Bio says no to macros at Guild Summit.

[SDTAXantos]

Bioware doesn't like to work.

 

Neither do the people who rely heavily on macros to auto chain abilities they would otherwise have to use 2 or more keys to push.

Edited March 15, 2012 by SDTAXantos

[Bellyr]

You can Make Makros with a Logitech G510, G13,G15,G19

[Malsidius]

Combat macros ARE a good thing! Consider it 'honing your skills' or some such way of wrapping your brain around it. Its a way to take your character to the next level. The game allows for character progression is most other ways, why not this. If someone so chooses, he/she may invest the time into creating or researching a macro set for combat that will allow them to reach new heights. Really its just an extension of clickers vs keyboarders; now its clickers vs keyboarders with a splash of macroers.

 

Don't fear what you're incapable of, embrace it and possibly learn a thing or two along the way.

[Monkar]

Neither do the people who rely heavily on macros to auto chain abilities they would otherwise have to use 2 or more keys to push.

 

What is most amusing is I can confidently outplay players without macro's. That however isn't pertinent at all, what is, is that you are effectively arguing against a quality of life increase, while I still outperform you.

 

I will still be better than you regardless of our QoL, you might as well make the game tolerable with assist, stopcasting, focus, off the GCD abilities, and mouseover macros.

 

(Notice nowhere in there were any auto-casting sequence macros? Using those generally gimps your dps.)

[TheRainstater]

Doesn't any one take pride in skill these days or has WoW really made this many players dependent on having Macros in order to play the game well.

 

The difference between making key stoke errors and not making them. The difference between targeting the right target and the wrong target. The difference between knowing what skills to use when, is what separates the good players from the bad.

[Khyler]

It was pretty much said that there will be no macros anytime soon if ever at the guild summit. It seems part of the Dev team hates macros and does not want them in game.

 

But, they did say there will be some things in game that will help healers and such. What that means who knows they did not explain it very well.

Which i think this is a good thing.

 

Didn't BW also say they wanted to compete with WoW? BW better come up with an idea better than macros, else there is no competing. I personally don't like WoW, but, I will admit, WoW has the best macro system going of any MMO.

[TheRainstater]

Combat macros ARE a good thing! Consider it 'honing your skills' or some such way of wrapping your brain around it. Its a way to take your character to the next level. The game allows for character progression is most other ways, why not this. If someone so chooses, he/she may invest the time into creating or researching a macro set for combat that will allow them to reach new heights. Really its just an extension of clickers vs keyboarders; now its clickers vs keyboarders with a splash of macroers.

 

Don't fear what you're incapable of, embrace it and possibly learn a thing or two along the way.

 

Using a macro is not "honing your skills" using a macro is lowering the amount of skill needed.

[Chewpaco]

I enjoy seeing you make a fool of yourself, so even if you keep shutting your eyes when I show you that red isn't blue, I'll keep pointing it out.

 

Unless you tell the macro which specific target you want it cast on via either "/target Chewpaco" or "@self" it is still just as much up to the player to select the right target

In fact, macroes can increase your chances for mistargetting AND the price of failure.

 

Hitting a key is in no way related to the number of keys available for you to hit, it is entirely reliant on your precision.

Otherwise you'd have at least a 1/104(A minimum of 104 keys on a standard US keyboard if I recall) to hit the right key for every letter/number/sign/functionkey you press to put out a post 805 keypresses for the exact post I quoted, at the least.That makes the probability of you typing your post without hitting a wrong key at least once:

(1/104)^805 = 1,941609393667862139247965723608e-1624

(yeah, move the comma 1624 places to the right of where it is, in case you aren't familiar with scientific numerical representations)

 

 

 

 

But wait, that's a rediculously low chance isn't it?

Writing the 74 pages paper I had to turn in at the end of my basic coding course would be astronomically unlikely to have come about in the timespan I wrote it in.

 

Lucky for me, I can see what key I'm aiming for, and that the "Mathemeatical law!" of "Probability" you keep spouting about doesn't apply to a situation like that as it doesn't account for the right factors.

 

-Tophat-troll

 

So you are telling me that healers that are assigned to MT heals don't use a /target Chewpaco macro? Then set a macro to focus boss as target for possible interrupts or added dps?

 

You are telling me with a straight face - that this isn't exactly what healers assigned to MT heals do, while they also may add some dps? You are telling me dedicated healers in PvP scenarios don't do this? Please get real, and stop with the lies.

 

so of your 104 possible keybinds - is it safe to say, that if you were using a standard keyboard, that a plausible set up would be for your 26 most used would be ( ` through =) and then either shift, ctl, or alt - whichever you prefer, (~ through +)?

 

If we use that scenario - and allow 2 skills to be bound to every one of those 13 keys, and never have the need to hit the modifier of ctl, shift, or alt and have the computer interperet our intentions, based on harm/heal conditions that we would experience the same frequency of errors? Not a chance.

 

Why? Because you are eliminating a key stroke. You don't ever give yourself the opportunity to make the error.

 

Please tell me again how foolish I look - keep sticking your head in the sand, and ignore the fact that when you eliminate keystrokes, you eliminate the possiblity for error.

[Monkar]

Using a macro is not "honing your skills" using a macro is lowering the amount of skill needed.

 

Actually, overuse of macros actually has the potential to lower dps. It just makes things more efficient some of the time. Lets look at an example.

 

If I have a macro bound to my opener that also pops my relic when I am actually not trying to score a kill but just controlling a player would be a waste, similarly opening on a mob prior to an ops wide CD being used would cause a desync of abilities. That being said, when that opportunity comes up, not having to mash three buttons at once to blow your load doesn't decrease skill, I already know what I am going to do, it just allows you to properly line things up.

 

Similarly, if you think targeting in this game is anywhere near acceptable, I am at a loss for words.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Monkar

[Bashindwarf]

You can Make Makros with a Logitech G510, G13,G15,G19

 

You are correct, and BW has responded that scripting hardware macros on gaming keyboards is against the TOS.

[Adacian]

good, no combat macros

[SDTAXantos]

What is most amusing is I can confidently outplay players without macro's. That however isn't pertinent at all, what is, is that you are effectively arguing against a quality of life increase, while I still outperform you.

 

I will still be better than you regardless of our QoL, you might as well make the game tolerable with assist, stopcasting, focus, off the GCD abilities, and mouseover macros.

 

(Notice nowhere in there were any auto-casting sequence macros? Using those generally gimps your dps.)

 

That is a cool story, but having a brain and using E,S,D,F as your movement keys and binding abilities around them is easier, again, for people who can memorize many things. You are pretty arrogant, and come off as a ****, but that is okay, because I can too, and my brain is better, and skill is greater. Do you have carpal tunnel? Are you missing a hand? That would be a decent argument. Generalize about being better, because anyone who is coming off as the next christ at gaming should probably post some videos of the "mad skillz" you possess. Also, where did you buy your ego?

Edited March 15, 2012 by SDTAXantos

[Grunnd]

Honestly just being able to tie by Relic on-use and my other off-the-GCD DPS cooldowns together so they are popped at the same time would be the only thing I would use macros for.

 

In WoW this was the only real use of macros for me. Being able to sync those different abilities to pop at the same time would allow for a much cleaner and efficient burst phase in PvP or allow me to do maximum potential on a burn phase on a boss.

 

Macros are not bad at all. The only one I believe is poisonous is the /castsequence macros. These should never be allowed, but being able to tie a couple difference off-GCD abilities to one keybind to free up some space would allow for a much smoother experience.

[Khyler]

you understand nothing...

 

gold sellers are already in game so why don't make them legit? same as macro who is doing it is CHEATING that's not a good reason to make it legit.

 

who is buying gold have an advantage as well as the one that use macro cheating is in fact gaining advantage in a way that is agaisnt the rule

 

but because a person cheat you dont have to allow everybody to do so.

 

You lost your argument here. You see, gold selling/buying is, by the TOS, forbidden. Use of macros, because you have one of the keypads/keyboards that is programmable, is not forbidden. Thus, players using them are not cheating.

[Chewpaco]

Honestly just being able to tie by Relic on-use and my other off-the-GCD DPS cooldowns together so they are popped at the same time would be the only thing I would use macros for.

 

In WoW this was the only real use of macros for me. Being able to sync those different abilities to pop at the same time would allow for a much cleaner and efficient burst phase in PvP or allow me to do maximum potential on a burn phase on a boss.

 

Macros are not bad at all. The only one I believe is poisonous is the /castsequence macros. These should never be allowed, but being able to tie a couple difference off-GCD abilities to one keybind to free up some space would allow for a much smoother experience.

 

Thank you -

 

An honest assessment of macros from a pro macro user. You admit they will boost your performance. That is all I ever asked for. They boost performance, close skill gaps between players, by simplifying combat.

[xirinia]

You are correct, and BW has responded that scripting hardware macros on gaming keyboards is against the TOS.

 

And then they endorsed a macro mouse

[TheRainstater]

That being said, when that opportunity comes up, not having to mash three buttons at once to blow your load doesn't decrease skill, I already know what I am going to do, it just allows you to properly line things up.

 

Similarly, if you think targeting in this game is anywhere near acceptable, I am at a loss for words.

 

Actually it does decrease skill. If you cant learn to time your skills or set up key binds that will allow you to fire off your skills quickly, efficiently and in the right order than it's your own fault. Having to set up a Macro to do it for you shows you do not have the confidence that you can do it correctly and consistently. You have become dependent on macros.

 

TAB targeting sucks in every game that has it. I like most competitive PvP'ers can target not only with TAB, but with my mouse... I know hard to think about having to actually target stuff but there was a time even TAB targeting didn't exist.

 

The day they add combat Macros is the day skill based competitive PvP dies in SWTOR and is replaced with unskilled button mashing Macro PvP. A players skill will be tossed out the window and replaced with who can wright the best Macros.

[Grunnd]

The day they add combat Macros is the day skill based competitive PvP dies in SWTOR and is replaced with unskilled button mashing Macro PvP. A players skill will be tossed out the window and replaced with who can wright the best Macros.

 

Oh you mean how gaming mice/keyboards did the same thing?

 

Whoever has the easiest keybinds wins, player skill is irrelevant. A player forced to use two or more modifiers is at a supreme disadvantage to those who only have to use one or none at all.

[Atomicfever]

Well, ultimately the "no macros/macros bad" crowd have lost the argument since hardware already allows for all the evils of automation that they want to say is wrong. Actually, it's made worse with hardware macros since they usually allow you to fully script out your actions.

 

Wow blocked the use of timers and delays on their macros, so you couldn't hit one button, cast an ability, then wait for the gcd and then launch the next logical followup ability, which resulted in true automation. Most hardware will allow for such scripting, so I guess we can all take you at your word that you are not pre-programming your scripts on your $300+ worth of gaming equipment.

 

While I don't like the idea of botting, or macros that script your actions in combat, I wonder how awful would it be to allow macros in the game?

 

What about modifier commands? Is there really a difference between having your 1 - 10 keys do one thing, while having shift+ 1- 10 do another? Anyone want to do the math on the probability of error for the difference between having 20 keys set or 2x 10 key macros?

 

Is there really a big difference between tab targeting, hot key targeting, and setting up a macro for target closest? Does it matter if you can pre-program your mouse to target closest with one of it's buttons or do the real gamers only hit tab? Are there really any gamers out there playing SW that can't handle "hit tab, then hit X" that they become unnaturally skilled when they can "hit x to target and cast Y on target" with one button?

 

The argument is moot, since they are already selling the licensed hardware... which makes me wonder if the whole "no macro" argument from BW is based on promoting the sale of $139.99 gaming mice and $149.99 gaming keyboards.

[lokivoid]

It seems part of the Dev team hates macros and does not want them in game.QUOTE]

 

Quite the opposite, they stated in a interview that they did not hate addons or macros, going on to say they want to put them in the game however they are on the back burner

 

The reason is the engine only supports Flash API for all GUI elements, Not exactly something supports modular plugin's or a macro scripting language. So the only way to implament addons or macros without ending up with resource hungry bloatware is to scrap the GUI API for a lightweight language.

[DarkCarnage]

if BW really wanted to they can easily find who macro-ing in a few misn due to their aduiting software they use. ok look at players that are above x curve.. now look at their attack patterns.. do they have the to the sec timing? all they time? odds are it a programmed attack routine..warn/kick/ban. done.

no human can have the same rotations donw pat 100% of the time, sadly we have issues as living being of being off at times lol.

[TheRainstater]

Oh you mean how gaming mice/keyboards did the same thing?

Thats like saying that faster internet, better graphics cards, larger monitors, more ram and faster hard drives wrecked competitive PvP.

 

Whoever has the easiest keybinds wins, player skill is irrelevant. A player forced to use two or more modifiers is at a supreme disadvantage to those who only have to use one or none at all.

 

Sorry but Key binds do not automate game play. IF a player is unable to use their key binds efficiently they should try new ones. Practice makes perfect not scripting.

[Lularapio]

While macros are good for most players, there is a big issue and I believe thats the main concern of bioware about this: macros can lead to a lot of abuse in game, be it socially or mechanic.

 

Since this game engine is bad as I've seen it reported by many players around, I would only assume macros would allow exploiting the game even more. They probably will do anything in their powers to avoid people ruining a game that isn't even 6 months old.

[ferroz]

Using a macro is not "honing your skills" using a macro is lowering the amount of skill needed.

nah, it's just using a different type of skill.

[Monkar]

Actually it does decrease skill. If you cant learn to time your skills or set up key binds that will allow you to fire off your skills quickly, efficiently and in the right order than it's your own fault. Having to set up a Macro to do it for you shows you do not have the confidence that you can do it correctly and consistently. You have become dependent on macros.

 

TAB targeting sucks in every game that has it. I like most competitive PvP'ers can target not only with TAB, but with my mouse... I know hard to think about having to actually target stuff but there was a time even TAB targeting didn't exist.

 

The day they add combat Macros is the day skill based competitive PvP dies in SWTOR and is replaced with unskilled button mashing Macro PvP. A players skill will be tossed out the window and replaced with who can wright the best Macros.

 

If you think pvp is more skilled with the current PvP system then you pretty much throw all of your credibility out the window. Tab is bad. Click targeting is near impossible with the frequent window rescaling due to a horrible camera system. Is it a surprise pvp is dominated by classes that can abuse the y axis?

 

Off target however, I can do it either way, it is just silly to make life miserable for

everyone so you can scream from your mountaintop about making your game less pure.