, because it's far from so. It's also not going to be a hard game to kill at this rate.

 

But seriously. You don't see how every time a new game comes out people talk about it like the second coming of Christ? I bet a year ago you were having this exact conversation about SWTOR. Literally every new MMO has been hyped up like this and I think it's a contributing factor to what kills these games.

 

Also, the console thing is a mistake. You can look to DCUO for evidence on that. MMOs don't belong on consoles and when companies try to cater to consoles they end up making a lot of mistakes that are bad for the game in general.

 

I'm not saying GW2 is going to be bad, for the same reason I think it's laughable for people to be saying "how good" it is when I'm betting most of you haven't played it. It's not out. Let it be what it is when it's released. I hope it's amazing and crushes all MMOs to dust in the wake of it's completely AWESOME pvp. Because, then I'll have a new game to play.

 

Just remember, this exact conversation happens literally every time a new MMO is released and every time it leads to the same result. Every person who comes on here gloating about how "wicked sweet" everything in GW2 will be is just reminding the rest of us how short sighted, and how forgetful humans are of history. Why don't you calm down and give the game (both SWTOR and GW2) a chance to breathe.

[Richoshist]

I love the changes. GO BIOWARE WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[Gorrdan]

Not saying SWTOR PVP is perfect, because it's far from so. It's also not going to be a hard game to kill at this rate.

 

But seriously. You don't see how every time a new game comes out people talk about it like the second coming of Christ? I bet a year ago you were having this exact conversation about SWTOR. Literally every new MMO has been hyped up like this and I think it's a contributing factor to what kills these games.

 

Also, the console thing is a mistake. You can look to DCUO for evidence on that. MMOs don't belong on consoles and when companies try to cater to consoles they end up making a lot of mistakes that are bad for the game in general.

 

I'm not saying GW2 is going to be bad, for the same reason I think it's laughable for people to be saying "how good" it is when I'm betting most of you haven't played it. It's not out. Let it be what it is when it's released. I hope it's amazing and crushes all MMOs to dust in the wake of it's completely AWESOME pvp. Because, then I'll have a new game to play.

 

Just remember, this exact conversation happens literally every time a new MMO is released and every time it leads to the same result. Every person who comes on here gloating about how "wicked sweet" everything in GW2 will be is just reminding the rest of us how short sighted, and how forgetful humans are of history. Why don't you calm down and give the game (both SWTOR and GW2) a chance to breathe.

 

I am not denying that GW2 isn't hyped or people won't be disappointed but when was the last time we got a MMO with 3 faction PVP? DAOC was last of its kind.

 

That is why those who love PVP are excited. it would take a very huge effort to mess up a 3 sided PVP.

 

What is more fun queuing up and waiting for 5 to 10 minutes to join same three warfronts over and over again (since open world PVP in Ilum is broken)... or just instantly enter into open world pvp with 2 other sides without worrying about being not geared up to the task and just siege keeps, kill players and take control of the map?

 

Not too hard to answer i guess.

 

Also, i don't agree that MMOS don't belong to consoles. Only because a company has not done it right doesn't mean it can't be done. If EVE players can enjoy DUST on consoles i am sure GW2 can be enjoyed on consoles too.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Scoobings]

I am not denying that GW2 isn't hyped or people won't be disappointed but when was the last time we got a MMO with 3 faction PVP? DAOC was last of its kind.

 

That is why those who love PVP are excited. it would take a very huge effort to mess up a 3 sided PVP.

 

What is more fun queuing up and waiting for 5 to 10 minutes to join same three warfronts over and over again (since open world PVP in Ilum is broken)... or just instantly enter into open world pvp with 2 other sides without worrying about being not geared up to the task and just siege keeps, kill players and take control of the map?

 

Not too hard to answer i guess.

 

Also, i don't agree that MMOS don't belong to consoles. Only because a company has not done it right doesn't mean it can't be done. If EVE players can enjoy DUST on consoles i am sure GW2 can be enjoyed on consoles too.

 

No it wouldn't though that's my point MMOs are pretty tough to make and balance and the 3 faction system isn't a cure all.

 

About consoles, after thinking about it more maybe it's just the PVE side of MMOs that isn't condusive to consoles. I just remember that DCUO suffered from over-simplified controls (because it had to work on a controller) and the raids were 1-2 hours long (because that's how long people who play consoles sit down for). DCUO, however, still had incredible and pretty revolutionary PVP that I thought was really good. So I suppose you're right, it could work. It's just what I would consider a warning sign.

 

Your final point with ques vs open world is kind of a matter of opinion and also heavily depends on the caliber of the combat and game mechanics such as balance which people don't really know much about because they haven't played. They're making wild assumptions that this game is going to be awesome and they're basing it on features that the developers have allowed to come out.

 

Remember when everyone thought Ilum was going to be awesome because of what the developers were telling us?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Scoobings

[Silwyth]

I am not denying that GW2 isn't hyped or people won't be disappointed but when was the last time we got a MMO with 3 faction PVP? DAOC was last of its kind.

 

That is why those who love PVP are excited. it would take a very huge effort to mess up a 3 sided PVP.

 

What is more fun queuing up and waiting for 5 to 10 minutes to join same three warfronts over and over again (since open world PVP in Ilum is broken)... or just instantly enter into open world pvp with 2 other sides without worrying about being not geared up to the task and just siege keeps, kill players and take control of the map?

 

Not too hard to answer i guess.

 

Also, i don't agree that MMOS don't belong to consoles. Only because a company has not done it right doesn't mean it can't be done. If EVE players can enjoy DUST on consoles i am sure GW2 can be enjoyed on consoles too.

 

I hate to break this to you but there is quite a bit of instanced pvp in GW2.

[Pekish]

GOLD RULE OF MMORPG

 

don't invest time in an MMORPG but play it for fun as it is a game not a career

 

once i learn that one nothing will bother you too much in game

Edited April 5, 2012 by Pekish

[Scoobings]

I hate to break this to you but there is quite a bit of instanced pvp in GW2.

 

I actually really disliked GW1. People called it an MMO but I really disagreed, it was too instanced (I thought).

[AmokBE]

Back in the day ppl were willing to put time into earning gear, sadly now the entitlement generation has started playing mmo's and has ruined WOW and many other games.

The entitlement generation feels they should have everything right now with no work on a silver platter...

 

Hi im 28 years old and have a hard job in construction and a wife i like pvp in mmo's but playtime for me is very scarse , im sick and tired of teenage *****s thinking they are the man cause they spent all their time on some game .

 

I for one am very happy with the state of the game i can log on for 2 hours have some fun and log off again i do not want to log on and chase some high ranked gear for months only to discover once i obtain it its already outdated .

 

If you want a challange or a carrot on a stick do that in you're real life or find an other game !

 

If you are realy good at pvp it does not matter what others get you will still beat them.

 

You are pathetic proving yourself cause 'i did the grind' you should be proving yourself trough your own ability cause that is what pvp is about and theres always pve for you spend months spending dkp on some **** items and then look cool for everyone to see

[Gorrdan]

No it wouldn't though that's my point MMOs are pretty tough to make and balance and the 3 faction system isn't a cure all.

 

About consoles, after thinking about it more maybe it's just the PVE side of MMOs that isn't condusive to consoles. I just remember that DCUO suffered from over-simplified controls (because it had to work on a controller) and the raids were 1-2 hours long (because that's how long people who play consoles sit down for). DCUO, however, still had incredible and pretty revolutionary PVP that I thought was really good. So I suppose you're right, it could work. It's just what I would consider a warning sign.

 

Your final point with ques vs open world is kind of a matter of opinion and also heavily depends on the caliber of the combat and game mechanics such as balance which people don't really know much about because they haven't played. They're making wild assumptions that this game is going to be awesome and they're basing it on features that they've allowed to come out.

 

Remember when everyone thought Ilum was going to be awesome because of what the developers were telling us?

 

DAOC suffered from lots of problems but it is still a lot better then two sided PVP crap that we are getting since then. It must have done something right that people are still enjoying the pvp in that game. So if a new game offers me a 3 sided PVP i will jump on it at first given opportunity. From all the gameplay videos i have seen it runs quite smooth and is not lag fest like Ilum so that is also an improvement. So can't blame people for actually seeing something working smoothly and not get excited about it.

 

I never made any wild assumptions other than that if given an opperunity what will PVP lovers go for, 3 sided open world PVP with no gear checks or instanced warfronts with queues where PVP is mostly about who is wearing better gear.

[DarkDruidSS]

Tired of getting excited for PvP games. They ALWAYS dissappoint since DAoC.

 

Warhammer - Was good till endgame.. then the game fell of the tracks into a small orphange and blew up.... wounding thousands. PvP was far from balanced. AoE was king. End game didn't even function properly until they severely limited players in a zone. They made castle trading the norm with bags given for killing npcs per castle seige.

 

Aion - Was decent until level 30 and you hit the insane wall of exp. The Abyss was buggy as crap.. large scale battles lagged to crap just like Warhammer. Then the PvE carebears were upset about rifts opening so they restricted where you could port through in rifts. PvPers were discouraged from ranking up as getting killed by the enemy lowered your rank. So generals sat in capitals too afraid to step out because they might lose their title/perks.

 

Rift - umm.. nothing really to see here. It tried to copy WoW, but their soul system ruined any chance at having balance in the game. Plus every game type they knew how to implement was some kind of stone running.

 

SWTOR - advertised pvp fell short from initial dev interviews. Ilum was a disaster, but BW is trying to right the ship with 1.2 and then future content to replace Ilum coming... so there is still potential that BW could get it right, but 2 factions makes open world Pvp a task to make fair when all servers are imbalanced beyond control. Time will tell if BW can pull off what's needed to keep PvPers here and happy.

 

GW2 - has potential still, but the more released about it the less appealing it is to many. 3 Faction RvR... interesting concepts. Ultimalety will end up a filler for most MMOers I think. Could still pull out that miracle everyone is hoping for.. we will have to see. If they can pull it off then could potentially live up to the hype that it used to have.

 

TERRA - not very appealing to me, but the combat is different. Hit boxes could be a nightmare. The way you can own towns and stuff is interesting. The game looks pretty. I kinda stopped following it when I lost interest months ago.

 

Dominus - who knows... another 3 faction RvR game.. made by a company new to the market so no one knows them. A lot of the people on the dev team are from DAoC and that era. Using a engine that BW is trying to master. Low budget. No advertising yet. Could be a sleeper or a failure no one hears about.

[Gorrdan]

I hate to break this to you but there is quite a bit of instanced pvp in GW2.

 

i know but it also gives an option for 3 sided WvWvW open world PVP. Options are good isn't it? what other option do we have in SWTOR other than instanced warfront PVP? none.

[Scoobings]

DAOC suffered from lots of problems but it is still a lot better then two sided PVP crap that we are getting since then. It must have done something right that people are still enjoying the pvp in that game. So if a new game offers me a 3 sided PVP i will jump on it at first given opportunity. From all the gameplay videos i have seen it runs quite smooth and is not lag fest like Ilum so that is also an improvement. So can't blame people for actually seeing something working smoothly and not get excited about it.

 

I never made any wild assumptions other than that if given an opperunity what will PVP lovers go for, 3 sided open world PVP with no gear checks or instanced warfronts with queues where PVP is mostly about who is wearing better gear.

 

That's my point. All you've seen is what they're giving you. Did you see any lag in the SWTOR marketing trailers? No. Why would the release a video displaying laggy gameplay?

 

It's a wild assumption to assume it will be awesome and the second coming of MMO Jesus which, not neccesarily you, a lot of people are doing. It's just frustrating to me to see people act so irrationally but I suppose that's the nature of humanity.

 

Also, with instanced vs open world pvp:

 

When I played WoW shortly after release I remember I was really excited about Battlegrounds because it meant even teams. Open world is great and all but there are a lot of problems that come with true open world PVP. So, like I said, we'll see. I just wish people wouldn't hype it up so much because there's just no way it'll live up to expectations and then people will bash it to the ground like they do with every new MMO that comes out.

[Scoobings]

i know but it also gives an option for 3 sided WvWvW open world PVP. Options are good isn't it? what other option do we have in SWTOR other than instanced warfront PVP? none.

 

That's true. BW screwed the pooch there.

[Gorrdan]

That's my point. All you've seen is what they're giving you. Did you see any lag in the SWTOR marketing trailers? No. Why would the release a video displaying laggy gameplay?

 

It's a wild assumption to assume it will be awesome and the second coming of MMO Jesus which, not neccesarily you, a lot of people are doing. It's just frustrating to me to see people act so irrationally but I suppose that's the nature of humanity.

 

Also, with instanced vs open world pvp:

 

When I played WoW shortly after release I remember I was really excited about Battlegrounds because it meant even teams. Open world is great and all but there are a lot of problems that come with true open world PVP. So, like I said, we'll see. I just wish people wouldn't hype it up so much because there's just no way it'll live up to expectations and then people will bash it to the ground like they do with every new MMO that comes out.

 

The big difference between GW2 videos and SWTOR video is that SWTOR videos were controlled where as in GW2 you see actual player videos and not just clearly cut and paste videos by the companies. So when i see huge number of players doing PVP and everything running smoothly i tend to believe it.

 

Totalbiscuits is a very fair guy and his videos are very popular and he covers all the MMOS before release. So when people like him upload videos yeah i would believe it.

[Silwyth]

I actually really disliked GW1. People called it an MMO but I really disagreed, it was too instanced (I thought).

 

Yea its not as instanced as GW1 was. About as much as SWTOR actually, although there are lots of back forth quests that can get pretty annoying (the game seems to hate AMD).

[DarkDruidSS]

The big difference between GW2 videos and SWTOR video is that SWTOR videos were controlled where as in GW2 you see actual player videos and not just clearly cut and paste videos by the companies. So when i see huge number of players doing PVP and everything running smoothly i tend to believe it.

 

Totalbiscuits is a very fair guy and his videos are very popular and he covers all the MMOS before release. So when people like him upload videos yeah i would believe it.

 

On your GW2... that isn't exactly true. If you look at DCUO vids they had "actual players" in the vids and it looked a lot better than it turn out... almost like your were looking at 2 different products. It would be nice if GW2 runs like the vids I have seen, but until it comes out we don't know for sure. I'm skeptical... not crying foul here.

Edited April 5, 2012 by DarkDruidSS

[Stenrik]

I got a PM in January making it clear to me that cross server wouldn't be ready before 2013. So like you said... they can have a nice time wating for it.

 

Wait, what? A PM? From who? lol

Because I heard it was going to come "in 1.2" meaning "1.2.X."

You really think we aren't going to get 1.3 until after 2013?

[Gorrdan]

Also i would like to point out here that till release people had very little information about ILUM and its PVP where as there are loads of videos for GW2 Mist area. Edited April 5, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Minkypuss]

Playing casually aka 1-2 hours a night won't get you full champion gear in 2 weeks. Believe it or not, there are people who aren't lucky enough to win items from the stupid champion bags. Going on 70+ bags between my Merc and Jugg with ZERO items but commendations so far.

 

^^

Totally agree, I have been doing 1-2 hours/night for 2 weeks and I have all of three pieces (plus 2 relics) and one of those was from a champion bag. Sorry for your bad luck, and I thought my luck was bad.

[Swidgin]

All gear worthless since its all freebie come 1.2...Who wants to pay a monthly sub for no progression just welfare for all? PvP just lost its carrot on a stick thanks for killing this game faster than Rift BW....

 

IT'S PRESEASON..........So much QQ & Fail in these forums!

[TUXs]

Also i would like to point out here that till release people had very little information about ILUM and its PVP where as there are loads of videos for GW2 Mist area.

 

I think all the hype over GW2 is comical because NO GAME will live up to the hype that inerds give a game these days.

 

What Bioware pulled with Ilum and the absolute after thought the zone obviously was, the minimal internal testing they did, the bugs, the lack of anything 'exciting' to do, the complete ignoring of the promised 'world pvp' infuriates me...I won't play GW2, I hate that fantasy setting and cash shop games...but I also have little doubt GW2 PvP will be much better than the crap we have. Geezus...honestly, how could it POSSIBLY be worse?!

 

Bioware needs to get busy with PvP in THIS game. It should be their focus IMO...especially over the worthless cosmetic Legacy crap they're hyping.

[DarkDruidSS]

I think all the hype over GW2 is comical because NO GAME will live up to the hype that inerds give a game these days.

 

What Bioware pulled with Ilum and the absolute after thought the zone obviously was, the minimal internal testing they did, the bugs, the lack of anything 'exciting' to do, the complete ignoring of the promised 'world pvp' infuriates me...I won't play GW2, I hate that fantasy setting and cash shop games...but I also have little doubt GW2 PvP will be much better than the crap we have. Geezus...honestly, how could it POSSIBLY be worse?!

 

Bioware needs to get busy with PvP in THIS game. It should be their focus IMO...especially over the worthless cosmetic Legacy crap they're hyping.

 

I agree. I would rather play THIS GAME. BioWare just needs to fix their PvP. I think they are on the right track.

 

In beta... late beta I ran to Ilum on my level 18 sin... it was a dead zone. I mean theiy didn't even have the walkers and stuff in yet. I was thinking to myself then... When are we going to test Ilum?... never saw that happen. I don't think it was externally tested at all. There was supposed to be PvP lakes on each planet. Mercenary tokens were supposed to be the Open World pvp currency. Maybe BW is still working on all that and 1.3 will be amazing.

[Gorrdan]

I think all the hype over GW2 is comical because NO GAME will live up to the hype that inerds give a game these days.

 

What Bioware pulled with Ilum and the absolute after thought the zone obviously was, the minimal internal testing they did, the bugs, the lack of anything 'exciting' to do, the complete ignoring of the promised 'world pvp' infuriates me...I won't play GW2, I hate that fantasy setting and cash shop games...but I also have little doubt GW2 PvP will be much better than the crap we have. Geezus...honestly, how could it POSSIBLY be worse?!

 

Bioware needs to get busy with PvP in THIS game. It should be their focus IMO...especially over the worthless cosmetic Legacy crap they're hyping.

 

It could be worse for one simple reason that open world PVP for two faction is very hard to get right. No MMO has been successful so far. I will take open world 3 side skill based PVP over gear based instanced PVP matches any day.